Do the Freemasons preserve arcane mystical and occult knowledge in their rituals?

Originally posted by akilles
Yeah, I am see-sawing between whether it is just a bad, or a completely inappropriate, joke for a mod to be making.

You don't see me joking that the Freemasons gave Stephen Knight brain cancer.

akilles, damn, I'm waiting for the outcome of your decision. This will effect the rest of my day.

[edit on 13-3-2005 by intrepid]

I thought you would atleast say your joke was tasteful.

Or somehow explain barging into a thread to throw it off track with a bad joke.

I mean, didn't you just make your position perfectly clear? If someone suggests a few Freemasons are bad, they need proof. This means we are limited to examining history in respect to Freemasonry.

Can you say, not focusing on the present?

Originally posted by akilles
Or somehow explain barging into a thread to throw it off track with a bad joke.

I can't believe you actually said this. To quote from a Airplane, "Irony, it can be quite ironic".

To expain, I was in agreement with Blackguards post, and thank you for the post BG, it was my point. I was posting like a certain member here, guess it touched a nerve.

Originally posted by Trinityman

Cecil J. Rhodes - was he a freemason? Judge him by the morality of the time, not by later standards.

Please.

That's nothing but a copout and justification for devilishment.

Roosevelt (thanks for the Fed) - what???

I believe he's referring to the unconstitutional Federal Reserve.

Though I myself am not sure what role Roosevelt had regarding it.




Peace

Lets just say not everything with ol' FDR was 'Rosey'

FDR ultimately was a traitor manipulated by "World Money" and motivated by conceit and personal ambition.

FDR's main perfidy was suppressing information about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, at the cost of almost 3,000 lives. He did this because the bankers needed US involvement in WWII, something 85% of Americans opposed. The Japanese had instructions to call off the attack if they lost the element of surprise.

Money, power, control. He traded the nation's future for his own. First, we have to recognize that monopoly capital has an affinity with Communism. Both are enemies of competition and freedom.

Is Freemasonry not the largest, richest, most powerful secret society in the world? Wouldn't anyone controlling Freemasonry be even more powerful?

People tell me I don't know what goes on in a Lodge, isn't the argument reversible? Can you honestly say you have run a Lodge? So then you have just seen a Lodge run? Exactly.

Originally posted by akilles
[silly nonsensical garbage snipped]
Wouldn't anyone controlling Freemasonry be even more powerful?

Could be. That's why NO ONE "controls" Freemasonry. There is not, nor has there ever been ONE individual who governed or "controlled" Freemasonry...nor has there ever been one GROUP or organization of men who "controlled" it.

You just don't get it ol troll.....and I doubt you ever will. So keep on spreading your misinformation and slanderous lies. We'll keep refuting them.

Deny ignorance. Deny akilles. Same thing.

(deleted accidental double post)

[edit on 13-3-2005 by senrak]

It certainly couldn't be controlled if it was transparent, thats for sure.

And I am certain that individual masons are never given orders.

You only do what is best for yourself, and in certain instances this benefits other Masons and yourself disproportionately. So what.

Who would do anything that didn't benefit themselves first and foremost, this is certainly not one of Freemasonry's teachings.

Again, another use for Freemasonry would be to act as a front, that is ultimately innocent, as all members here will attest. Thereby attaching a dirty criminal to an innocent org, the individual is deemed innocent, or at the very least, acted with good intentions.

So it works both ways, people are 'evil' by default (as you people accuse 'anti masons' of existing and believing in), or they are all good, and there are a few rotten apples in every barrel.

Hello, ANY good intel group would use a membership that size to conceal activities of its better connected members (ie. you have criminal contacts, so you join Masonry to make it look like you are a legitimate businessman, I am not talking blue collar crime).

Freemasons are obviously used to divert attention from the real power, but because you refuse to admit ANY influence, its not something you will be realizing any time soon.

Originally posted by akilles
Freemasons are obviously used to divert attention from the real power, but because you refuse to admit ANY influence, its not something you will be realizing any time soon.

What's obvious akilles is that you're a pitiful, paranoid, lonely individual. I really wish you had some friends to play with.

I'm glad, however, that you're such an expert on Freemasonry. I'll bet somewhere out there in cyber-land there's someone who'll actually believe your pathetic rantings.

Speaking of rantings...where's ol' greensleeves, or whatever his name is. I haven't seen any of his dribble in a while, and I'm oh so tired of akilles'

I would call myself more of an expert on deception, influence, you know, power-seeking behavior that often gets veiled.

But hey, if you think I am caught up on your brotherhood, all the power to ya. This is nothing more than research, my friend, and you have been a willing participant.

You have done your research, I have done mine.

Are you suggesting power does not lie in the hands of the few, but that power by definition is the masses?

Once he knew what he really was,he looked around at other humans and the rest of nature,and he was amazed at what he saw.
and he relized that everyone was dreaming,but without awareness,without knowing what they really are

we are living in a world of billions of our kind who dont know they are dreaming.everyone is also participating in a bigger dream,a society dream..and i feel your retinas have you all so lost in the dream....clear the smoke.
rid the parasite from with in you all

the reasoning mind creates the illusion of time and space to justify the dream in our mind ,thinking is dreaming with a language:it is nothing but the effort of the mind to justufy the dream.,time and space are illusions,they are in the virtual reality..all that exist is the here and now..

why do you all choose to live in the past and the future..none of it is here..

distort your perceptions,have this dream end now

what an incredible relief

Originally posted by akilles
I would call myself more of an expert on deception, influence, you know, power-seeking behavior that often gets veiled.

I don't know about the rest, but you've certainly got deception down pat!

But hey, if you think I am caught up on your brotherhood, all the power to ya. This is nothing more than research, my friend, and you have been a willing participant.

Well, thanks ol' Pal! You don't know what that means to me. (Really...you don't)

You have done your research, I have done mine.

Too bad you haven't researched legitimate Masonic information, though.

Are you suggesting power does not lie in the hands of the few, but that power by definition is the masses?

I never said anything of the sort. Quite a bit of power DOES lie in the hands of the few. But it doesn't lie in the hands of Freemasonry. Freemasonry is a fraternity. Some powerful world leaders may have been Freemasons and some may BE Freemasons, but there are probably some of them that are Methodists, Presbyterians, etc. etc. and the power doesn't lie in the organization to which they belong.

But go ahead and think that about Freemasonry if you like. In a way I sort of like the idea of you thinking I'm part of some world-wide conspiracy.. ...sort of a James Bond kind of thing...

Originally posted by senrak

Are you suggesting power does not lie in the hands of the few, but that power by definition is the masses?

I never said anything of the sort. Quite a bit of power DOES lie in the hands of the few. But it doesn't lie in the hands of Freemasonry. Freemasonry is a fraternity. Some powerful world leaders may have been Freemasons and some may BE Freemasons, but there are probably some of them that are Methodists, Presbyterians, etc. etc. and the power doesn't lie in the organization to which they belong.

Id like to add to that by saying that, even though POLITICAL and ECONOMIC power DOES lie in the hands of (relatively) few, the same cannot be said of Freemasonry. In the fraternity, power lies in the hands of all Master Masons. That's why its a FRATERNITY. Think what you want, Akilles. But I dont think any mason here has ever felt like he did not have a voice in the organization.

And if you're gonna say we're being deceived to believe that, save it. You think you're more astute and wise than most masons? Yeah right. You can't fool all the people all the time.

[edit on 13-3-2005 by sebatwerk]

This really isn't about Freemasonry as much as it is about what role Freemasonry plays, in the global game of chess.

I mean, this is asking the very question of if it is possible to be involved in a conspiracy unknowingly, or does this defeat the definition of conspiracy.

Cecil Rhodes was a Mason, and he exposed the meaning of the 33 degree, which in my opinion is a false expose, but hey, there's no one here that can say one way or another, right?

He did not have kind things to say of Masonry in general, although he did copy the operation of the society when he founded his Round Table. You might want to look into that, he's an example of someone bad who is given credibility by being attached to Freemasonry, credibility that should have been severed oh so long ago.

Originally posted by akilles
This really isn't about Freemasonry as much as it is about what role Freemasonry plays, in the global game of chess.

I mean, this is asking the very question of if it is possible to be involved in a conspiracy unknowingly, or does this defeat the definition of conspiracy.

My take on it is this:

If it's one tiny group within freemasonry that is in on a conspiracy, then you really cannot blame Freemasonry at large. While you CAN be a part of a conspiracy without knowing it (as long as SOMEONE knows it and knows they are using others for their own means), it's just not possible to coax so many people for so long. If it's just one group of masons who are commiting some kind of conspiracy, then the fact that they are Freemasons doesn't even apply. They are just a group of people, who happen to be masons, commiting a crime.

Even if they were using Freemasonry to cover their tracks, this still isn't Freemasonry's fault, doing or involvement. You can only blame that one group and can even say that they used Freemasonry for their own means. but Freemasonry still is what it is: a global fraternity which teaches and motivates its members to be the best person they can be. Look at the norm, not the exceptions.

i just love the virtual reality that the retinas along with the reasoning mind has created over such a long period of time..the whole world has gone mad..
when will it all wake up a relize it is dreaming, and master the dream.

looking through my keywhole

i dont "think" i see any one with knowledge of mysticiciam..however ya spell it. reflecting here ,that what they hold..do you hold it..really

perhaps ya dropped it along the way..
thats ok..perhaps you can pick up where you left off..we never lose a level..
are you all being amused.
love the drama a power trips..

the collective dream of the planet has got to stop
your all so caught up in illusion..the world has carried this dream of our fathers on to long..
your looking to dam hard for answers..
your thinking to much and its based on what your told.

we are the creators..lets create rather than destroy and belittle and and and.
the parasite with in...

it would be a great day when the military had to hold a bake sale for weapons and creativity had all it needed..

Originally posted by akilles
People tell me I don't know what goes on in a Lodge, isn't the argument reversible? Can you honestly say you have run a Lodge? So then you have just seen a Lodge run? Exactly.

Woah there trollboy!!! Less of the "exactly". You haven't proven a point, because I've seen how a Lodge is run. I've been involved in the running of a Lodge. I've read the book, seen the movie and got the T-shirt.
Every Lodge is run by it's own members. There isn't someone from outside who secretly does our paperwork or sneakily helps himself to the beer from the bar when our back is turned. We have an office called Secretary. He's the guy who makes the Lodge tick in conjunction with a couple of other officers. He'll liase with the Treasurer, the Almoner and all of the other officers who help to make a Freemason's Lodge what it is. Everything goes through the Secretary first. He runs it. He is the Numero Uno. The Big Cheese. The Head Honcho. He knows what's going on. If you've got a good Secretary he also knows what's going on everywhere else. And guess what?
He's one of us. A member of our own Lodge.

Originally posted by greenmansmind
i just love the virtual reality that the retinas along with the reasoning mind has created over such a long period of time..the whole world has gone mad..
when will it all wake up a relize it is dreaming, and master the dream.

looking through my keywhole

i dont "think" i see any one with knowledge of mysticiciam..however ya spell it. reflecting here ,that what they hold..do you hold it..really

perhaps ya dropped it along the way..
thats ok..perhaps you can pick up where you left off..we never lose a level..
are you all being amused.
love the drama a power trips..

the collective dream of the planet has got to stop
your all so caught up in illusion..the world has carried this dream of our fathers on to long..
your looking to dam hard for answers..
your thinking to much and its based on what your told.

we are the creators..lets create rather than destroy and belittle and and and.
the parasite with in...

it would be a great day when the military had to hold a bake sale for weapons and creativity had all it needed..

Well...ol' greenman's on an acid-trip again.

Thanks greenman for sharing . . . well whatever that was you just shared. It adds SO much to the thread and the forum as a whole. I'm sure you consider yourself to be quite an intellectual. I wonder if anyone else does.

sigh....

Oh I dunno.
Put it to the right tune and I reckon it would be pretty catchy.