The Serious 9/11 Arguments Compilation.

a reply to: neutronflux

The Towers did not collapse through the path of greatest resistance.

Did you mean to type this?

So, 90+ undamaged fully intact floors isn't the greatest resistance? That is the only path the tower could have taken to encounter the greatest resistance.

An intact block of 12 floors drops on the floors below that.
The 6 floors below seemed to have no resistance.
The remaining allegedly unaffected floors below have no resistance as well.
The whole tower collapses in about 12 seconds.
A 'free' fall from 415 meters would take about 10 seconds.

originally posted by: samkent
Arguments do not constitute evidence.
Hearing booms do not prove explosives.

This has been gone over for 17 years.
Still no "evidence". Just speculation based on conjecture.

Whatever it is you just tried to say ended up coming out as several logical fallacies..conflicting statements and contradictory arguments are also not proof of anything.I'll give a D + for effort though.

a reply to: kyleplatinum

As in Richard Gage and this

www1.ae911truth.org...

straight down through what should have been the path of greatest resistance – the 80,000 tons of structural steel

The total collapse of the towers’ floor system while large lengths of vertical columns stood whole seconds gives witness the towers collapsed through the floor system. A floor system only supported at the ends. No mid length support. The columns tumbled in after the complete collapse of the floor system.

So the towes did not fall through the vertical columns that where never cut by CD.

The towers collapse because 29 floors for one tower, and 11 floors for the other tower, collapsed into a floor system that could only handle the equivalent dynamic load of 6 falling floors. The towers columns buckled relative to the jet impact area, sent the top portions down into floor systems that could not handle the load. The dynamic load bent, tore, and shared floor connections from the vertical columns.

a reply to: kyleplatinum

The falling mass only hit one floor at a time. The first impacted floor tried to transfer the load to the vertical columns, but the floor connections failed. The dynamic load increased with ever failed floor. And there was resistance. Even AE 9/11 Truth has changed their tune to the towers fell at 2/3rds the rate of free fall.

Below is closer to video evidence.

www.skeptic.com...

3WHAT ABOUT THE ALMOST FREE-FALL COLLAPSE OF THE TWIN TOWERS? The key is the “almost” modifier. If I told you I was making almost $100,000 and you found out I was making only $67,000, you’d say I was exaggerating. So stop exaggerating the collapse speed of the WTC Towers! The 80,000 tons of structural steel slowed down the collapses of the Twin Towers to about ⅔ (two-thirds) of free-fall.3 And the core collapsed at about 40% of free-fall speed, coming down last.4 According to Richard Gage: “To bring a building symmetrically down, what we have to do is remove the core columns.” But on 9/11 the stronger core columns came down last, which violates this supposed most fundamental rule of controlled demolition.

a reply to: kyleplatinum

It’s never been about the official story. For me, it’s always been little credibility in the truth movement narratives. Especially for the collapse of the towers.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

What is a logical fallacy about “arguments do not equal evidence “???


Arguments do not equal evidence..


The explosions could come from any number of sources.. for one the fact ABUILDING WAS FALLING... lol

There is no payoff worth the expense and risk of orchestrating 911 that couldn’t have been achieved far more easily than ramming 3 planes into buildings...


Don’t you write something about “the path of least resistance?”

911 wasn’t the path of least resistance...

a reply to: neutronflux

I just look at the 1+1=2 and the cost benefit analysis..

What motivation could only be easiest achieved by orcastrating 911???

None I can think of...


If it was for money then your telling me they could orcastrate and maintain 911, but they didn’t have access to the money printers?!?!!


If it was to destroy files? So they didn’t have a shredder???lol

If it was to start a war there are way easier ways...


None of it adds up logistically.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Unfortunately, it’s not about truth. Its about how the likes of Richard Gage and Dr Wood can remain relevant to get invited to speaking engagements and for books sales. To keep donations rolling into groups like AE truth.

originally posted by: Fermy
Excellent work there LaBTop, it's gone very quiet all of a sudden. No usual suspects. How telling.

The problem is that when LaBTop is including another steel frame that collapsed from fire and claiming only one did and claiming that a building with at least a ten storey gash down one face had only a small corner hole in it then it's clear that this thread is just another poorly reseached waste of time

a reply to: mrthumpy


Goodbye, enjoy your holiday.

originally posted by: Fermy
a reply to: mrthumpy


Goodbye, enjoy your holiday.

Just got back thanks. Had a lovely couple of weeks

Richard Gage pushing thermite.....

Christina Tobin Interviews Richard Gage, Founder of Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth
The Free and Equal Elections Foundation
m.youtube.com...

Another multistory building collapse that is fire related where the building did not fall over like a tree.

Block of flats collapses in Sao Paulo, Brazil, after fire rips through building

A 26-storey building has collapsed after a huge fire tore through it in Sao Paulo, Brazil

metro.co.uk...

Originally posted by: JoshuaCox
A reply to: Thoseaintcontrails

How much more than the cost of the buildings would any operation to orchestrate AND THEN MAINTAIN the conspiracy be???
Just an insane amount more..
People don’t do things that cost billions of dollars without it being an investment. There has to be a guarantee they will be successful and it will pay off .. and pay off way more than the Markets could do so legitimately..
I don’t see there is any scenario where 911 was the path of least resistance or the best option to get anything done.
Any motivation you can come up with , I can think of an easier way than 911 to achieve the same goal.

Didn't even take the time to read the E.P. Heidner link I provided ?

There's your scenario.
The first 6 pages already.
The rest of his 59 pages is his extensive filling-in of the details, for the really interested, curious ones.

Any motivation you can come up with , I can think of an easier way than 911 to achieve the same goal.

Well, then give us any better way than 9/11, for the main players, to correct that 1991 sneaky $240 billion in illegal bonds foreplay to 9/11, and turn it the day after 9/11 into trillions of dollars of now legal Treasury Notes, now backed by US tax payers :

E.P. Heidner, bottom Page 5 : While accomplishing its objective – bringing about the demise of the Soviet Union – the program also seems to have lined the pockets of the individuals that executed this policy, at US taxpayer expense. This was done to the tune of a mere $240 billion dollars in covert and allegedly illegal bonds, which appear to have been replaced with Treasury notes backed by U.S. taxpayers in the aftermath of September 11!

Top Page 6 : Seventeen years later in 2008, the personal financial empires of those who benefited directly from these covert securities should now stand at several trillion dollars, and are 'rightfully' the property of various citizenries. Putin’s purge of selected oligarchs is consistent with this story.

I advice every reader to read the first 6 pages, then the part called "The War Chest ", its full 6 to 13 pages.
After that, I can't imagine you are not curious for the rest of this intriguing story.
Don't forget to read all accompanying footnotes too...lots of them with additional highly interesting information.

originally posted by: Fermy
Excellent work there LaBTop, it's gone very quiet all of a sudden. No usual suspects. How telling.

originally posted by: mrthumpy
The problem is that when LaBTop is including another steel frame that collapsed from fire and claiming only one did and claiming that a building with at least a ten story gash down one face had only a small corner hole in it then it's clear that this thread is just another poorly researched waste of time

""and claiming only one did"". HuH?
I always have claimed that all three WTC towers were demolished, and not by fire alone.

I indicated the western corner hole where some firemen said they put a measuring check on and a Chief reported that it showed that the building was moving (btw, never could find anything online that showed their diagrams that thus must have been recorded by this equipment), because so many of you over all these years have made that hole a far bigger one than it really was. As evidenced by the whole stack of helicopter photos when they got at last published by NIST after being forced to do so by relentless FOIA requests.
Then we could at last clearly see that what you OS followers made a 10 story gash from, was in reality an 8 story smoke column.
And there were 3 more small corner gashes near that same western corner's top. And another roof rim gash one, at 2/3rds further east.

In my top post on page 3 you find the original helicopter shot from that alleged 10 story gash 2/3 further east in the facade, shown by femr2 as a by him contrast enhanced video.
I once wrote already that it could have been a glitch in the camera equipment of those times, these kinds of dark bands were quite common in the recordings around the millennium switch.
However, the femr2 enhanced video shows a dark vertical band sometimes hidden behind rising smoke.
I do not see that in the original copter shots.
What debris could have carved out such a perfect boundary gash?
And why is nobody asking themselves where all that smoke billowing out from high up WTC-7 came from, while there were never any fires visible.?
And the rest of the smoke that billows up against the south face of WTC-7 is sucked up smoke by the that day blowing northerly winds. Smoke from the fiercely burning WTC-5 and 6 buildings.

What I really found extremely strange was the fact that we have lots of photos from firefighters clearly instructed to fight the RAGING fires in and outside WTC-5 and WTC-6, which buildings were clearly totally lost and not at all recoverable.
Why were those hoses connected to the few pumper trucks and the long hoses laid out from the fire-boats moored at the quays of the Hudson, not used to fight the few fires visible in WTC-7 at that time ???
Fires that expanded in the following hours to serious ones at the lower 7 floors mainly.
Those hoses could have been rolled out into the first 7 floors of WTC-7 and saved that building, instead of useless firefighting outside WTC-5 and 6.

If no foul play would have been used, as we since so long by now already know from my postings.
Know from my seismic evidence timestamp of that by far biggest pack of seismic amplitudes, starting right before Cianca shot his time stamped by NIST photo of the first dent in the E. penthouse roof.
And of course the free fall acceleration period of 2.25 seconds at onset of WTC-t its global collapse. Which can only occur when 8 stories worth of steel in WTC-7 delivered zero resistance to that global collapse onset.

NIST declared conclusively in their draft and final WTC-7 Reports that the damage from impacting debris from the collapse of the North Tower didn't play any important role in the WTC-7 collapse.

I have posted in 2005/6/7 already, that some FDNY Chief send a scout into WTC-7 who walked along the outer south sides corridors of WTC-7 at several floors and he reported no damage at all at that early time, just after WTC-1 apparently collapsed debris on WTC-7. Use ATS Search. I found it then in the FEMA report or the 9/11 Commission report or the NIST first draft reports. Or in the Firefighters Reports from the NY Times or some other newspaper.
You'll find the links in my posts.

Found these checking firefighter posts, but not yet my original earliest one with the link to that report in it :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There is even an early transcript after WTC 1 collapse, from a fireman walking at the 5th to 7th floor at the WTC 7 south facade rooms and corridors, who does not report any big gash in the facade at that height, and no fires at all at those floors.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I posted in my early years at ATS already the witness account of that firefighter who walked along the corridors of the south face of WTC 7, above the fifth floor, and he reported to his chiefs that he found no damage at all along that south face its rooms. Only scooped out windows and damaged rooms at the far south corner, but no deeper than the sheet rock walls of those few corner rooms. In fact only the window frames were scooped out, and at the 2 or 3 lowest floors of that, photographed by a NYPD helicopter, corner damage. A Vierendeel exterior packet was stuck in those 2 or 3 corner window frames.
That was all the damage by debris from the north tower, not at all a serious cause of WTC 7 collapsing. As NIST also stated in 2007.

OS doubters, the above 2 threads have a lot of interesting facts in it, read them :

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
In several posts of this last thread's first page I already addressed the endless stream of disinformation posted by a lot of OS doubting posters. That is what I want to address in this thread, the very old and stale misconceptions of the first years, still repeated by fresh 9/11 posters nowadays.
It has to end, it distracts enormously from the real few fact finding missions left over in this forum.

One VERY IMPORTANT thought you all should contemplate on :

When you blow up by whatever means, the floors just under or just above the plane impacted and burning floors, what follows is always a natural gravitational collapse.

So, stop at last with your endless annoying repeats of pancaking or ROOSD or whatever you call it, floors, since that is not what we, OS doubters, attack at all.

The notion that it all started with explosions, that's what you have to address.

And in the case of WTC-7, I rest my case.
Not one of you has ever contradicted, with any even near-solid contra arguments, my seismic evidence laid before you in my "WTC-7 Mysteries FINALLY Solved" thread :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Dead horse
We don't need to be told
It's obvious

Thank you, that's where I'm at too.

The debate has been over for years--the official story is intellectually bankrupt. So much has been hidden, lied about and covered up that one cannot possibly find the official story compelling. The two heads of the Commission, Kean and Hamilton acknowledged the Commission was set up to fail, rather like the Warren Commission.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: neutronflux

I just look at the 1+1=2 and the cost benefit analysis..

What motivation could only be easiest achieved by orcastrating 911???

None I can think of...


If it was for money then your telling me they could orcastrate and maintain 911, but they didn’t have access to the money printers?!?!!


If it was to destroy files? So they didn’t have a shredder???lol

If it was to start a war there are way easier ways...


None of it adds up logistically.

Really? You cannot imagine what good purposes were served by the events of the day?

How about bringing the GWOT, still with us today? How about a most delicious insurance settlement for Mr. Silverstein? For war profiteers, the GWOT is even more delicious than Silverstein's pittance.

How about invocation of Rule 12(k) of SEC which relaxed restrictions on clearing and settling of security trades, enabling the anonymous clearing of securities issued related to Project Hammer? That was all covered by Eastman, Flocco, Durham and others, and written about by E.P. Heidner.

How about the creation of Fatherland Security Department on a cabinet level. Sorry, HOMELAND Security I meant to say.

a reply to: LaBTop

( how else could hey generate 250 billion dollars) Ignore the 240 billion as the number is meaningless toward my point.

A) Well assuming that is the end payout (240 billion) first off we have to subtract the cost of orcastrating and maintaining the conspiracy.


That isn’t gonna be cheap. I’m not sure it would cost the full 240 billion, but it would cost billions..


You have to pay off experts , reporters, the 911 commission, exc, exc,


Then you have all the logistical stuff.. your having to rig the planes, pay off whatever missle base shot the pentagon, radar people, plant the thermite, exc, exc..


So the final figure would be way less than the 240 billion.. if that is even a real number and not just a conspiracy site number..


B) so your telling me they have basically full access to radar, the military , the media, the twin towers and the pentagon, but they don’t have access to a way to generate money from scratch?!?!


Most money is digital now a days..

B1) Wouldn’t it be way easier to pay off whoever does the Feds IT work????


Wouldn’t it be easier to just fire up the presses at the federal reserve???



B2 ) couldn’t you just set up bill gates for terrorism or some other reason to confiscate his money, legally???


Conclusion) money isn’t real..

They just print it out of thin air.. it is not a finite resource like gold or silver.


They don’t need to orcastrate super convoluted conspiracies when they could certainly pull a rick Sanchez (rick and north ) and do the equivalent of changing a 1 to a 0.

If someone has full access to all the sectors required to successfully orcastrate 911, then why would you ever believe those same actors wouldn’t have access to the financial system??