J10 Unclassified (PLAFF releases info for first time)

Im not too fond of chinese weaponry (instinct), but I rate the J-10 above the F-14 in ALL aspects..

Originally posted by W4rl0rD

Originally posted by Adam_S
Max speed mach 2? Either PLAAF is doing disinformation or its a slow plane for todays standards, f-15 reaches mach 2.5 and old f-4 phantom mach 2.2.

I believe thats disinformation,the AL-31 powerplant is quite efficent,I strongly believe it can go up to mach 2.3 at least.

The WS-10A engine that is in development to replace the AL-31F is rumored to be more powerfull and is fully 3d thrust vector capable

F14's top speed is mach 2.4
Can track 20 targets at once at up to 200 miles.
Can carry 6 Pheonix missles with a 200 mile range each.

If this post is accurate, the F14's stats are FAR more impressive than the J10. Super Cruise and agility dont mean a thing to a Pheonix missle. The author also states the J10 can track and target as far as 140 kilometers, thats less than half what the F14 can. What does all this mean? The F14 can shoot down 6 J10's before the first J10 even knows its been engaged.

[edit on 21-2-2005 by skippytjc]

Originally posted by skippytjc
F14's top speed is mach 2.4
Can track 20 targets at once at up to 200 miles.
Can carry 6 Pheonix missles with a 200 mile range each.

If this post is accurate, the F14's stats are FAR more impressive than the J10. Super Cruise and agility dont mean a thing to a Pheonix missle. The author also states the J10 can track and target as far as 140 kilometers, thats less than half what the F14 can. What does all this mean? The F14 can shoot down 6 J10's before the first J10 even knows its been engaged.

[edit on 21-2-2005 by skippytjc]

What is the success rate of a "loose" phoenix... ?
And what are the ECM capabilities of the J-10
The way yo uput it the F-14 is superior too the typhoon, Su-30 MKI etc.etc..

I thought the range of the AWG-9 and Phoenix were 120 miles? This may be wrong but it certainly isn't 200.

History Channel this weekend stated the F14 can target, and fire on targets as far as 200 miles via the Pheonix missle. And engage 6 at a time. The Pheonix is also a fire and forget missile.

The point I am trying to make is, a 30 year old F14 stats are EASILY comparable to the newer Chinese J10.

Sorry China, im not that impressed. Your suped up F16 is simply OK.

I give it a 7 out of a possible 10

[edit on 21-2-2005 by skippytjc]

Just found this on the Pheonix:

General Characteristics:
Primary Function: Long-range air-launched air intercept missile
Contractor: Hughes Aircraft Co. and Raytheon Co.
Unit Cost: $477,131
Power Plant: Solid propellant rocket motor built by Hercules
Length: 13 feet (3.9 meters)
Weight: 1,024 pounds (460.8 kg)
Diameter: 15 inches (38.1 cm)
Wing Span: 3 feet (.9 meters)
Range: In excess of 100 nautical miles (115 statute miles, 184 km)
Speed: In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)
Guidance System: Semi-active and active radar homing
Warheads: Proximity fuse, high explosive
Warhead Weight: 135 pounds (60.75 kg)
Date Deployed: 1974'

Its states the range in "excess" of 115 statute miles, but the History channel was reporting it at 200 miles with new upgrades. In either case the F14 can target that J10 and fire, even taking into account the conservative numbers, 40 kilometers before the J10 can even target the F14. let alone fire on it. And 5 of that J10's closest buds too!

The J10 sure is a purty copy of the F16, but in a real world fight, my cash is on the F14.





[edit on 21-2-2005 by skippytjc]

I was thinking that maybe you had confused 200 miles for 200 km but you clearly know what you meant to say. The figures you posted tally with what I thought but clearly upgrades may have taken it well beyond that.

Phoenix phased out.

F-14s retiring.

COWS OVER

Originally posted by Lucretius

Originally posted by Hockeyguy567

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
All the more reason the U.S. needs the F/A-22 if those specs are true.

The J-10 is nothing to worry about, this stuff about supercruise and "stealth features" it's just junk.

because you have of course flown it and have full access to all details.

I smell hypocracy

The Chinese don't have the technology to compete with the US, yet.

And the Abrams is the best tank in the world.

[edit on 21-2-2005 by Hockeyguy567]

Originally posted by COWlan
Phoenix phased out.

F-14s retiring.

COWS OVER

- F14 has not retired yet, they have already pushed that back once.
- The US still uses Pheonix missles, phased out or not, they still beat anything the Chinese have on thier F16 copy


Its funny that a plane that old and nearly retired, using "phased out" missiles, can still out perform China's best plane in the sky.

[edit on 21-2-2005 by skippytjc]

Originally posted by Hockeyguy567

The Chinese don't have the technology to compete with the US, yet.

And the Abrams is the best tank in the world.

Talk is cheap...

go find me some proof

About the pheonix... 60% success rate is hardly earth shattering now is it?

[edit on 21-2-2005 by Lucretius]

Originally posted by Lucretius

Originally posted by Hockeyguy567

The Chinese don't have the technology to compete with the US, yet.

And the Abrams is the best tank in the world.

Talk is cheap...

go find me some proof

About the pheonix... 60% success rate is hardly earth shattering now is it?

[edit on 21-2-2005 by Lucretius]

60% success rate from TWO HUNDRED miles away involving planes moving at mach 1.5+ is very impressive. If I was a pilot I would be quite content if I had a 60% chance of shooting down 6 enemy aircraft 100 miles before they could even see me.

Again, 30 year old AMERICAN tech still competitive with China's best.

Originally posted by skippytjc
Again, 30 year old AMERICAN tech still competitive with China's best.
Should be,
Again, 30 years upgraded AMERICAN tech is still competititive to China's best.

30 years ago, there even didn't have a color LCD. I wonder what's the capacity of the harddisk and memory installed on F-14A. Don't tell me then you have a 180G ATA HD and 4G DDR RAM.

[edit on 22-2-2005 by lmairforce]

60% success rate against an "aware" target armed with ECM, flares and chaff?
or against an unaware drone??

Whatever 60% is less..that means there's every chance that the 6 phoenix missiles do not splash more than 3 out of 6 targets.. and only illuminate their origin to more "inferior" radar!!

Originally posted by lmairforce

Originally posted by skippytjc
Again, 30 year old AMERICAN tech still competitive with China's best.

Should be,
Again, 30 years upgraded AMERICAN tech is still competititive to China's best.

30 years ago, there even didn't have a color LCD. I wonder what's the capacity of the harddisk and memory installed on F-14A. Don't tell me then you have a 180G ATA HD and 4G DDR RAM.

Not to mention the J-10 probably costs a lot less to operate than a F-14 and is cheaper to build no doubt. Anyway the F-14 will be replaced by the F/A-18 E/F and JSF soon so it should be compared to planes that will be in service around the same time the J-10 will be. The plane sounds pretty impressive to me and may even have the edge against the F/A-18 E/F... probably not but it certainly doesn't sound like the slouch you make it out to be.

[edit on 22-2-2005 by Trent]

Originally posted by Hockeyguy567

The Chinese don't have the technology to compete with the US, yet.

And the Abrams is the best tank in the world.

[edit on 21-2-2005 by Hockeyguy567]

Uhmm the ChallengerII is generally accepted as the best Main Battle Tank in the world.

Check these stats on the J10:

www.sinodefence.com...

Its basically a troubled F16.

I shouldnt even compare it to the F14, like apples and oranges. Notice in the break down it said its attack range is only like 90km, even though its radar can pick up targets at 130km or so. This is a VERY SHORT range dog fighter at best. Too bad thats not the way air combat is fought anymore.

Its all about first look, first kill and this plane is down right terrible in those regards. I think China should stick with export on this plane to help finance purchases of Su 30's so they can actually COMPETE in modern air combat

edit for spelling

[edit on 22-2-2005 by skippytjc]

That sinodefence article was written months ago and is based upon speculation and rumor.

At the time of writing J-10 specification was classified.

Guys, dont get me wrong: The J10 is a wonderfull plane. But its 20 years too late. Planes of equal or better performance were in service already for years when this plane was being dreamed up in the mid 80's.

I definatly give China credit for designing and developing this plane. Its the first step twards better, more impressive planes later on.

But please lets not get carried away and state this plane is competitave with any new plane deployed recently or in developement now by Russia, the USA, or any of the European nations.

I will repeat: Great first entry, wonderfull first step in the world class aircraft arena so to speak. But they are about 30-40 years behind already and have some work to do.