Why are people mad that you have to work for Food Stamps / WIC?

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: projectvxn
as far as I know, and I could be wrong...
wic is more like coupons for free food, you get coupons for low fat milk, cheese- not the processed imitation, real cheese, healthy cereal, real juice, ect... not sure but you might even get some for fresh fruits and vegatables.
oh.... and baby formula...

That's the idea.

It's an excellent program. Not sure why it was lumped in with SNAP and other benefits that are more open to waste and abuse.

Help for the working poor, by all means. Income disparity mandates we do that as a society.

No questions asked help for the infirm and the disabled, again by all means. We don't help enough, in particular with seniors who worked their whole lives only to live in poverty at the end.

For the able bodied, there simply is no excuse why they should not work at least part time for it. Beneficial to the community and beneficial to them. Going to school should be an acceptable substitute for the work, but only if they actually attend and get passing grades. For those not academically inclined, the trades pay very well and learning a trade could be another bonus for the person.

Something people don't or don't like to discuss is that just giving handouts to those who could but don't chose to work, is abuse. We are like any other animal and we all know if you feed wild animals, it's abuse because they lose the motivation to find their own food and they lose the ability to do so. So do people. We need a reason to get up in the morning.

Partisan garbage is always in the way of creating good, sound programs to help those in need. It's so badly mismanaged that it should not come as a surprise that the private sector could provide better for far less investment. The whole thing should be turned over to regulated non-profits to be managed. Government union workers will never be able to manage it without wasting half or more of the tax dollars they throw around. Out an out fraud must eat up a very large part of it.

a reply to: projectvxn

WIC isn't EBT. It's really hard to abuse WIC. You get what it says you get...and that's it.

WIC is one thing I've never had an issue with.

a reply to: seagull

I just wish welfare programs had the kind of success and structure as WIC.

Welfare has just never been a real big issue for me. It's a drop in the bucket and it helps people, even with abuse and fraud, which happens everywhere, the vast majority of welfare recipients aren't gaming the system.

They just need some help. I'm good with that.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Uh, well, my best guess would be you can find out by thinking this through.

So........on food stamps, which means the person has no job.
No job=no car.
No=car means......no job. Unless of course there's a public transit system
No job probably implies no college, and no job skills.
That means working 20 hours a week at McDonalds or some other menial job that barely pays enough to pay for the bus fare to get back and forth to work.

I know a lot of people who turn down "work" because it simply doesn't pay enough to make it worth while.

A second reason they're mad is because, lets face it..............most places of employment in the US are just plain demeaning. Many work environments are soul crushing.

Sad really.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Edumakated

Serious question, why would you have children if the salary isn't high enough to care for them? Where does personal responsibility come into play?

Personal responsibility is paramount. The WIC program isn't there to support people who don't work. Once again, go do some research.

Nothing wrong with WIC I've ever noticed. Don't know much about it, but what I do know of it, it's a good thing.

a reply to: Blaine91555

a baby crying for it's next ba ba is a good reason to get up.... anytime, day or night.
like I said... wic is only available for women who are pregnant (how many employers are gonna want a pregnant employee working for them who are ready to drop any moment?) and their very young children...
a young child or baby gives you plenty of motivation to get up... day or night, whenever it's necessary!

a reply to: projectvxn

I think your a little too trusting or you have never actually been around the inner city culture to know how bad the abuse is? Entire generations of families raised knowing nothing but living on handouts and not having any motivation to dig themselves out of it. It's far more pervasive than you think.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Did you pay into the system in the form of taxes? Do you work as you can? That's what those things are for, to help where help is needed. There's nothing wrong with that.

The problem, as most of us see it, is when people who've never paid into the system, and are able to, but choose not to, work, use the system as a lifestyle choice--sit at home playing on their latest game system.

a reply to: Blaine91555

I think your a little too trusting or you have never actually been around the inner city culture to know how bad the abuse is?

I worked in a Welfare office in Sparks, NV.

I was an armed guard at the downtown bus station.

I was homeless in LA and in LV when I was a child.

I have the experience.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Does that mean "work" 20 hours a week, or 80 hours a month, for $200 in groceries?

If they can do better they should do better.

a reply to: TonyS

I don't know about where you live, but where I live....
outside of a few exceptions you have to be either working, disabled, parent of a young child, in a training program, or volunteering somewhere to get food stamps...
and shall we talk about the many, many families who have one or two parents working who still need food stamps??
how about we put some pressure on the employers for once to pay a little more in wages instead of just providing them with more workers who are willing to take the low wage they are offering???

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: projectvxn

I think your a little too trusting or you have never actually been around the inner city culture to know how bad the abuse is? Entire generations of families raised knowing nothing but living on handouts and not having any motivation to dig themselves out of it. It's far more pervasive than you think.

Same in the UK, if you have kids then benefits are generous. Rent paid, no council tax to pay, free school meals...blah.
Any UK member who tells you different is lying. The only poor 'single' parents are spending too much on the iphone contract or full satelite package and drinking too much.
All my 'single' parent mates are living comfortable lives, especially when the father is on the scene on the sly contributing as well.

a reply to: dawnstar

Exactly. WIC is nothing like EBT/Snap.

Those juices can not be mixed juices. Apple. Grape. Straight Cranberry. Grapefruit. Orange. No Apple-grape, or even lemonaid.

Cereal is strictly non-sweetened. Cheerios. Corn flakes. etc...

WIC is a lifesaver for many families who've run into issues. Priced a can of baby formula lately...? Good God, the stuff is incredibly pricey.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Edumakated

I saw in one state, you qualify for WIC if you make $1800/mo or less for 1 child... $1800/mo is $21,600/yr. A single person with no expenses can barely take care of themselves on $21,600/yr so WTF would someone have a child making so little?

In principle I agree with you. But reality is far more complicated than this comment could possibly give credit for. It's not all black and white.

Condoms are free.

Elitist attitude and use of logical fallacies.

Just saying it is irresponsibility that the rest of us wind up paying for...

Is it ALL irresponsibility? Sometimes life isn't cut and dry man.

How is it elitist to say people shouldn't have kids before they are financially ready? Condoms are free as well as other birth control programs. Having kids is a personal decision. If you can't afford them, then it isn't my responsibility to make up your financial shortage.

Sure, society will always step up because "it's for the kids" but at the same time, at some point we have to say enough is enough. Kids are not accidents and not unplanned. When two adults decide to do the nasty, a kid can result from said activity whether intended or not. As an adult, you have to live with your personal decision. You either strap it up or tell your chick to swallow. People's sex lives and what may result are not my responsibility.

Let me give you an example. I mentored a kid through Big Brothers. Typical ghetto case. Mom can't or won't work. Dad out in the streets and no where to be found. They live in a dumpy one bedroom apartment. Mom, the 9 year old I was a Big Brother too, and his older sister who was in her 20s.

The older sister worked a low paying retail job. Anyway, this chick gets preggers. So again, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. WTF would you get yourself pregnant when you are 1) unmarried and 2) living at home in a 1 bedroom apartment because you can't afford your own place?

Prime example of someone who might get WIC or other aid. Clear irresponsibility, but now society has to pay for this chick's big O because she wouldn't make her man strap it up or use some other protection.

a reply to: seagull

too bad they couldn't transform food stamps into something more like wic, but that would probably be too expensive really...

originally posted by: projectvxn
WIC is exactly the kind of welfare I'm all for because it goes directly to feeding kids and expectant mothers in need.

WIC isn't EBT or cash assistance, it's real help.

I highly recommend learning more about the WIC program before you start chastising those who benefit from it as lazy people who don't work...Because that's not how it works.

Never thought I'd see someone crapping on WIC.

I agree WIC is good but just like with everything else it has its flaws. One example I have is a friend of mine used WIC for a few years when she had kids. She did not need it but she worked the system and they did not care or perhaps she blatantly lied, not sure.

She is a dental hygienist making $50-$60k a year and her husband worked in a factory making $20/hour. She never put either hers or her husbands income down and they never checked. God damn that pissed me off and I let her know what bull# that was.

originally posted by: smkymcnugget420

Wife makes couple hundred grand a year, so we still come out far ahead with her working.

a reply to: Edumakated

dammmmm dude, good for her!

meanwhile i'm over hear supporting my family as a single income bread winner at a little over 50k a year... mo money mo problems i guess...i live in a city too not THE city, but still...

Yes, proud of her professional success. She worked hard and deserves it. I recall when she was making like $32k/yr and on a strict budget. Regardless, more money does bring more problems. Big city living is expensive.

If I'd have known I probably would have never gotten on this hamster wheel. I'd be MGTOW living cheaply out in the woods if I had to start over, but that is entirely another topic.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: JAGStorm

We provide an endless supply of corporate welfare without any stipulations. Why not poor people too?

Can’t we be against both?

No one here suggested they were for corporate handouts. This is an intellectually dishonest argument.

It is clear that the gov. feels that people welfare is worse that corporate welfare.

Since they choose to act against one and not the other.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
It's really a problem of morality.
People take advantage of free stuff when fully capable of doing for themselves.
We've gone from being a society of givers to a society of takers.
It affects everything in our lives, much more than just Food stamps.
Like Rome America can fall due to internal decay and greed..

I was at a free community BBQ once. Normally they charge a small amount for food but that year they tried having it be free. Holy #ing #...I couldn't believe the behaviour of people. The second a plate of burgers or hotdogs would show up people went crazy loading 5 of each or more on their plates as fast as they could. I remember standing there waiting to get a Burger with this old Lady while 3 plates full of burgers came by. They were emptied immediately by people taking as much as they possibly could. Eventually I managed to grab one and give it to the old Lady...I got one for myself off the next plate. It was unbelievable watching people act like that. These were all kinds of people rich, poor, adults and kids. Everyone was acting like #ing animals. They ran out of food earlier that year than any year before or since. The next year they charged for food again.

About the welfare stuff. Here they don't have food stamps but to be eligible for welfare, if you're not a parent or disabled, you must constantly proove you're actively looking for work. You have to attend mandatory job search workshops, provide lists of people you've contacted and interviews you have arranged. If you fail to provide enough of these things weekly you get cut off.

I know this is only somewhat related, but I did find employment insurance was kind of set up to discourage working. I always did as much work as I could when I was on it, but if it wasn't under the table work it was more worth it to not do say a day of temporary work and instead search for full time work. Any extra money I made that I had to declare and was deducted from my ei, making it kind of pointless to do any kind of odd jobs that weren't paid in cash.