Heroin, the scourge of society, how do we fix it?

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Amazing how law can be so different from place to place... Assuming this happens, the cops show in America they have sting operations to catch prostitutes, to me that's like WTF is that what it is to live on the land of the free..

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

The more I read on ATS the more I don't believe they are the land of the free.
Jail time for cannabis?! WTF? You don't even get a caution for personal possesion in my parts anymore, and if you grow, 9 plants or less doesn't even land you in court.
Cops here are often more like social workers these days when dealing with addicts. They know full well that arresting them is not going to stop their addiction.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Different sort of use though, isn't it?

Yea, you're probably right.
I know quite a few relatively wealthy people but none of the titled rich and the elite sorts.

The vast majority of people I know who do coke are recreational users who are working and can quite easily afford their use. The street bagheads and crack heads are a different story and as has been said will do anything to fund their next fix.
It's so easy for them to get a £10 bag or a £25 rock and it simply controls every aspect of their existence.

Yes, they deserve a certain level of empathy, but I know a few who have been offered every assistance possible, done the rehab thing etc but they nearly all eventually creep back to their previous lifestyle.
Some of these people have come from loving backgrounds with no history of abuse, neglect etc....unfortunately for many its all they've ever known.

...... but in general, having a job, a future and feeling like you are getting along a bit is pretty much a cure for most of society's ills)

But still people want that head change, be it alcohol, weed, coke whatever.....
I'm certainly not advocating illegal drub use just stating it as I see it.

One things for certain; current policies aren't working.

originally posted by: Freeborn
One things for certain; current policies aren't working.

This ^^^
...and the dealers keep making their money out of the addicts. Something needs to change, but I don't know the answers, wish I did.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

The thing is, the local dealer who does a few bags here and there is a total irrelevance in the grand scheme of things.

Its the one's at the top of the food chain that the authorities should concentrate on.....but the local dealers are easy pickings and do wonders for the targets police forces are forced to meet.
For every local street dealer locked up two will replace them.

And there's always the possibility that the people funding and gaining most of the profit from the illegal drug trade are joined together at the hip with senior law makers, police and other elites.

a reply to: Freeborn

For every local dealer replaced by two will met equally by 2 police in a self perpetuating cycle.

a reply to: Freeborn

I agree. I imagine at the top end of the food chain they are all mates anyway. Turning blind eyes or making money from each other's criminal activity.
The 'silk road' never really stopped for opium did it.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

To be honest the local police tend to leave the street dealers alone, except when their numbers are down and they need to improve their Solved Crimes statistics.

Then there's grasses; dealers who have an agreement with the local police. They inform on other dealers in return for certain amount of immunity.

A few years ago we had a new head of the local police force. He was a bit of a god botherer and decided to clean up the local drug scene. He clamped down on street dealing and started raiding pubs. Hardly anyone was caught; as soon as the police neared one pub calls were made and every dealer / user was informed straight away and took the necessary precautions.
Policing costs raised alarmingly - local Bobbies were over the moon with the amount of overtime they were getting - arrests actually went down and the Head Copper was replaced within months and the status quo returned.

This is going to sound ridiculous, but these are complex and dynamicnl socia issues that all, IMHO, need to be tackled all at once and the system HAS to be out there.

What if there was an agency that was funded to target homeless and through specialized teams, identify local addicts, bring them in for a "reset", you may have to be a bit hard, cite some laws, whatever the case, the Agency will then began assessing everything this individual is capable of and whatnot for reintegration.

The key here, THEY HAVE TO OUT AND ROUND THEM UP.

Sounds scary and draconian, perhaps, but subtle force if anything, get them cleaned up. If the individual can't adapt, meh, soylet green keep the gene pool clean, jk jk

Just a hypothetical scenario.

a reply to: abe froman

And yet here we are in the year 2018 and the problem is still there not going anywhere, not lightly to diminish but only increase.

Here is one for you, i got the tin pale for the weekend not that long ago, I was being daft, fighting with one of my mates, silly stupid drunken argument. Monday morning comes and you end up dubbed up in a holding cell with around 20 other guys waiting to see the sheriff, 90% of which are about 18-30, so your there all day and obviously get to talking, i can get on with anyone and find it rather easy to slot myself into any social situation.

So you learn about what they have done, what they are in for, have been in for, and it's all drug-related nonsense 95% of such is Heroin-related, the poor souls smoke(And mainline) the stuff in the same manner people smoked weed in days gone by.

I could not believe my eyes and ears.

The effect on both themselves and their lives, however, is rather different, somewhat more detrimental to say the least.

The problem most certainly will not solve itself!

a reply to: Arnie123

We have 300,000 homeless in this nation, a significant percentage of such are on Heroin, dabble with the stuff, or are involved either directly or indirectly with the substance.

We cannot even be bothered to house or feed these poor people in any kind of meaningful manner, so as to rounding them all up, and forcing them to get help, well that's simply an untenable solution, unworkable and unimplementable I'm afraid.

We simply do not have the resources nor inclination to help these poor people.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

And as long as the dealers keep paying their bills to there dealers aka Police nothing will ever happen to them.

It's crap that rolls downhill CornishCeltGuy, money rolls in the other direction.

And trust me when i say its all about the monies!

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Arnie123

We have 300,000 homeless in this nation, a significant percentage of such are on Heroin, dabble with the stuff, or are involved either directly or indirectly with the substance.

We cannot even be bothered to house or feed these poor people in any kind of meaningful manner, so as to rounding them all up, and forcing them to get help, well that's simply an untenable solution, unworkable and unimplementable I'm afraid.

We simply do not have the resources nor inclination to help these poor people.

Well, that's kinda the point of the thread, basically this and what viable solutions can be presented, either extreme or not.

a reply to: Arnie123

Fact is through TPTB don't want a solution to a billion £££££ a year industry.

Tell you whats killing just as many junkies as Heroin these days, fake Valium!

There are dropping like flies because the bathtub concocted pills are full of all sorts, including but not limited to Strychnine(Rat poison).

About 40-50 people dead down to such in the last 2 years alone, and that's just Glasgow.

We spend trillions on useless wars. How about we take care of our own people first. China has been warned about the amount of fentanyl they are producing. You know what they told us? If there wasn't a demand there would be a supply.

Mexico has learned how to refine heroin the way Afghanistan does. Mexican cartels have lost a large part of their revenue since medical marijuana and legalization have gained momentum in the united states. Cartels have doubled heroin production.

They are poisoning our kids and ruining lives.

If it were up to me I'd be sending militarized hit squads into these countries and taking out kingpins regardless of borders. If other governments don't stop it we will.

a reply to: wantsome

Fentanyl is already on our streets and in our towns and cities.

If we think Heroin is problematic wait till that stuff takes off in any kind of meaningful manner.

If you think junkies will steal the milk out your Tea already, wait till you see what they are willing to perpetrate on that gear???

Because its 100 times more powerful, 100 times more deadly and addictive than mere Heroin/smack.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

They have to want to stop' or 'They should take responsibility' but it ain't that easy.

You are right its not that easy, but that is the reality of it. Its up to them to help themselves. Nobody or no program will be of any good to them, until they decide to help themselves first.

My wife is an ER nurse and she sees it everyday. Nothing and no amount of money will work until the person decides they want to change, period.

I don't know the answers, I wish I did, but I'd pay more taxes if it was diverted solely for addiction service and rehab units.

The US gov't ,DNC,GOP are all corrupted via conflict of interest from lobbying groups. They will wipe your arse with your tears. The system is working perfectly for them as they wrote the regulations and are the direct benefactors.

You giving the gov't more money is the stupidest thing we can do as society until you address the rampant conflict of interest in society. Their goal or concern is not help the people ,its to make more money for the lobbyist.

Its like giving money to the mafia to stop crime. They aren't going todo it because they have a conflict of interest and benefit from crime. So why do people expect different from government?

I don't know the answers,

The answer is

1. Address conflict of interest with politicians that are making the law. Noting will be fixed until this is taken care of.

2. Once they aren't riddled with conflict of interest we can concentrate on actual solutions where their main intentions is to really help the people versus putting more money on the lobbyist pockets.

3. Stop the war on drugs , its a wasteful uphill battle that does more harm than good. Use those resources to actually help addicts .

to start

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Arnie123

Fact is through TPTB don't want a solution to a billion £££££ a year industry.

Tell you whats killing just as many junkies as Heroin these days, fake Valium!

There are dropping like flies because the bathtub concocted pills are full of all sorts, including but not limited to Strychnine(Rat poison).

About 40-50 people dead down to such in the last 2 years alone, and that's just Glasgow.

Ok, but you're just furthering the point in the issues that need to be addressed. Omce again, solutions.

If there is a billion dollar cabal hell bent on this cash flow, we should find ways to dismantle it? Doesn't it start with the people though? Addiction is hard to kick, not impossible, support anf something to do.

In the U.S., crystal meth is the overwhelming problem.

meth prevents your experience while high from being converted to long term memories. I have helped out with homeless shelters for 20 years now; I seen this over and over.

I saw a young guy, maybe 21, who asked to use the computer in the shelter's office. Normally it's a "no," but I watched everything he typed.

This was in about November. He contacted his dad's lawyer. The lawyer emailed right back, that he would call me and talk to me (not the young man). The young man told me the last thing he remembered was getting his student loan check from the exchequer's office at a major university, in August... and his roommate saying "we should buy some meth." The next thing he knew, he was being ejected from a county jail 500 miles away, in NOVEMBER.

The lawyer called us, and I put him on speaker phone. The lawyer said, "you have emptied out your bank account, your college fund, your little sister's college fund, and apparently sold your car to a chop-shop for cash. You broke into your parents' home and stole most of the stuff that was easy to pawn, including guns. Your parents have changed the locks on the house, changed their phone numbers (because you kept calling while high and begging for money). They have cut off all contact with you and instructed me to send you money once a licensed therapist says you are clean and sober." (We didn't have a therapist at the shelter, the kid went to a hospital I think to see if he could get on a dr.'s schedule.)

But the kid was dumbfounded that he had basically wrecked his life in three months and had absolutely no recollection of it. or of the city where he "woke up." Or his new criminal record, which basically nixed his college goal of law school....

a reply to: Arnie123

"If there is a billion dollar cabal hell bent on this cash flow"

Yes there sure is, and its a multifaceted one at that, ending with the bankers and politicians, high-ranking Police and customs officials, that are essentially above the law.

"They" have their fingers in many a pie, addressing what "They" get up to is indeed the ticket, but its a golden ticket that to date has of yet never been found.

Best way i can see to address the issue is to legalize it thus somewhat remove the criminality and sting from "There" tail. If it's in the open its potentially addressable, in the shadows not so much.