The Serious 9/11 Arguments Compilation.

Same poster, same page 7 one :

No flashes, no windows blown out, no evidence of pressure waves

"No evidence of pressure waves" ?
"Cap-man" , the guy who witnessed twice this cadence of "Boooms" while in Manhattan looking and listening to both Twin Tower collapses, and didn't hear them back when returned home when watching the endless repeats on his television, says in the video interview, made available by BoneZ, posted by me in this same thread :
"And while you heard these explosions going off, you also felt a huge overpressure, equal to that on a submarine hundreds of meters below the surface".




"No windows blown out" ?
WATCH/LISTEN the next by me posted WTC-7 collapse video made by 'ManAgainstCrime' !
Another one with that huge deep explosive sound in its first seconds.
And NOTE those windows breaking first on the left side after the E.penthouse toppled, then on the right side after the W.penthouse sunk away and global collapse started.

Is he selectively reading posts here again? Ignoring hard evidence and endlessly repeating false narratives, again and again.
Everything he writes next is a copy/paste of what he wrote in previous posts. And I and many others already commented on that. Why does he repeat everything without acknowledging responses with hard contra-evidence? Does he think if he repeats everything that ATS its 9/11 forum readers eventually will be swayed?
And yes, it's a well known mass influencing technique utilized on global scale since the Nazi years from 1936 onward. By many entities afterwards.

www.youtube.com...


For the really deeply interested 9/11 researchers on both sides of the 9/11 official story :
Read ALL the comments under this video !
It's really worth the time it will cost you. I have saved the whole page with all its comments for later use.
Click all the "show more" links and "more answers" links, everywhere they are shown.

The specific discussions going on in this comments section do really cover all aspects of the WTC-7 collapse, and to some extend also for the WTC 1 and 2 collapses.
Poster 'ManAgainstCrime' shows extraordinary logic skills and is a gifted writer too.
There are some more posters like him there too, by the way. He's the by far most active one however.

Referenced more WTC-7 videos :
WTC 7 South Enhanced by femr2 :
www.youtube.com...
The 2010 southern facade gash.

WTC7 South Face Revealed - Helicopter Shot
www.youtube.com...
Original shot of 2010 southern facade gash.

NEW FOR 2017: What Happened To Building 7 :
www.youtube.com...
The 2017 southern facade gash. Not new. A repeat.

4409 -- (Unseen Footage) Tower 7 blasted into rubble from NEW angle! :
www.youtube.com...
The left, then right blasted out windows.
Which you can see in all other northwestern viewpoint filmed videos.

9/11 WTC 7 Demolition - Westside Highway CBS Camera Angle :
www.youtube.com...
7:25 minutes up to the first dent in the E.penthouse roof.
No demolition sounds audible because of an annoying loud sound (FDNY pumper car? ).
I would have really wanted to have that one without that damn sound.
Can anyone filter that out, and see if you hear that huge deep explosive sound again.
And perhaps some even earlier blast noises than the huge deep sound that you hear in my earlier posted CBS-Net Dub5 09 video, which starts only 3 seconds before that E.penthouse starts to dent. This one starts 7:25 minutes before that first E.p. dent.

I'll repeat it in layman terms : They blew a whole stack of 8 LOWER WTC-7 floors their columns and crossbeams to smithereens, floors 7 to 14, to be able to achieve such a truly Free Fall Acceleration (FFA) result, lasting for an unbelievable long 2.25 seconds.

Either with standard steel columns and beams cutting devices, which takes weeks to position.
Or, with much faster explosion speeds than RDX, and far easier to disguise and much faster to be positioned in a few hours : radio controlled thermobaric cutter device containers.
WTC-7 clearly was a standard textbook, bottom-up demolition.

Photo of a not exploded Russian TB container, chute still attached, obviously not that big :



And there is absolutely no footage anywhere to be found of these LOWER floors ( 1 - 15) as possibly seen from the SOUTH FACADE side, during the WTC-7 collapse sequence starting at 17:20:33 P.M. on 9/11/2001 .

So, of course there are no recorded flashes or window breakages from those southern side's LOWER floors.
Only of the northern facade side. And there those lower 15 floors were also blocked from view by the surrounding buildings, since all media cameras were redirected to a few blocks north of WTC-7 around 5 o'clock P.M. already.

They waited until they were pretty sure there were no cameras anymore, aimed at the southern facade side...quite some 9/11 conspirators must have been walking around in south Manhattan, chasing away leftover camera teams and individuals, and controlling the NYPD and FDNY personnel there to be 100 % sure that there would be no footage ever surfacing from the WTC-7 south face collapse.
Or do you really believe such extraordinary circumstances do appear, while we were witnessing the most televised event of the whole TV era already for 7 hours, before WTC-7 got taken down.

Luckily we have Craig Bartmer's oral evidence on video :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And kyleplatinum posted his words on page 8 of the above thread and Craig's YT video interview links can be found all over this forum. Use your ATS Search.
I miss there by the way his sentence from his video I viewed and typed out :
""and then I looked up and an umbrella of crap spat out just 10 feet above me, and I started running", which is quite different from kyleplatinum typed words :
""The thing started pealing in on itself"":

kyleplatinum page 8 post :
Craig Bartmer : "I walked around it (Building 7). I saw a hole. I didn't see a hole bad enough to knock a building down, though. Yeah there was definitely fire in the building, but I didn't hear any... I didn't hear any creaking, or... I didn't hear any indication that it was going to come down. And all of a sudden the radios exploded and everyone started screaming 'get away, get away, get away from it!'... It was at that moment... I looked up, and it was nothing I would ever imagine seeing in my life. The thing started pealing in on itself... Somebody grabbed my shoulder and I started running, and the #'s hitting the ground behind me, and the whole time you're hearing "boom, boom, boom, boom, boom." I think I know an explosion when I hear it... Yeah it had some damage to it, but nothing like what they're saying... Nothing to account for what we saw... I am shocked at the story we've heard about it to be quite honest."

-Former NYPD Officer & 9/11 First Responder Craig Bartmer

That damage was the small corner hole, only one small corner office space deep, at most, and only a few floors high, in the southwestern corner of WTC-7, chunked out by a piece of debris from the WTC-1 collapse.
You could ask yourself how such a heavy WTC-1 facade exterior column could have been catapulted that far away from a by official sources advertised natural gravitational collapse, without some help from explosive charges.
That was quite some extremely parabolic trajectory while catapulting away such a heavy Vierendeel facade steel piece from WTC-1. While official sources say that essentially both twin towers collapsed through the path of most resistance, namely its own floors around their 47 center columns. They did not topple all the way down, but the collapse proceeded around the elevator shafts and the center columns, all the way down.

A huge chunk of WTC-1 facade came not further than the southern roof side of WTC-6, where it seemed to have caused a huge round hole that got to the bottom floors of it. Strangely enough you do not observe enough WTC-1 debris at the bottom of that hole, and that's why E.P. Heidner supposed that WTC-6 was blown up with all the files about huge white washing operations like ENRON, stocked up there by the Eldorado taskforce.
Their investigators got all re-directed away, to investigate terrorist funding, the very day after 9/11/2001...Read about it in my WTC-7 thread.

Start with this post and its more and more intriguing follow up ones :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Someone posted this already somewhere.
A picture is worth a thousand words.

files.abovetopsecret.com...

Excellent work there LaBTop, it's gone very quiet all of a sudden. No usual suspects. How telling.

lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org...

Read Dr. Rousseau's conclusion first, then his detailed descriptions in the rest of his pages.

Page 21, the WTC-7 collapse diagram.
Dr. Rousseau included that term surface wave and the arrow.
That's the wave with an overall speed of 2 km/sec , resulting in arrival of the first of such waves at the 34 km from Manhattan situated LDEO Palisades seismic station after 17 seconds of every real-time event in Manhattan, like the first dent in the roof of the eastern penthouse on top of WTC-7. Those wave speeds have been calculated for the Palisades station over many decades of seismic registering of earthquakes in Manhattan.
Up to a year before 9/11/2001 there was a functioning seismic station in Manhattan, New York. It was terminated by Giuliani and his N.Y. city administration....far too dangerous for the 9/11 planners to keep that there.

Compare that one with my first diagram in my WTC-7 Mysteries solved thread opening post.

I'm still confused why he did not use my data, I gave him permission to do so in this forum.

This article is the same as the above one from Dr. Andre Rousseau but can be copy and pasted from, and is also titled :

"Were Explosives the Source of the Seismic Signals Emitted from New York on September 11, 2001?"
www.journalof911studies.com...

Pages 7-11 explain the explosions and their seismic evidence in detail.

a reply to: Fermy

good eye thee babe....agree

a reply to: LaBTop

Welcome back, Topster!

P.S. : I'm looking for help in finding mathematical or psychological methods online, to unmask such A.I. DoD or Agencies posting bots. No personal messages, just post it here, wisdom will win...in the end. Anyone in a helpful mood ?

Yeah, that's far from easy at times. We could use some algos for that!
Here's an informative piece on perception management for starters:

This document has provided a great deal of information that will be very useful to targeted individuals as they forage through the online community in search of answers while avoiding the traps that are constantly being set up as part of various psyop programs. Perception management is a key aspect of any psyop program, and as targeted individuals we are already in the sights of Psyop Specialists whose jobs are to lead us into complete control by those they work for.

Online Psyops and Perception Management in the Targeted Community

In the end said bots are just flawed humans like us. They use the same tactics and plant the same old talkingpoints, which is why we shouldn't go for the player in this match of soccer.

Franky? I have no idea if I'm going to post my list of arguments, it's way too long by now. And I still believe, that perception management is the bigger fish to fry in this Age of Total War.
We've lost on the 9/11 front with (only) winning the arguments online, did we not?

originally posted by: Fermy
Excellent work there LaBTop, it's gone very quiet all of a sudden. No usual suspects. How telling.

This old stuff.
It's the same old claims made by the same people with nothing more than conjecture, innuendo and youtube videos.
People have tried to make a name for themselves over 911.
All of their proofs have turned out to be bunk.

a reply to: samkent

People have tried to make a name for themselves over 911

And some people are usual suspects by definition due to the fact, that they never try hard enough.

All of their proofs have turned out to be bunk.

I like my Absolutes with milk and Kalhúa, too! It's a great opinion to start a mud-pit thread with, wanna give it a shot?

Just checking in to say thank you for this masterpiece of love and labor.

I can almost remember their bloody faces; still hear the quip and clipped tone, always popping in at a moment’s notice on these threads, should the slightest breeze fill her sails.

Sometimes, a couple of the full alert duty regs were quite sloppy with their punctuation, grammar, and arguments, until the stuff kicked in. Remember, these persons who believe in magic airplanes will too happily stand in with the gforces to gauge the mental health of their prey. This tyranny is the end game, after all. It holds the key to disarming the world, one evaluation at a time.

Hopefully, we can get them the help they will need, once the cognitive dissonance, and shame at themselves, come together in a crush on their souls. We must never forget these
operations, even if, especially if, they acted simply of their own accord, for
self-preservation etc.... More is the shame.




# 979

a reply to: samkent


And there is an immense, glaring omission in the rebuttal stakes on this thread, one who disperses their # over many others but has yet to raise their rotting countenance on this one. Clearly, their wages don't cover in depth analysis and inconvenient truths.
Does it really need reiterating that some seek to derail and obfuscate? Seek and ye shall find, cointel and disinformation are rife, one has to sort the chaff from the wheat, the bull#ters have had it too good for too long. Cast them out of the temple of light.

a reply to: Fermy

Just because a thread is a repeat of all the debunked one hit wonders of the truth movement talking points you want to hear. Items already repeatedly debunked in numerous ATS threads?

I am guessing LaBtop is primed to push any undesirable truth with post after post of technobabble. Why else would the individual pass on debating on topic specific threads that already exists, and create a broad topic that will only generate chaos.

Who has already posted the most?

If you want a serious debate about a specific item, avoid this circus. Just watch.

a reply to: neutronflux


I didn't even need to name you and you come steaming in. Thread watchers not-so-anonymous, agenda, agenda, agenda.
Your 'proof' is others "technobabble"?
You are a busted flush, do you comprehend?
Busted.

It is obvious there was no CD at the towers. The towers collapsing at the rate of free fall is a lie. The Towers did not collapse through the path of greatest resistance. No evidence of charges powerful enough to cut steel as evident by no audible signatures, no indication of shrapnel from explosives, and no indication of pressure waves with the energy to cut steel.

The seismic data does not show signatures of explosives. The truth movement’s seismic evidence is simply a trick of scaling and data out of context.

The truth movement ignores the video evidence that shows the collapse of the towers started in relative silence with the outer columns being pulled in. Nothing is exploding out while the outer columns are bowing in to the point the geometry causes them to buckle resulting in collapse initiation. The towers suffered the complete collapse of the floor systems with 40 to 60 percent of the columns still standing whole seconds before their collapse.

The initiation of collapse is seen in a video in the linked to thread below.

the-pre-collapse-inward-bowing-of-wtc2.t4760/

www.metabunk.org...

Funny conspiracists want to create false narratives concerning secondary evidence, but don’t want to reference the video of the actual collapse.

Also, conspiracists forget there has never been a top down explosive CD of a high rise building. What is that logic the truth movement uses? Never before means not possible? While ignoring the Madrid Windsor had a failure of its steel structure above the 17 floor because of fire. And the Windsor was only saved by a concrete core that was not present in the twin towers.

originally posted by: Fermy
a reply to: neutronflux


I didn't even need to name you and you come steaming in. Thread watchers not-so-anonymous, agenda, agenda, agenda.
Your 'proof' is others "technobabble"?
You are a busted flush, do you comprehend?
Busted.

Name one credible piece of evidence of detonations powerful enough to cut steel at the WTC?

You want to debate facts? Or emotionally rant?

a reply to: neutronflux


I'm perfectly satisfied I know exactly who and what I'm dealing with here and i have no intention into being strung along in your deceit. You only deal with 'facts' you find acceptable, opposing facts are dismissed as technobabble by yourself. Feel free to expose yourself, your continued protesting only reinforces all that is suspect with you.
You have been busted.

Are links to other forums allowed here?

originally posted by: Fermy
a reply to: neutronflux


I'm perfectly satisfied I know exactly who and what I'm dealing with here and i have no intention into being strung along in your deceit. You only deal with 'facts' you find acceptable, opposing facts are dismissed as technobabble by yourself. Feel free to expose yourself, your continued protesting only reinforces all that is suspect with you.
You have been busted.

Are links to other forums allowed here?

Start simple. A blast that cuts steel and would make a seismic footprint would result in a clear audible detonation easily heard at least a quarter of a mile away. Then supposedly the resistance of each floor had to be removed to reach witnesses collapse speed. That is at least 110 detentions for one tower. Why is there no such audible detonation on the audio of the WTC video. I think the 1993 WTC bombing use around 1,000 pounds of explosives. The damage was obvious, and did not cause detectable seismic activity at LDEO. Is that false? The local seismic monitoring for construction in Manhattan did not detect any seismic activity on 9/11.

The irony of DR Wood. Debunks all other theories to push her Dustification? Any who, here is DR Wood showing there is no seismic record of CD at the WTC on 9/11.

Dr. Judy Wood - 9/11 Seismic Data
m.youtube.com...

Which truth movement talking head has the truth? Oh my.....

Please state who has the most credible alternative to impact/fire/thermal stress causing floor trusses to droop. When cooling, the floor trusses contacted. The floor trusses in relative silence pulled on the columns until they bowed and then buckled initiating collapse. There is nothing exploded out as the columns start to buckle in.

Mythical fizzle no flash explosives? Debunked thermite? Because there is no seismic proof of CD, the truth movement turned to cutting charges vs explosives.

Nukes?

No jets, holograms with missiles or lasers?

Dustification?

Please state what is more credible than inward bowing leading to buckling?

a reply to: Thoseaintcontrails

How much more than the cost of the buildings would any operation to orcastrate AND THEN MAINTAIN the conspiracy be???


Just an insane amount more..

People don’t do things that cost billions of dollars without it being an investment. There has be be a guarantee they will be successful and it will pay off .. and pay off way more than the Markets could do so legitimately..


I don’t see there is any scenario where 911 was the path of least resistance or the best option to get anything done.

Any motivation you can come up with , I can think of an easier way than 911 to achieve the same goal.