SCI/TECH: U.S. Still Silencing Scientists

Wow, Kegs. Excellent research!

,,,and now we've got a Bush appointed FDA, federal leagislation that blocks class action suits in states, and Vioxx is coming back on the market...

Hmmm. Guess all those other dangerous drugs won't get gone either.

The Plot Thickens

Very interesting reading. It will be both entertaining and educational to see how all this turns out.

200 scientists? Somebody has some 'splainin' to do...

"For biologists who do endangered species analysis, my experience is that the majority of them are ordered to reverse their conclusions [if they favor listing]. There are other biologists who will do it if you won't," said the biologist, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

This is the best news I've heard in quite some time. We're having a real problem here in New Mexico over the health of a species of minnows in the Rio Grande. It's not that they don't have plenty of minnows in protected environments, it's just that some folks think that farmers and ranchers shouldn't get the river water they need because those minnows that live in the river might not have enough to swim around in.

We have a forest, called the bosque, that runs along the Rio Grande here that is just a really beautiful place to walk, run, bike and whatnot, but it has to be maintained properly to reduce the fire hazard. For the last few years, we have had several fires in the bosque that have destroyed not only the trees, but homes and other property, as well.

It seems that the maintenance of the bosque is hampered because there is a bird that's endangered that's supposed to live there. No one's seen one for very many years, but you never know there might be a couple in there somewhere, so we just just let the bosque grow thick with underbrush so a couple of birds no one has seen can live there, maybe, and we do the best we can to put them out before someone's house or business is burned down or someone dies. There's a children's shelter down there that had to evacuated twice in about a week's time a couple of years ago. That's cool. Just don't disturb them birds.



[edit on 05/2/19 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

It seems that the maintenance of the bosque is hampered because there is a bird that's endangered that's supposed to live there. No one's seen one for very many years, but you never know there might be a couple in there somewhere, so we just just let the bosque grow thick with underbrush so a couple of birds no one has seen can live there, maybe, and we do the best we can to put them out before someone's house or business is burned down or someone dies. There's a children's shelter down there that had to evacuated twice in about a week's time a couple of years ago. That's cool. Just don't disturb them birds.



[edit on 05/2/19 by GradyPhilpott]

Grady, thanks for a fine example of hwat I was saying about getting "politics" out of science. For many years ultra left enviro-nuts have USED science to further "their" agenda. It all started with a FAKE book about DDT. Everyone know the story of how DDT was destroying the ecosystem back in the 60's. But few know the data was all FAKE as the author has finally admitted. DDT was never found to be causing the genetic mutations it was blamed for.

It is sad so many on this site are so "braindead" they can't see the truth. Liberalism is a mental disorder. The entire existence of science is for the betterment of mankind, not the suppression. The endangered species act is a complete joke and should be repealed. The fish and wildlife department is over run with "enviro-hero" delusional morons. They need to be silenced. Well in fact the entire department should be closed.

[edit on 19-2-2005 by DrHoracid]

I never really trust someone with an agenda, extreme political view, funding from political organizations & foreign governments, or with products and books to sell.

Scientists are people too.

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IMO - Scientists at Game and Fish are gagged because they're finding Mad Cow in wildlife.

FYI - The first cases of prion disease in fish were reported in the USA in 1981, in steelhead trout - after being found in domestic turkeys in 1980, also in the USA:


* “The ultrastructure of spontaneous coronary arterial lesions in steelhead trout (Salmo gairdneri).” House EW, Benditt EP. Am J Pathol. 1981 Sep;104(3):250-7. PMID: 7294154

* “The occurrence of fibromuscular dysplasia in the arteries of domestic turkeys.” Julian LM. Am J Pathol. 1980 Nov;101(2):415-24. PMID: 7435545



The same disease spread to Japan by 1996:

* “Fibromuscular dysplasia in intramuscular arteries of Japanese quail (Coturnix coturnix japonica).” Braga IS 3rd, Tanaka S, Itakura C, Mizutani M. J Comp Pathol. 1996 Feb;114(2):123-30. PMID: 8920213


Wyoming Game and Fish especially is in deep doodoo because they're talking publicly about the MadCow-prion epidemic - and want to start regulating the disposal of deer and elk carcasses.

The Mad Cow "chronic wasting disease" infects deer and elk is epidemic in the US - found in wild herds in Wyoming and Colorado, and also Nebraska, New Mexico, Illinois, South Dakota, Utah and Wisconsin. It has spread to domestic herds in Colorado, Montana and other states.

"Mad Cow" Spreading in Deer and Elk


As anyone who's up on the science knows - chemical contamination and other pollution makes prions mutate into new strains, and speeds progression.



US scientists are being silenced to prevent the public from finding out that the whole friggin continent is infected - and the diseases are mutating out of control. That's political intervention in science.



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It's all a neat package - silence scientists, rewrite the law, curb civil liberties, take power away from the states. Instate and protect international corporations as US rulers.


Vioxx Back Despite Dangers

On the heels of Anti-Class Action legislation signed yesterday, an FDA panel voted "to allow sales of the popular painkillers Vioxx, Celebrex and Bextra, despite acknowledging the risks they pose for heart problems." The FDA panel appointed by the Bush administration claims that the benefits outweigh the risks..


Bush Pushes to Limit Class-Action Suits

FDA to Create Drug Safety Oversight Board

Merck and Vioxx: A Twisted Tale of Cover-ups, Pork and Profits

another thumbs-up thread. But sof, you make want to see my doc for some prozac. Keep it up, we need to know.

Originally posted by kazi
another thumbs-up thread. But sof, you make want to see my doc for some prozac.

The feeling passes. Trust me.

Keep it up, we need to know.

Thanks. I think so too. There are so many impacts, most we don't see right away. For example, murder charges wrongfully made against parents for sudden death in infants - check out this thread:

Woman who killed daughter to be sterilized!


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Originally posted by DrHoracid

Grady, thanks for a fine example of hwat I was saying about getting "politics" out of science. For many years ultra left enviro-nuts have USED science to further "their" agenda. It all started with a FAKE book about DDT. Everyone know the story of how DDT was destroying the ecosystem back in the 60's. But few know the data was all FAKE as the author has finally admitted. DDT was never found to be causing the genetic mutations it was blamed for.

It is sad so many on this site are so "braindead" they can't see the truth. Liberalism is a mental disorder. The entire existence of science is for the betterment of mankind, not the suppression. The endangered species act is a complete joke and should be repealed. The fish and wildlife department is over run with "enviro-hero" delusional morons. They need to be silenced. Well in fact the entire department should be closed.

[edit on 19-2-2005 by DrHoracid]

I thought you said you didn't like to politicize the science? (liberalism is a mental disorder?)

links please.... if you are going to spout dangerous nonsense,, please at least list a source like rense, that people can check and make fun of

My research yeilded no such DDT test being faked... in fact the CDC and the EPA still list it as a very dangerous and persistant toxin....

DDT is DEATH

I could also go into the variety of common (or recently common) chemicals that we all have in our house, that are turning up in womens breast milk...

now how am i gonna eat my cereal?

I understand totally the frustration of dealing with loss of jobs, and loss of conveinance just to protect the ugly faced stink worm... afterall, maybe some species were just not meant to survive....

but saying that the entire reason for science is the betterment of mankind only covers one end of that equation...
the other end, is that we have to be able to undo scientifically, whatever we screw up scientifically...

unless you want: increases incidence of birth defects, exotic cancers, super viruses, antibiotic resistant bacteria... and various deadly mutations of prions....
golly wally, sounds like a conservative heaven doesn't it? nothing of the sort...
it is hell for libs and cons... so politics doesn't really effect it... but ignorance does...

DDT is DEATH

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong

My research yeilded no such DDT test being faked... in fact the CDC and the EPA still list it as a very dangerous and persistant toxin....

DDT is DEATH

I could also go into the variety of common (or recently common) chemicals that we all have in our house, that are turning up in womens breast milk...

now how am i gonna eat my cereal?

Absolutely true about DDT, Laz - thanks for picking up on that. ...But ahem, the cereal thing? ...There are children here, marginally radioactive and riddled with prions and heavy metals true, but we must guard and protect their morality, understand?





DDT is DEATH

[edit on 21-2-2005 by soficrow]

Yeah... about the cereal thing... sorry sofi,
dark humor is my forte or downfall...
In all seriousness, i am switching to soy milk, due to Hormones in cows milk that scientists have found causes increases in estrogen sensitive cancers. As well as cross gender traits in other species.

synthetic hormones making hermaphrodites..

I will paraphrase for all the members that "don't want to know the info being censored from them".
here is the part they didn't censor... the exact locations of the broad contamination is censored to a large degree.

paraphrase from link: synthetic hormones being released into nature via pesticides and/or waste disposal cause ANY male species that is exposed to develop reproductive disorders, and in fact take on many female charachteristics... sometimes this actually causes a shrinking of the male sexual organ to such a small size that reproduction becomes physically impossible...
it has been studied in fish, alligators, birds, and small mammals. similiar results in each... just from being in an area that is contaminated for a short time. (the contaminants are absorbed by fat within the body).

Just yesterday, I saw a news report that male bottom feeding fish pulled from a river not far from me, have defective eggs forming where sperm should be (a massive defect)... they expect this rivers fish population to be decimated by next year...
another food source bites the dust...
at this pace, we all might starve to death... or be sterilized into oblivion...

the scientists being silenced, might just have info that we need to know... but Monsanto and Dow wont let them...
wouldn't you want to know what they want to tell?

or maybe the danger to male prowess is a false info conspiracy started by the "eco nutters"?
I know who I beleive... the ones being silenced by the people who pollute our environment.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Yeah... about the cereal thing... sorry sofi,
dark humor is my forte or downfall...

I laughed. It was funny. ...but I guess my joke was a little obtuse, huh? The one about how "we should protect our kids' morality but it's okay to poison them."

paraphrase from link: synthetic hormones being released into nature via pesticides and/or waste disposal cause ANY male species that is exposed to develop reproductive disorders, and in fact take on many female charachteristics... sometimes this actually causes a shrinking of the male sexual organ to such a small size that reproduction becomes physically impossible...
it has been studied in fish, alligators, birds, and small mammals. similiar results in each... just from being in an area that is contaminated for a short time. (the contaminants are absorbed by fat within the body).

Yeah, those hormones really get men - and sorry boys, size does count. Also FYI - hormones affect women too. 30 years ago girls hit puberty around the age of 14 - then the "normal" age was dropped to 12, then 9 - now it's at 7. ....? WTF?

...So we just redefine what's 'normal' and roll along. So much for 7 inches. Some guys are lucky to see 4. Meanwhile, everyone's obese and girls get boobs before they can read. But it's not in the water.



Watta world.

Yo laz the short..........hormones injected into dairy cattle to keep them making milk is the real female evil hormone screwing up the environment.

And I like corn flakes the same way there shorty.........

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Return of science and not political activisim. Science has been corrupted by the liberal agenda for 40 years now.

I am a scientist and I don't see the libral agenda in science. It is your rabid right wing imagination that makes you think so.

It's time science return to science.

What the heck is that supposed to mean. Hubble has done some of the most important astronomy, now this project is killed by the administration for fiscal reasons. You know full well where the money went. Return science to science, my r-se.

If a radical enviro wants to save the wetlands then go save the wetlands. Just don't do it on MY tax dollars.

You obviously don't give a flying toss about the environment. Typicall of the callous and arrogant right wing nut.

The utlra left has ruined academia, get politic out of the classrooms.....

You don't know jack about the academia (and a lot of other things). The US academia is still top notch.

The CNN article today describes how the Bush administration is destroying the real space research and all that. The stupid Mars agenda "eats everybody's lunch".

Originally posted by DrHoracid

...hormones injected into dairy cattle to keep them making milk is the real female evil hormone screwing up the environment.

Yes. As are the hormone-like components of pesticides and other environmental contaminants. And I'm not even going to talk about Mad Cow.

PS. Be careful DrH, your inconsistencies are showing.


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Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by DrHoracid

...hormones injected into dairy cattle to keep them making milk is the real female evil hormone screwing up the environment.

Yes. As are the hormone-like components of pesticides and other environmental contaminants. And I'm not even going to talk about Mad Cow.

PS. Be careful DrH, your inconsistencies are showing.

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ZZZIIPPPPPPPPPP, stop looking!!!!!

No sythetic hormone components are real, the myth of the tie to DDT isn't. Near-Estrogen contamination is a real issue and has many sources. DDT is a stable compound.

Originally posted by DrHoracid

ZZZIIPPPPPPPPPP, stop looking!!!!!

No sythetic hormone components are real, the myth of the tie to DDT isn't. Near-Estrogen contamination is a real issue and has many sources. DDT is a stable compound.

Come on Doc... come to the light side...
the dark side holds much temptation... but the light side is truth...

and besides... the Big companies aren't going to let you in on their scam... so there is no profit in the dark side...

come on doc... you know you feel it... tuggin at you.... it is your conscience...
come to the light, come to the light.... we like you here.... come over... feel the force....

DDT and a less toxic variant DDE are the main culprits in a major alligator research project, that proved the "near estrogins" resulting from the contamination are the reason for the "wee willy" alligator problem... all those poor female alligators... the alligators in that particular swamp have stopped breeding altogether, and will soon die out.
unless someone wants to aid with some alligator husbandry... any volunteers? anybody?...

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
the alligators in that particular swamp have stopped breeding altogether, and will soon die out.
unless someone wants to aid with some alligator husbandry... any volunteers? anybody?...

How would that work, exactly? (DrH asked me to ask you. He's shy.)

Between Denver IA, the murder of scientists, mad cow and now the supression of scientific survivors to freely meet with WHO I'm finding it all disturbing. Why isn't congress appointing special investigators?

I have been noticing the media seems to leave these and other 'high-end' news worthy reporting out of its daily programing.

Dallas