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Chinese Outflank US Navy, Develop First Railgun for Ready for Warships
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a reply to: eriktheawful
A railgun sucks for shooting down aircraft and missiles unless they're really close, or they've got an amazing computer aiming system. These are designed for surface and land based targets. Their big advantage over the DF-21 or other anti ship missiles is the speed at which they can hit the target. They'd be devastating as a first strike weapon, if they could get them in close, and use them before we knew they were coming, but with the range they currently have, they're better for land attack use.
A railgun sucks for shooting down aircraft and missiles unless they're really close, or they've got an amazing computer aiming system. These are designed for surface and land based targets. Their big advantage over the DF-21 or other anti ship missiles is the speed at which they can hit the target. They'd be devastating as a first strike weapon, if they could get them in close, and use them before we knew they were coming, but with the range they currently have, they're better for land attack use.
a reply to: JDmOKI
And that proven Navy isn't going to win nearly as handily as you think. Especially when they're sitting on their ass giving up every advantage they hold as fast as they can, while making stupid decisions about where they're going for the future.
And that proven Navy isn't going to win nearly as handily as you think. Especially when they're sitting on their ass giving up every advantage they hold as fast as they can, while making stupid decisions about where they're going for the future.
a reply to: JDmOKI
Well, let's look at a few of their genius decisions lately.
F-35- they don't plan on buying more than 4 a year until they're ready for IOC, which means they MIGHT have enough to actually declare IOC, but won't have enough to be even remotely useful until the mid-2020s at the earliest.
UCLASS/Stingray- they took a bleeding edge, penetrating strike UAV, and after basically restarting it four times turned it into a tanker, that MIGHT have basic sensor capability to monitor surface activity on the way to and from the ship, and no strike capability, or any way to have it added later, and might not even be able to meet their tanker requirements, meaning another delay and design change.
LCS- this program has been the biggest joke ever seen in ship development in history, and is getting worse. And they're still building them.
F-18/EA-18 ECS problems- the F-18 family has been doing its best to kill crews with major environmental system problems (they went from 5 problems reported a year, to, in some cases 30-40 a year). The Navy has been studying the problem for years and is no closer to finding the answer than they were from before it got so much worse.
Railgun- They've been working on this for 20+ years, and have it to the point where it could be deployed on a hull within a few years, and last year they announced that it may never be deployed, let alone see combat.
And on and on and on.
Well, let's look at a few of their genius decisions lately.
F-35- they don't plan on buying more than 4 a year until they're ready for IOC, which means they MIGHT have enough to actually declare IOC, but won't have enough to be even remotely useful until the mid-2020s at the earliest.
UCLASS/Stingray- they took a bleeding edge, penetrating strike UAV, and after basically restarting it four times turned it into a tanker, that MIGHT have basic sensor capability to monitor surface activity on the way to and from the ship, and no strike capability, or any way to have it added later, and might not even be able to meet their tanker requirements, meaning another delay and design change.
LCS- this program has been the biggest joke ever seen in ship development in history, and is getting worse. And they're still building them.
F-18/EA-18 ECS problems- the F-18 family has been doing its best to kill crews with major environmental system problems (they went from 5 problems reported a year, to, in some cases 30-40 a year). The Navy has been studying the problem for years and is no closer to finding the answer than they were from before it got so much worse.
Railgun- They've been working on this for 20+ years, and have it to the point where it could be deployed on a hull within a few years, and last year they announced that it may never be deployed, let alone see combat.
And on and on and on.
a reply to: anzha
China has the worlds best naval army. Russia has the worlds best ground army. America has the worlds best air army. China is electronically more advanced than the world. Russia has the most powerful artillary in the world. America is most tactional country in world. By those facts alone, that's a pretty cool invention. Nothing to say they can beat US though.
China has the worlds best naval army. Russia has the worlds best ground army. America has the worlds best air army. China is electronically more advanced than the world. Russia has the most powerful artillary in the world. America is most tactional country in world. By those facts alone, that's a pretty cool invention. Nothing to say they can beat US though.
Do any of us really believe we know what is in any arsenal? My uncle worked for decades at Martin Marittea and with Lockheed and one thing he always
said was anything you see in the news or is commercially available is 20-30 year old tech by the time it reaches us if it does.
When you watch the Boston Dynamics robots...do you really think that is their best?
All that aside I have always thought this to be cool technology.
When you watch the Boston Dynamics robots...do you really think that is their best?
All that aside I have always thought this to be cool technology.
We should have this thread linked in: Navy rail gun shooting multiply shots.
This is penroc3's video of the US Navy shooting multiple shots from their rail gun last year. Then a general discussion like ya'll had the first page ensues. Then an update of multiple shots in a minute. The amount of power consumed is discussed. Zaphod58 schools us on how loud these things are.
Seems the only reason to not have rail gun capability is one of power consumption (it takes time to charge the banks of capacitors). There is also a post from early this year saying China had mounted one on a ship.
Maybe China has fast charging supercapacitors figured out?? Which means, most likely, graphene based.
US or China, we can see where this is all headed? Electricity and electric everything. Now where would an aircraft carrier get all that electricity from? Which brings us back to Lockheed and their CFR.
At least that is where it is all headed!
This is penroc3's video of the US Navy shooting multiple shots from their rail gun last year. Then a general discussion like ya'll had the first page ensues. Then an update of multiple shots in a minute. The amount of power consumed is discussed. Zaphod58 schools us on how loud these things are.
Seems the only reason to not have rail gun capability is one of power consumption (it takes time to charge the banks of capacitors). There is also a post from early this year saying China had mounted one on a ship.
Maybe China has fast charging supercapacitors figured out?? Which means, most likely, graphene based.
US or China, we can see where this is all headed? Electricity and electric everything. Now where would an aircraft carrier get all that electricity from? Which brings us back to Lockheed and their CFR.
At least that is where it is all headed!
To be fair China has stolen nearly all the technology the US has invented.
Or if youre the Clintons you just trade it for big bags of cash.
Or if youre the Clintons you just trade it for big bags of cash.
a reply to: matafuchs
Public or not they don't have many of these. prophetic tools of war. 5 or 10 isn't so game changing when a frienemy has some other game changers. Unless it is some world destructive tech. or something incredibly elusive, it won't be something more than a batman trying to save the world as bruce wayne or tony stark creating realistic for this technological age weapons.
Public or not they don't have many of these. prophetic tools of war. 5 or 10 isn't so game changing when a frienemy has some other game changers. Unless it is some world destructive tech. or something incredibly elusive, it won't be something more than a batman trying to save the world as bruce wayne or tony stark creating realistic for this technological age weapons.
a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
And then they decided that it might not ever be mounted, partly because it can't fire 10 shots in a minute.
And then they decided that it might not ever be mounted, partly because it can't fire 10 shots in a minute.
The Chinese are using economic means to control countries they go into infrastructure projects with.
They're right on Australias door step now "helping" PNG
Their military is ramping up to protect their trade. They're taking a page out of the US's playbook. Forward bases on reclaimed man made islands. Both Russia and China are surrounded by US bases. They saw what a CIA led uprising did to the Ukraine.
At least they haven't invaded countries for loot using fake news about WMD's
They're right on Australias door step now "helping" PNG
Their military is ramping up to protect their trade. They're taking a page out of the US's playbook. Forward bases on reclaimed man made islands. Both Russia and China are surrounded by US bases. They saw what a CIA led uprising did to the Ukraine.
At least they haven't invaded countries for loot using fake news about WMD's
a reply to: Zaphod58
(stating for the larger audience)
The barrels are the biggest problem. They wear out very fast. 40 rounds or so, right now, for the American versions. The arcing from the electricity, the friction of contact with the rails and the projectile and the heating from all of the above all erode the rails pretty badly.
(stating for the larger audience)
The barrels are the biggest problem. They wear out very fast. 40 rounds or so, right now, for the American versions. The arcing from the electricity, the friction of contact with the rails and the projectile and the heating from all of the above all erode the rails pretty badly.
a reply to: Zaphod58
So I understand. 40 rounds is still rather short of what they need for real combat use. To mitigate this, they were either talking about spending more on the mat sci (which they ought to do) and/or have relatively easily replaceable barrels.
So I understand. 40 rounds is still rather short of what they need for real combat use. To mitigate this, they were either talking about spending more on the mat sci (which they ought to do) and/or have relatively easily replaceable barrels.
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight
Very true. Becoming, Being, and Staying a superpower isn't only about military strength and ability. More importantly is the economy backing any empire. China has been playing the long game for a very good while, and I fear it very well may be productive to their goals.
One downside of being a democracy/capitalist country is the always changing strategic priorities. Partly caused by leadership changes every few years, and partly due to those in power prioritizing short-term/instant profits for their donors and their selves over a long-term strategy for the country.
While this can be effective in the short term, a country strategizing and staying with a 20 year/50 year plan very well may overtake us in the end. Granted by then, those now making the decisions will have their wealth in offshore banks, divested into secure investments, and additional properties owned outside of US jurisdiction. Sadly, if the time ever comes for the rats to jump ship, they'll land in beautiful estates and set for life instead of the icy waters (while the rest of us drown).
~Winter
Very true. Becoming, Being, and Staying a superpower isn't only about military strength and ability. More importantly is the economy backing any empire. China has been playing the long game for a very good while, and I fear it very well may be productive to their goals.
One downside of being a democracy/capitalist country is the always changing strategic priorities. Partly caused by leadership changes every few years, and partly due to those in power prioritizing short-term/instant profits for their donors and their selves over a long-term strategy for the country.
While this can be effective in the short term, a country strategizing and staying with a 20 year/50 year plan very well may overtake us in the end. Granted by then, those now making the decisions will have their wealth in offshore banks, divested into secure investments, and additional properties owned outside of US jurisdiction. Sadly, if the time ever comes for the rats to jump ship, they'll land in beautiful estates and set for life instead of the icy waters (while the rest of us drown).
~Winter
a reply to: anzha
First, just let me say that "All because of our collective American arrogance" is pretty insulting! I'm not part of any damned collective, American or otherwise.
got that off my chest!
Your conclusion that this is a dreadnought moment is quite interesting, but...........hasn't that moment already sort of come and gone? I mean, seriously, one nuke and an entire carrier task force is toast. And that could be delivered by a B-52!
My guess, and its just a guess, is that the US Navy pretty much knows that. Unless I'm missing something, it certainly seems like for the most part, the US Navy has opted for the Arliegh Burke Destroyers as its primary Carrier support vessel with a few Cruisers serving as fire control centers. So I'm guessing that the US Navy has pretty much figured out that other than serving as troop support in places like Iraq and Afghanistan from Carrier task forces, the whole concept of a "surface" navy is obsolete in and of itself in terms of a WWIII scenario.
First, just let me say that "All because of our collective American arrogance" is pretty insulting! I'm not part of any damned collective, American or otherwise.
got that off my chest!
Your conclusion that this is a dreadnought moment is quite interesting, but...........hasn't that moment already sort of come and gone? I mean, seriously, one nuke and an entire carrier task force is toast. And that could be delivered by a B-52!
My guess, and its just a guess, is that the US Navy pretty much knows that. Unless I'm missing something, it certainly seems like for the most part, the US Navy has opted for the Arliegh Burke Destroyers as its primary Carrier support vessel with a few Cruisers serving as fire control centers. So I'm guessing that the US Navy has pretty much figured out that other than serving as troop support in places like Iraq and Afghanistan from Carrier task forces, the whole concept of a "surface" navy is obsolete in and of itself in terms of a WWIII scenario.
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