Iowa set to ban abortions after six weeks

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Bluntone22

There are exceptions in the bill for rape, incest and the mothers health.

To me, those exceptions undermine the moral precedent of this entire bill. Are the products of rape and incest less than human?

You want women to have kids that were a result of the worst experience in their lives? Violated in ways a man can't imagine? Adding to the trauma that they had?

How can I point to one fetus and say "you should have rights because you are a developing human being without a voice", then point to another fetus and say "you shouldn't have rights because your mother was raped" ???

And yet you can point at a woman and say “you have no right to bodily autonomy and self determination” because she’s an incubator for 9 months

At the same time a man is held financially responsible after the baby is born but get no say in the abortion process.

Thus the saying, "Don't be silly. Wrap your Willie." A man doesn't want kids? He can take action to prevent it PRIOR to having sex.

ETA: I have 3 kids with one woman. My youngest brother has 3 with 3 different women. He didn't protect himself and paid through the nose for his kids.

Erm, a woman can take action to prevent it prior to having sex too. /scratches head

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: intrepid

Sounds like the girls didn't protect themselves eithet.

Yup. That's why responsibility should be taken before sex. Mind you we lived in an area that was rife with women getting pregnant so as to have others pay their way. He should have known better.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: dug88

Yes yes, it's terrible.
So have you been doing anything to stop the use of depleted uranium or anything else to make the world a better place?
Saving any African kids that are starving?
Housing any refugees?

Nope but I also don't sit here and babble on about how horrible abortion is cause...babies dying.

It seems like people forget...prior to 100 years ago a lot of babies died for various reasons and in many places in the world today still do. It was always just kind of accepted the parent's life came first. An adult can make more babies. A parentless baby is dead anyway.

Abortion has existed for thousands of years whether it's been surgery, herbal remedies or whatnot, because people have always understood you need resources to raise a child...I mean # even animals understand that hence why babies are left to die or just #ing eaten during times of food scarcity.

a reply to: Bluntone22

i don't think abortion is the problem. this procedure is sometimes necessary. the problem as i see it, is that abortion is being used as birth control. instead of going on the pill, using condoms, vasectomy, abstinence, or the many other options out there, people are going straight to abortion.

the industry shouldn't be as big as it is, but here we are.

originally posted by: subfab
a reply to: Bluntone22

i don't think abortion is the problem. this procedure is sometimes necessary. the problem as i see it, is that abortion is being used as birth control. instead of going on the pill, using condoms, vasectomy, abstinence, or the many other options out there, people are going straight to abortion.

the industry shouldn't be as big as it is, but here we are.

Exactly. Responsibility should be taken, by both the men or women, prior to conception. People start doing that though and this issue would dry up.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Bone75

is it just the rape exception you have an issue with? or do you think it's perfectly fine to have women suffer permanent health problems because of pregnancy or it's okay for force children to have children because some man couldn't keep their hands off them?

If you are honestly in fear that I am about to kill you, then you have the right to defend yourself with lethal force.

If I'm impeding your ability to finish school or get a job, or even if my presence reminds you of someone who hurt you, you do not.

The same should apply to abortion.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Another exercise in hypocrisy from the "keep government out of people's lives" crowd. Sadly, it's not even a surprise any more.

Maybe a fetus can feel fear, maybe not. At our current level of technology, we do not have that answer.

It is for damn sure a young child feels fear, for instance while being molested by the fifth Uncle Bob they've had, or being raped by same, or being left alone in a house while parents that did not want and were not ready to have a child are off doing whatever.

NO method of contraception is 100%, not even abstention (see Birth of Jesus). To force a woman to bring a child into the world when she is not ready to is the height of stupid, intrusive, corrupt government. But of course none of that matters when it's all about "saving babies!". As if we don't have enough human babies on this planet already. Over-breeding is the root of why humans won't be around very long, on an historical scale.

But we should recognize the reality behind this... they do not give a good goddamn about children, this is just another shiny object to keep people distracted from the filth that passes for government in this 21st century America.

a reply to: Open_Minded Skeptic

Why do people assume that if a woman doesn't want a baby she will automatically abuse or neglect the baby?

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Open_Minded Skeptic

Why do people assume that if a woman doesn't want a baby she will automatically abuse or neglect the baby?

Because it happens fairly regularly and believe it or not most people are actually pretty good at looking at the world around them and actually see # that happens instead of living in a magic Jesus bubble of happiness and America.

originally posted by: Arnie123
This is a good bill. The "heartbeat" bill, appropriate indeed. Hope they sign it.

Yeah, great idea, force children upon people who don’t want them. What could possibly go wrong there. The hill jacks in Iowa need to focus on their state government which is now broke thanks to these religiously insane morons.

relax, nobody is trying to take abortions away......

originally posted by: network dude
relax, nobody is trying to take abortions away......

I believe that to be true. Even the Republicans in Iowa do not give two #s about abortion.

Iowa has a large population of evangelical Christians and they are a very vocal bunch. Not only do they show up to vote on election day, they push politics within the churches to their captive audiences.

So this vote within the Iowa legislature is much more about appearances and narratives than it is about anything else.

well, the gov signed it...

www.cbsnews.com...

originally posted by: dawnstar
well, the gov signed it...

www.cbsnews.com...

This was expected. Her comments give some credibility to my previous post.

This was not about abortion or life. This was about politics and optics.

a reply to: Bluntone22

States Rights Man , If you can Legalize Weed in your State , then Another can put Restrictions on Abortions . Ain't America Grand ?

originally posted by: fiverx313
six weeks is ridiculous... but they'll just keep pushing and pushing anyway. that's half of why so many people support trump no matter what he does, they're hoping for another supreme court justice for their team so they can roll back the clock and make abortion illegal.

It's a lot like liberal gun-grabbers. Once they start setting 'common sense' restrictions they will just keep going. No restrictions for guns or baby murder!

Oh goody, I get to make a bunch of ignorant men supporting this 6 week limit -- who should be ashamed they're this reproductive system stupid -- very uncomfortable with my personal menstrual cycle patterns to illustrate why this bill is retarded through and through!

< rubs hands in glee & cackles >

Here's last year's & this year's cycles. Pay close attention to the lengths.

February 14, 2018 through April 13, 2018 -- cycle length 59 days
January 17, 2018 through February 13, 2018 -- cycle length 28 days
December 17, 2017 through January 16, 2018 -- cycle length 31 days
November 2, 2017 through December 16, 2017 -- cycle length 45 days
October 6, 2017 through November 1, 2017 -- cycle length 27 days
August 26, 2017 through October 5, 2017 -- cycle length 41 days
July 29, 2017 through August 25, 2017 -- cycle length 28 days
July 1, 2017 trough July 28 -- cycle length 28 days
May 30, 2017 through June 30, 2017 -- cycle length 32 days
April 30, 2017 through May 29, 2017 -- cycle length 30 days
March 25, 2017 through April 29, 2017 -- cycle length 36 days
February 16, 2017 through March 25, 2017 -- cycle length 37 days
January 18, 2017 through February 15, 2017 -- cycle length 29 days

See the pattern in the cycle lengths there? No? That's because I don't really have a reliable one, my menstrual cycle does it's own thing. I'm not particularly worried about getting knocked up again because I had those ol' tubes cut & burned, I'd be surprised (and immediately play the Powerball) if anything ever made it through that much scar tissue brick wall.

However.
The following is where ignorant people dribbling verbal diarrhea out their mouths about how people should know by six weeks need to STFU and listen damn good.

That's not enough time.
A cycle, and therefore also time into a pregnancy is counted from the first day of a cycle, i.e when the period begins. NOT when it ends. Therefore, 6 weeks after cycle beginning is when that cutoff would fall. It is this method used to estimate a prelim due date in conjunction with scans, and due to development speed & skill of the doctor dating it, can actually set a woman's date closer or further week by week. This week's 7 week fetus can suddenly be a 6 week one or an 8 week one next week, depends on who's looking at it & how they're going to classify the growth in weeks. In other words, it's a tad bit arbitrary for a while early on.

Time for some fun! Do some kindergarten math now. How many days in a week? 7, that's right. How many days in 6 weeks? 42, that's right, gold star for you!

Now reference my cycle records above. Do we see the problem in this new limit yet? If not, you're not even trying now. For folks like me, that would mean I would not notice anything was off for upwards of 2 months because my coochie doesn't play by nice, even, predictable numbers like nitwits assume they all do. There's MANY women with cycles like this, too. Be it PCOS, hormone issues in general, or just a whacked uterus with a mind of its own.

Also, you have no idea when conception was, it's not like that can be felt outside of the fun time it takes to get the swimmer out of the gate there. Those buggers can fart around in there for several days before getting to the point, it's not an immediate process if there's no needle & 'scope.

Therefore, you have to consider the next, and most important thing to eyeball -- popping a positive on a piss test. That requires HCG, or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin. It's the hormone put out to signal pregnancy that is detected on pee tests and in blood tests. These can take up to 8 weeks, or longer to be in high enough numbers to detect. so depending on when someone bumped uglies, it's going to be well past the 6 week cutoff already when someone finds out. That was me, BTW. First kid didn't net me a positive stick test until 7 weeks, second kid 8 and a half.

If I were seeking an abortion, I'm well within my rights to reserve the right to be a little pissed off at that government time frame considering how long it took for the HCG to build up enough to be detectable.

originally posted by: dawnstar
well, the gov signed it...

www.cbsnews.com...

Well that sucks.

When this bill gets sent to the Supreme Court, Republicans are going to realize they shot themselves in the foot with this.
By putting those exceptions in there, they just destroyed our entire argument against abortion.

Y'all might not see the hypocrisy in it, but SCOTUS certainly will.

originally posted by: dawnstar
well, the gov signed it...

www.cbsnews.com...

"this is bigger than just a law"

We all know what that means.

originally posted by: dawnstar
well, the gov signed it...

www.cbsnews.com...

Super news. Pence was right when he said that the country was going to move towards protecting life. Let's hope more states follow suit to end America's disgrace or millions of lives snuffed out. This is also a great way to push the whole debate back to the SC. Time for Gorsuch to some through.
So now that it is law all can support it.