Heroin, the scourge of society, how do we fix it?

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Legalising on prescription in controlled environments with reduced doses is the only answer.
I'm sick of watching people slowly die

Canada is steering towards a 'harm reduction' scheme...Naloxone for cops and medics, safe injection sites, needle exchanges and so on. Legalisation would take the criminal element out. It's only a matter of time, in civilised countries, that is.

Re Naloxone in the US:

Heroin(e)': The Women Fighting Addiction In Appalachia

www.npr.org...

It's a well made documentary on the subject.

To all those who say "give the addicts what they want," let me ask about American Indian reservations. On most of them it's illegal to sell alcohol ( or even possess it ). Because of Indians' purported propensity toward alcoholism.

Should we overturn that law? Build them taverns on tribal land where they can get as drunk as they want, safely?

What does it say about your own racism, that you think whites should have their powders and needles, but native Americans should not get theirs? Paternalism is only ok when used on people of color????


Well, you say, the Native American has a DNA that makes him succeptible to alcohol.

Yeah. I'm saying the whole human race had DNA that is succeptible to to heroin---called "opioid receptors"!!!

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Sorry I haven't read all the thread before replying so I apologise if I repeat what others may have said.

We need a radical change in policy from our lawmakers and police.

The 'War on drugs' has failed miserably and the way things are at present it just serves to fund the criminals and punish the users.
Legalise everything with strict limits etc put in place on working / driving under the influence etc.
Exceptionally severe punishments to anyone who exceeds limits.

Upsides - Increased government revenue through taxes.
Redirect policing costs and manpower to monitoring and education etc.
Lower associated crime levels.

Of course that's a massive over simplification but I'm sure you get the idea.

On a personal level I know 12 people who have died either directly or indirectly through heroin.

I know someone who's brother was giving him Heroin at age 14. He died in prison when he was 37 from leukemia. It's cancer of the blood. I suspect it's from years of doing the drug.

Over the past 10 years heroin has become rampant in my area. My 18 year old cousin got hooked on the stuff. Back in the 90's I watched my friends do the drug and I had it offered to me.

A lot of people blame pills. It was a problem in my area long before pills became popular.

Now we have small level street dealers living in the suburbs. My cousins high school has been nicknamed heroin high. I pity any kid dumb enough to try the stuff. The drug does nothing but cause a lifetime of misery.

I don't have any answers. I'd hate to see it legalized and excepted. I've seen it ruin so many lives. I'd like to see the military hunt and execute anyone manufacturing it.

I don't think treatment works. Not many people escape it. Every addict I've met is dead or in prison.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

After quick skimming through all the replies it's good to see that I'm far from being a minority of one.

Legalisation seems to be quite a common opinion.

Where I live we have one of the highest percentage of heroin users in the whole of the UK....yet it isn't the most common drug being used.

I think T&C prevent me from going much further but suffice to say the most common Class A drug being used around here is Colombia's most well known export.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: CriticalStinker

Interesting thoughts

You have to be in agony to get opiate drugs off the NHS, they are really controlled here.
Most opiate addiction in the UK is illegal heroin.

No its not.

a reply to: Freeborn

Legalisation/prescription heroin and controlled spaces to be under the influence with medics available seems to be the sensible option to me as well.
...and yes, heroin use is the minority drug in my area as well, the overwhelming majority of people who do recreational drugs now do coke, while there is still a large market of MDMA. It's a pity because coke is such a selfish 'me me me' drug compared to MDMA. Either way, the damage of heroin use is far more severe than weekend coke use. Heroin is an awful drug, I've never met a user who is a good advert for it.

a reply to: purplemer

3 word reply? Come on, I know you are better than that.
There may well be more prescription addicts, I haven't checked the stat's so I'll meet you half way and re-phrase my statement to 'the most damaging opiate addiction in the UK is illegal heroin.'

I think the real issue with the use of such destructive drugs as heroin, crack and meth is that our society is so messed up many people are so down trodden that even though they know the likely consequences of such drug use, their life appears so bleak they balance the temporary escape against the consequences and decide that though grave, those consequences aren't much worse than a life without getting high.

Sort out the lack of opportunities, the inability for large groups of people to have a decent career and quality of life and use of these drugs will fall naturally.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Agreed. The daughter in my OP was born to a heroin user, I've watched her grow up knowing she would turn out the same. They are both homeless in the sense they sleep at different smack houses being used by men in exchange. It is a tragedy and I can see why she just wants to escape into heroin, especially as they are both totally addicted now.

I've seen her in awful stages of withdrawal in town and given her money to buy a hit a few times over the years. Some people might be outraged by that but I see it as compassionate when the addiction/rehab services are virtually nil here.
Most people don't care though, I get looks of disgust often from people walking past when I'm talking to local addicts, like I shouldn't lower myself to interact with them. I don't care, they are fellow humans in a mess and need compassion, not scorning.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy


I think some of that is born of fear (The condemnation) After all, if you can empathise to any extent, its a scary thought that "there but for the grace of god goes you"

a reply to: SprocketUK

I agree, fear is the thing, but I never understand how people just walk on by. I do a welfare check on anyone gouched out on the smugglers steps or shady back alley's. Arm's length "Are you alright mate?" etc, paramedics actually want us to do that now instead of calling them, just make sure they are safe and breathing normally, maybe recovery position, especially with spice heads, they'll be okay again in half an hour or so.
It is a modern day tragedy though and I'll never forget that they are someone's son or daughter.
The girl in the OP is the same age as my son, she just had a crappier start in life compared to him, it's why he cares for her as well. Woe betide anyone he sees abusing her in town, he's tight head prop for our town's rugby team, need a lump hammer to knock him out, and he's the same as me trying to change perceptions and increase compassion in our society.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Sort out the lack of opportunities, the inability for large groups of people to have a decent career and quality of life and use of these drugs will fall naturally.

With all due respect, if that were true then why the exceptionally high use of heroin and crack in wealthy, elite circles?

Drug use and abuse crosses all social divides, sure some use them as escape and / or coping mechanisms but by no means not all.
Most start using drugs simply to get 'high' or to enter some sort of altered state.....humans have been doing it since the day we climbed out of trees.....and no amount of prohibition will alter that.

a reply to: Freeborn

Good points.
The most beautiful girl I ever loved was earning big money and went down the heroin road. She used to look like the current avatar of the member 'Plotus' I almost thought it was her when I first saw his avatar. Anyway I had to dump her when she carried on using, and after she lied that she had stopped. My son was young, I couldn't fit a heroin addict girlfriend into my life.
She looks 10 years older than me these days, living in a squat, #ing tragedy.

a reply to: Freeborn

Unfortunately punishing the users and funding the criminals is simply just good business ...

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Cops don't arrest users in my parts anymore, they target the dealers, but it's a cat and mouse game and the cat is massively under resourced in Devon and Cornwall constabulary.

a reply to: Freeborn

Different sort of use though, isn't it?

Generally with rich folks it's a nose full of Charlie on a Friday night or a bit of dragon chasing at parties.


The people who's lives are properly ruined in large numbers are the kids who stick a needle in their arm in some squat or smoke a crack pipe to blot out the pain of existence.


You generally don't see people who work hard and earn decent money doing anything outside of the weekend or the annual trip to Glasto do you? (Sure there are outliers, but in general, having a job, a future and feeling like you are getting along a bit is pretty much a cure for most of society's ills)

a reply to: SprocketUK

True, I know some big earners who do crack on the weekend then put their suit on monday morning. Functioning recreational users.
The people I mentioned in the OP are desperately wretched and escaping deep life challenges. Massive difference.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

That's good I guess, here they go after the users, it's big business, in fact I'm witnessing it in action as we speak, I live close to splendour in the grass ... I'm seeing revenue in action.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Cops here only target users for whatever crime they might be up to funding their addiction, so burglary or shoplifting etc.
The mother/daughter couple in the OP sell their bodies, and prostitution is legal in the UK just not allowed to solicit prostitution services. Curious British law.
Addicts caught with personal possession will generally just have it confiscated. But I disagree with that because it just means the girl will have to sell herself out again to score another hit.