U.K. House of Lords gives Parliament a say on May's Britex Deal

originally posted by: SprocketUK
More tosh.
China can make anything they do and much cheaper.
more silly remainer "sky is falling" rhetoric.


The only danger about brexit is people like you

The only danger here is people like you Sprocket who risk driving our economy over a cliff edge. You are dangerous. Have you any experience dealing with Chinese supply? Oh my life it's wake up time for you lot. Number one the quality of parts made in China is not up to scratch. Our standards are far superior in the West. They can't even make a 1000 pound iPhone that will last more than a couple of years if you are lucky. They make total crap.

Get a sample from China and it's reasonable, not up ti our standards but reasonable...................... Start buying off them properly and the quality then drops and I mean drops to an unusable extent. It's crap Sprocket, total Commie crap

Then if your are just so god damned lucky to get a decent supply then you are going to have to wait a very Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time. Their supply times are kak mate, totally mental. The ships even when they leave are stuck in ports due to disputes for yonks, so if it's parts you need forget it. Totally unusable in Just In Time Manufacturing................. Germany will get it over in a day my friend and the product will be very much first class

They can't make the good stuff and even if they do they are on the other side of the world. Our plants don't wait weeks my dear old Sprock, it's hours

You are totally out of touch if you honestly believe the Chinese can fill the gap. We are totally integrated with our neighbours and this works fantastically well at this moment in time. Now a few Jingonutters are goings to ruin this for us. Unblinkinbelievable

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Ironic, but I see your view of it as the very mentality that has allowed this mess to happen in the first place.

Ensnared by a comfort zone. One that was and is shrinking. For example, seeing China's quality level leaves something to be desired, I see opportunity for the UK-and the US- to fill that void. Start anew. A renaissance, if you will. Quality products are needed, yes? That's only one example. Mindset differences, is all.

Just a viewpoint from across the pond I would share.

a reply to: nwtrucker

We already do the quality NW.................................. Within 40 miles of me we make 1 in 3 of the aero engines used worldwide Rolls Royce, the Bentley cars, JCB's, Land Rovers, Jaguars, Bae all sorts of factories, world beating ceramics around, Honda and Toyota, etc, etc. We already make the best and all is very well in our game, but now these Jingoistic leavers plunge our economy into massive uncertainty and if tariffs go on our products when all these listed companies bring in a massive proportion of their parts from the EU, guess what will happen to those companies when they decide on location for manufacturing their next models? It's a no brainer

originally posted by: andy06shake
Especially if the rest of Europe and major nations fall apart just down to geography alone.

The rest of Europe won't fall apart. The EU elite won't allow it. They can see the putative nature of the EU "negotiations" with the UK, and know that they would not survive. Germany and France will be OK, alongside Luxembourg and Belgium. The rest of the EU nations are too cowed to leave, or even contemplate leaving.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

You accuse leavers of jingoistic emotion.
Our reasons are cold, factual ones.

You are the one letting emotion scare you.

Everything has do be the worst it can be because you are all unable to forsee a future where we are responsible for our own laws and not beholden to a nanny knows best, anti democratic supra national government.

Time you all grew up instead of cheer leading the enemies of democracy who are trying to ruin this country for their own, selfishness.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: nwtrucker

We already do the quality NW.................................. Within 40 miles of me we make 1 in 3 of the aero engines used worldwide Rolls Royce, the Bentley cars, JCB's, Land Rovers, Jaguars, Bae all sorts of factories, world beating ceramics around, Honda and Toyota, etc, etc. We already make the best and all is very well in our game, but now these Jingoistic leavers plunge our economy into massive uncertainty and if tariffs go on our products when all these listed companies bring in a massive proportion of their parts from the EU, guess what will happen to those companies when they decide on location for manufacturing their next models? It's a no brainer

I'm familiar with many of them and don't disagree. I suspect you have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. We have many in the U.S. who have vested interest in maintaining their income streams whether or not it is in the long term interest of the U.S..

I suspect you will win out on this. I also suspect, as things get worse between the U.S. and the EU, and they will, that the relationship between the US and the UK will erode.

Our paths differ. Sobeit.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter


Rolls Royce and Bentley are German owned. I seriously doubt that the Germans will want to countenance EU tariffs against their plants.

None of the dire warnings of Project Fear have come about. George Osborne claimed that if we voted for Brexit there would have to be an immediate Emergency Budget. Didn't happen. The sky has not fallen.

All of the Remainers' dire warnings of Armageddon have been shown to be tosh. Stop spreading the doom and disaster scenarios, it's getting tiresome.

a reply to: SprocketUK

As long as there are no tariffs going on EU exports to the UK and vice versa you can have your Brexit Sprocket, fine by me But if we become struck down by a trade dispute with our former free trade area then it is not going to bode well for my region. I don't really see any implications for you in the relaxed backwaters weaving your way down Montpellier in your steady manner but in te heart of British manufacturing around here believe me, Brexit has very real implications if things start going tits up. Only time will tell

a reply to: oldcarpy

I was talking about Rolls Royce PLC the industrial giant that makes aero and industrial engines, not that BMW subsidiary that make cars that use their logo under licence. Anyway it's all about free trade and if the Germans start putting tariffs oin exports to the UK and vice versa then massive relocation to the EU will take place in industry it s inevitable totally inevitable. We are totally integrated at the moment

a reply to: ufoorbhunter


OK, but still, no. Just no.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I just don'r see why we should meddle with something that works already and doesn't need fixing. It's like taking California, splitting it from the rest of USA, risking putting 10 % tariffs on companies importing and exporting. Where's the good in that for your local industry?

I think Trump is bang on defending US industry from unfair foreigners btw, he's taking the bull by the horns and playing Comboy

I do need the EU supply chain here I can't do with no EU tariff free products. Britain just not make the chemicals and textiles like they do in Germany and Italy, they make the best in the world. Free trade, why change it with the EU?

a reply to: nwtrucker

When/if all the cards fall and agreements deteriorate to the point when they are no longer workable.

We may have more issues and shortages to contend with that prevent old original trade agreements being reimplemented.

If Europe falls apart in any significant manner, war and anarchy might not be too far behind.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: SprocketUK

As long as there are no tariffs going on EU exports to the UK and vice versa you can have your Brexit Sprocket, fine by me

But if we become struck down by a trade dispute with our former free trade area then it is not going to bode well for my region. I don't really see any implications for you in the relaxed backwaters weaving your way down Montpellier in your steady manner but in te heart of British manufacturing around here believe me, Brexit has very real implications if things start going tits up. Only time will tell

You talk like you are the only person who ever had a job, business, mortgages, family.

We could have had free trade, but those in power are allowing their pro eu side to so hobble our government that the eu is emboldened to the point of dictating terms that will, if we accept them, make the vote to leave a hollow sham.

I'd rather be free and miss a meal than be a well fed slave.
where is your courage?

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Obviously, I agree on Trump.

California is a poor analogy. I'd put a bet on that lead would fly long before that possibility came to fruition.

Obviously, the U.S. relation with the EU is far different than the UK's. The US doesn't 'need' much of anything from Europe, whatsoever. (if there are exceptions, they prove the rule.)

A closer one would be a Canada-U.S. tariff tiff. Far more damage to the U.S. and Canada, both, if it got out of hand that is.

An overview. The average citizen doesn't share your concerns. (Your concerns are understandable) I fall into the category of average citizen. My concern, in this case, is the future health, freedom and independence-politically- from foreign nations, groups and Corporations. Having no vested interest, I can afford to see the 'big picture' as opposed to immediate personal survival/gain.

You paint a worst case scenario. It, in fact, could occur as you suggest or not. I see this as the absolute last chance for a sovereign UK. With the additional talk of a 'EU military' all future options to withdraw from the EU will be in the same area code as California's. IMO.

So it's your nation or your profit/comfort zone. It's your call, sir. Choose wisely.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: nwtrucker

When/if all the cards fall and agreements deteriorate to the point when they are no longer workable.

We may have more issues and shortages to contend with that prevent old original trade agreements being reimplemented.

If Europe falls apart in any significant manner, war and anarchy might not be too far behind.

Could very well be. I've made my case. National Sovereignty or profit. Your choice.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Thrive beats survive.

Britain will thrive after Brexit, sure some short term challenges, but we're Brits, it's in our DNA.

originally posted by: [post=23490072]SprocketUKI'd rather be free and miss a meal than be a well fed slave.
where is your courage?

The vote was for exit the EU so fair game it is game on and we have to accept democracy. Believe me many of us who voted remain are actually up for Brexit now it gone that way. That's what the people want then let us all go for it. We just need to keep free trade going with the Germans.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
Sorry but Britain is totally intertwined with the EU. You can't survive without the eU, it would take generations to build the supply chain and replace it.

I agree, to a point.

Europe ain't going away and there will be a high level of trade and social interaction even after Brexit. We will remain intertwined with countries in the EU, and them with us. However, as the negotiations are regrettably exposing, the unelected EU elite are not really very nice and appear willing to sacrifice goodwill and history, for spitefulness. At the end of the day, if France wants to sell champagne to the UK (the biggest market) then they will do so, even if the EU insist on barriers.

originally posted by: paraphi
However, as the negotiations are regrettably exposing, the unelected EU elite are not really very nice and appear willing to sacrifice goodwill and history, for spitefulness.

Agreed.
Many friends who voted remain are now pro-independence since the EU commission has been playing hard ball.
Don't # with Brits because it will only lead us to pull together.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
Sorry but Britain is totally intertwined with the EU. You can't survive without the eU, it would take generations to build the supply chain and replace it.

I agree, to a point.

Europe ain't going away and there will be a high level of trade and social interaction even after Brexit. We will remain intertwined with countries in the EU, and them with us. However, as the negotiations are regrettably exposing, the unelected EU elite are not really very nice and appear willing to sacrifice goodwill and history, for spitefulness. At the end of the day, if France wants to sell champagne to the UK (the biggest market) then they will do so, even if the EU insist on barriers.

In what way do you think the EU is being spiteful?

A genuine question as I have seen this mentioned a lot.