The U.S. Will Withdraw From Iran Nuclear Deal, Trump Tells Macron : NY Times

originally posted by: Cassi3l
M'okay, but ... this is all about other stuff than that
hint : Trump gives flying bird to foreign allies over Iran 'issue'
a reply to: MRinder

That is your opinion. My opinion is Trump set us free from an ineffective deal that was poorly negotiated by a Muslim sympathizer.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Iran is still a state sponsor of terrorism and a self-proclaimed enemy of the USA, as such there was no reason the US ever should have entered into any deal with them. It was a self debasing, idiotic deal.

I'm not saying that it was a good deal, it was the best that could be had given the circumstances. And it stopped them enriching uranium. Iran is a theocracy with some very odd politics (before the Shah fell, so the story goes, they drank in public and prayed in private, nowadays that's reversed) and believe it or not there are some realists in its government.
There is no way on earth that Trump will be able to negotiate a deal of any kind now. The other signatories to the deal, including the EU and the UK, have stated that the deal still stands as far as they are concerned, which is a giant middle finger to Trump and whoever the hell is currently advising him.
What else could have been done to stop them from enriching uranium? Nuking the place?

originally posted by: MRinder

originally posted by: Cassi3l
M'okay, but ... this is all about other stuff than that
hint : Trump gives flying bird to foreign allies over Iran 'issue'
a reply to: MRinder

That is your opinion. My opinion is Trump set us free from an ineffective deal that was poorly negotiated by a Muslim sympathizer.

I had no idea that the leaders of the UK, EU, Germany and France were sooper seekrit muslim-lovers!?!
Oh wait, I actually know something about this. Never mind!

So what exactly does all of this mean? How does this affect our lives in the west and how does it affect their lives in the Middle East?

I find it odd that any country that professes freedom and democracy, that is supposedly against terrorism, would do business with Iran and this is all about business and money. Do business with Iran, help out dangerous radical organizations funded by Iran.

It makes no sense, so follow the money. Iran's oil is no longer actually needed on the world stage, so they win with a hand full of worthless cards. European businesses are most certainly behind this and making the decisions it seems to me. Color me surprised that European leaders are letting their strings be controlled by Iran for fun and profit. Not...

we should learn to stop feeding the ... y'know
:@)
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Brotherman
So what exactly does all of this mean? How does this affect our lives in the west and how does it affect their lives in the Middle East?

A) The EU and the UK now have an open reason to distrust and oppose Trump. Basically he waved a middle digit at them and seems to have been surprised when they reciprocated. Let me me stress this yet again - you don't spit in the face of your allies.
B) The Middle East is now more unstable than ever before. Iran's hardliners have been strengthened after years of telling everyone that the US can't be trusted to keep their word. Israel's PM thinks that he now has a friend in the White House who will back his plays (he won't, as Trump doesn't understand what he's done and is now being advised by the ultra-hawk Neocon John Bolton. Tremble at the whiffle of his mighty 'tache!) and will possibly do something stupid.
C) The price of oil might go up, depending on what happens next.
D) The deal is still being backed by the EU, so Trump (or rather whoever is unlucky to get stuck with this hot potato) needs to work out how sanctions will affect EU companies that have links to Iran.

In a nutshell? THIS WAS A MORONIC MOVE.

It's more about the end game ...
Who will - ultimately - control and distribute middle-eastern oïl ?
a reply to: Blaine91555

Bullet in the foot for Trump

(home) Public Percieved Benefit = Excellent !!
(home) Public Real Benefit = -1 at best

It's a very dangerous and
irresponsable road
that Trump has chosen
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Cassi3l
Bullet in the foot for Trump

(home) Public Percieved Benefit = Excellent !!
(home) Public Real Benefit = -1 at best

It's a very dangerous and
irresponsable road
that Trump has chosen
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

And what exactly is so dangerous about it?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: howtonhawky

Well that's a ringing endorsement for maintaining a deal if I ever heard one... "it could have been a worse deal."

I don't see anyone involved in this calling for billions and billions of citizens' money to be paid to corporations so please, pick up the straw man and carry him yonder to a topic where he actually is pertinent.

You call em strawmen for convience

i call it truth cause it is truth

you and many others get outraged over a pallet of cash givin to iran while ignoring the pallets of cash givin to corporations

kinda like knee jerking over 40 people killed in syria while ignoring that chicago has many more murders.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Iran is still a state sponsor of terrorism and a self-proclaimed enemy of the USA, as such there was no reason the US ever should have entered into any deal with them. It was a self debasing, idiotic deal.

I'm not saying that it was a good deal, it was the best that could be had given the circumstances. And it stopped them enriching uranium. Iran is a theocracy with some very odd politics (before the Shah fell, so the story goes, they drank in public and prayed in private, nowadays that's reversed) and believe it or not there are some realists in its government.
There is no way on earth that Trump will be able to negotiate a deal of any kind now. The other signatories to the deal, including the EU and the UK, have stated that the deal still stands as far as they are concerned, which is a giant middle finger to Trump and whoever the hell is currently advising him.
What else could have been done to stop them from enriching uranium? Nuking the place?

Iran's government doesn't run Iran, the Ayatollahs do and none of them are even remotely "moderate." Iran is the reverse of Saudi Arabia, a country in which the clerics run the local religion while the royal government actually rules everything else.

I don't know the answer here, but bending over and grabbing our ankles because Iran issued threats and *may* enrich uranium isn't the American way nor is it a path to a solution that counts as a win to the US. At this point it is up to Iran whether or not Tehran receives freedom.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
kinda like knee jerking over 40 people killed in syria while ignoring that chicago has many more murders.

Huh? You have the wrong person here, man. I don't recall saying anything about Syrian dead and it doesn't sound like something I'd get too fussed over unless they were Americans.

a reply to: Cassi3l

Iran's oil is meaningless now is it not? The world does not need it. That may be why Iran wants to take over the Middle East, but who needs Iran unless they do actually take over the Middle East?

Oil will have less and less meaning before long. The Middle East will have very little value to the West anymore. Honestly right now as far as the US is concerned, we don't need anyone's oil or natural gas but our own. We have centuries worth sitting in the ground and we know where it is.

A common thought for the last thirty years is that we are in bed with certain countries just long enough to suck up their oil before we use our own. I suppose the situation is different for European countries with no oil of their own to rely on.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Question , Would Russia or China be OK with a Third World Country with the Ability to Launch ICBM Nuclear Tipped Missiles at them , or , would they see that as Totally Unacceptable as does President Trump ?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: howtonhawky
kinda like knee jerking over 40 people killed in syria while ignoring that chicago has many more murders.

Huh? You have the wrong person here, man. I don't recall saying anything about Syrian dead and it doesn't sound like something I'd get too fussed over unless they were Americans.

correct
i was thinking in general terms as us being americans and supporting such recent actions.

so why care about iran other than making sure they are not building bomb?

we are not gonna get that money back from them and any pressure we put on them now is a negative against humanity in many cases of sanctions.

it just seems like we are poking all the hotspots on the map

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Brotherman
So what exactly does all of this mean? How does this affect our lives in the west and how does it affect their lives in the Middle East?

A) The EU and the UK now have an open reason to distrust and oppose Trump. Basically he waved a middle digit at them and seems to have been surprised when they reciprocated. Let me me stress this yet again - you don't spit in the face of your allies.
B) The Middle East is now more unstable than ever before. Iran's hardliners have been strengthened after years of telling everyone that the US can't be trusted to keep their word. Israel's PM thinks that he now has a friend in the White House who will back his plays (he won't, as Trump doesn't understand what he's done and is now being advised by the ultra-hawk Neocon John Bolton. Tremble at the whiffle of his mighty 'tache!) and will possibly do something stupid.
C) The price of oil might go up, depending on what happens next.
D) The deal is still being backed by the EU, so Trump (or rather whoever is unlucky to get stuck with this hot potato) needs to work out how sanctions will affect EU companies that have links to Iran.

In a nutshell? THIS WAS A MORONIC MOVE.

A) European countries will work to make a deal that Trump wants. They have no choice. Whether they like it or not, the US calls the tune. If they try and 'spit in the face' of the USA (which clearly they would never do), their companies will be decimated. They are not going to choose the Iranian economy over the US and they have zero leverage. As for Trump spitting in their faces, well, no. He spit in Obama's face and there is nothing Barry can do about it either, because he never got support for his deal in the first place. If the UK, France Germany were stupid enough to negotiate a deal with the US that did not involve a proper treaty ratified by Congress, then that's on them. Same goes for Iran. Trump has not gone back on a deal the US made. He has nullified a deal that Obama made without the proper support.

B) Actually, the middle east is far more stable than at it's worst under Bush and Obama. Ask the people who are no longer living under the rule of ISIS.

C) It might also go down. ONly an idiot pretends to know what the market will do.

D) Trump has already said how it will effect EU companies. They'll lose out by being sanctioned themselves. Some of the major Western players have already said they are now reviewing their deals. None of them will be prepared to be excluded by the US.

The bottom line is that the USA holds ALL the cards and Trump is playing them. Iran only has two choices. Drop nuclear ambitions or get destroyed and Europe, Russia and China can't save them.

We've all heard the idiot talking heads wrt to NK... oh yeah, moronic tactics by Trump, apparently. Well, they are back in their boxes now eating crow. Same is going to happen here because for the first time in decades the US actually has a backbone. In the long run that makes us all safer, instead of following the spineless 'Neville Chamberlain' approach.

Glad we got out of this bad deal.

Will they return the billions of dollars that idiot Obama gave them?

I'll do this once, because i'm nice, ok ?

EVERYBODY
wants Iran's oïl reserves for themselves
EVERBODY
ok, got that ?

that's the big dirty secret
in world politics 101

The big players are all there,
but they are using soft 'politics'
big players = china, russsia, australia, 'Europe', 'Latin America', Canada, gosh, the USA !

The Caspian oïl pipeline has been on the books for years,
With mon$y, physical man power and brains in country from each player
building infrastructure + tech ...
Could be speeded up

For years, the M/E has been floating the idea
of creating a basket of currencies
excluding the dollar ...
could be speeded up

The dollar is fragile
US debt is cripling

Did you know, your personal "debt to your country" is currentlty 64K, and it's mounting ?

These are but a few examples of unintended payback
that are potential 'complications' due to Trumps actions

a reply to: MRinder

a reply to: Cassi3l

Thank you Cassi3l. However, I would think that could happen regardless of whether we pulled out of this deal or not. They aren't interdependent on one another.