MH17 Joint Investigation team. Press conference Live..

a reply to: Salander

If it was cannon fire the rebels would have collected some spent heads while they were rummaging through the suitcases,
wreckage and 298 mangled corpses.. What about that rebel mobile message intercepted and published..

The beginning of the audio, Ukraine's security services say, is between Igor Bezler, a pro-Russian rebel leader, and Vasili Geranin, a man Ukraine alleges to be a Russian intelligence agent. In the first line, Bezler allegedly says "We have just shot down a plane." (This line can also be translated to "We have seen a plane shot down," but then both translations says "cossacks" —Russian volunteers—from Chernukhino road block shot it down.) The second half of the audio is between two unidentified men, named "Greek" and "Major."

mashable.com...


O and the deceased phones being answered by your rebels and valuables stolen.

www.dailymail.co.uk... ns-order-emerges-jewellery-handed-rebel-defence-fund.html

a reply to: skywatcher44


I'm not saying I know all the answers, all I'm saying is that the pictures that no longer exist in the public purview showed an airliner that had caught cannon fire, from its left rear quarter. And AAM too, left engine burning.

Having seen it from the very beginning on MSM I knew it was a major propaganda effort. NBC and ABC and probably the others devoted an entire hour to just about ONLY that event. All quoting anonymous sources, blatant propaganda effort.


It happened, but the story is bull#.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: tommyjo

Come on seriously TommyJo--just because you didn't see them doesn't mean they weren't there. I saw them and others saw them, and then others saw them and realized they obliterated the official story, and however the chain of command works in that business, had them taken down.


Come on seriously TommyJo, some of have actually seen aircraft and other objects hit by cannon fire. Maybe you have not, but I have. Seriously, some of us have seen damage from Claymore mines and other HE devices. And yes, some of us can recognize such damage.


So deal with the propaganda in your own style, as I do.

You accept the propaganda, I see through it and reject it. Seriously, some of us are able to recognize propaganda, even as some of us are completely clueless about it.


MH17 was a large propaganda effort to frame Russia. It may have served other purposes as well, but its main goal was to frame Russia.

I served in the Royal Air Force. What you think is cannon damage is simply SAM warhead fragmentation damage. No you didn't see "unique footage of MH17 being downed with its engine on fire". You are simply living in a fantasy land if you think that nobody got a copy of that footage. All you saw was footage from previous shoot downs over Ukraine that were doing the rounds on social media and ended up on some news networks.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: skywatcher44


I'm not saying I know all the answers, all I'm saying is that the pictures that no longer exist in the public purview showed an airliner that had caught cannon fire, from its left rear quarter. And AAM too, left engine burning.

Having seen it from the very beginning on MSM I knew it was a major propaganda effort. NBC and ABC and probably the others devoted an entire hour to just about ONLY that event. All quoting anonymous sources, blatant propaganda effort.


It happened, but the story is bull#.

You saw this footage which was shown on some news networks due to the fast developing news story. It was at the time labelled as MH17 footage and on some channels still is. So just a coincidence that the engine is burning and you can see a missile trail. That footage was from the 6th June 2014 and was an Antonov 30.

a reply to: tommyjo


Bully for you TommyJo. I served in the USArmy. Does that make us even?

I've seen the damage done by cannon and by AAM. Is this some sort of contest?

The video bit you provided was NOT the one that I saw in the beginning. The one I saw was amateur, slightly out of focus, but clearly it was the Boeing, white with red, and within about 2 or 3 thousand feet of the ground.

In the future, I will thank you for not telling me what I've seen or not seen.

a reply to: Salander

Hi Salander this footage must be available somewhere ? and I am intrigued to watch your reasoning for all your seemingly Pro-Russian postings on one amateur shakey Flashed for a few days upload ? Surely a newspaper caught it or a youtuber.
Against the painstaking evidence from 5 Countries, 4 of them with no axe to grind just the welfare of the deceased's families .
I have looked at all the fakes by now most Russian posted of some other sad accident..

a reply to: skywatcher44


You know, when everybody is thinking the same, nobody is thinking.

I've spent my life around flying machines, and one need not be "pro-Russian" to recognize a spiraling Boeing with one engine flaming. One need not be "pro-Russian" to recognize the signs of cannon fire.

One need not be "pro-Russian" to comprehend and appreciate propaganda. Once exposed to it for sufficient time, one can recognize propaganda when one sees it. You know, the media quoting "anonymous sources" and never providing a whiff of evidence to support their statements. Stuff like that.

Some of us are able to see through it, and as you demonstrate, some are not.

Like so much in the "news" these days, this MH17 was pure propaganda from the start. I am not unique in my ability to see propaganda for what it is.

a reply to: Salander

Like so much in the "news" these days, this MH17 was pure propaganda from the start. I am not unique in my ability to see propaganda for what it is.

Correct. Anyone can see the litany of claims you just made as Russian propaganda.

originally posted by: Salander
You know, when everybody is thinking the same, nobody is thinking.

Which I why, and against all the evidence to the contrary, I still believe the world is flat and the the Earth-disc (for that's what it is) is orbiting the Moon.

? Your logic that because the evidence says one thing it cannot be correct is (and with the greatest respect) totally mad.

298 Empties

Families of flight MH17 victims place 298 empty seats in front of Russian embassy in the Netherlands



twitter.com...

Shame Indeed.

Emotions reign supreme!

Given the Investigation team's repeat lies without evidence it is now obvious that the MH17 flight was shot down by Ukraine under order from the Netherlands highest state institutions, and NATO, in a complex plot that most likely looked like this :

Ukraine needed weapons and other war materials from NATO and the EU. The Dutch government told Poroshenko that were a jet liner aircraft to be hit by a Missile, NATO would use this as a viable reason to support Ukraine with more determination and would blame Russia for the downing of the plane.

Then, some Ukrainian military put up the show, and NATO helped them, by leading the plane off course to fly over Ukraine, otherwise the old Soviet-era Buk missile wouldn't be able to hit. Too bad the Ukrainian military left a lot of radio and phone traces about their incident .... maybe on purpose , to blackmail NATO.

The continuous insistence of the Dutch investigators to put blame on Russia, has obviously nothing to do with the original intention anymore. It's just that Rutte and his govt and maybe the King are constantly blackmailed by Ukraine.

a reply to: Salander

So, the West and TPTB are all engaging in propaganda but Russia and RT wouldn't dream of doing that? Pull the other one, it's got bells on. With the very greatest respect.

a reply to: Salander

"From the beginning, and just like the Skripal incident, the accusers have not offered a shred of evidence to prove their claims"

Really? OK. Of course, the Russian version that the two alleged perpetrators were just visiting Salisbury all the way from Russia that day to see the famous 123m Spire of Salisbury Cathedral (which, incidentally, they never got round to doing because it was snowing) was not propaganda at all? Pathetic.

How is the weather in St Petersburg today?

a reply to: paraphi

I still believe the world is flat and the the Earth-disc (for that's what it is) is orbiting the Moon.

Happy to clear this up for you:

originally posted by: Salander
Emotions reign supreme!

Belittling the families of victims of a tragedy? That's nice.

a reply to: oldcarpy

With equal respect to you, all governments can and do practice propaganda.

It's just that the western propagandists always suppress the facts, just as the BBC withdrew quickly its several early pieces showing the flight was taken down by cannon fire and probably 1 AAM.

While our guys can read an auto license tag with their fancy satellites, nowhere could they find a picture of the fanciful BUK or its obvious contrail.

It makes me sad, but the bitter truth is that the US and western powers practice deception and false flag operations very often. MH17 was one of those cases.

The EU-NATO are planning new provocations over the sky of Ukraine. EU wants more passenger jets to be destroyed by the Ukrainian military .... in the coming months, the same way that MH-17 was destroyed !