Conclusive Evidence of Explosives, Petition to Re-Open 9/11 Investigation

a reply to: Jesushere

Please quote a source the flight recoder data shows north east flight path?

Flight AA77 on 9/11: New FDR Analysis Supports the Official Flight Path Leading to Impact with the Pentagon
Frank Legge, (B.Sc.(Hons.), Ph.D.) and Warren Stutt, ( B.Sc.(Hons.) Comp. Sci.) January 2011

The course of the plane as determined by radar12 and the course calculated from the FDR are strikingly similar. This supports the view that these are reporting the same plane.

-break-

Discussion
Flight course and final manoeuvre
In the following image (Fig. 1),14 it can be seen that impact with five light poles not only establishes the track through the damaged area, but also provides evidence that the wingspan of the plane, if it was a plane,15 is consistent with that of a Boeing 757, 124 feet 10 inches.16
If the position of the aircraft is plotted using latitude and longitude from the fully decoded FDR file, it becomes apparent that the course obtained is over 200 feet from the course defined by the trail of damage. A method for correcting the position reports was devised, which is described below.

The flight path on the FDR was off by 200 feet? So?

9-11-p4t-fdr-analysis-of-flight-77.t4282/#post-154279
www.metabunk.org...-154279

By TWcobra

The 757/767 Flight Management System (FMS) does not fly via the IRS unless it has nothing else to use, i.e. long overwater operations.

The IRS position begins to drift from the moment the system is initialised. One of the procedures I had when flying the aircraft (767) was to do a "quick alignment" towards the end of the flight preparation procedure. This was an acknowledgement that the initial datum would have moved during the preflight. (Turning the IRS's on was one of the first things you did when you started pre-flight checks).

The inertial position would be updated to the runway threshold automatically on the selection of take-off thrust. This was the last time during the flight that the IRS position would be accurate.

So how did the aircraft navigate accurately? The aircraft derived its position from a variety of navigational inputs into the FMS. The most accurate of these is GPS, which was not fitted on the 767's I flew till late in the production run and apparently not on AA77 either, followed by DME (distance measuring equipment), VOR's ( a radio Nav beacon) Localisers which are another form of beacon used in the Instrument landing system) and finally the IRS position.

As the aircraft flies, it checks and cross references all these navaids and derives the most accurate position. This is known as the FMS position.

So the IRS position would have been drifting from initialisation till takeoff, and then till the crash. This is why errors are apparent and why they don't mean anything. Anything meaningful in the report should refer to the FMS position, not the IRS position.

I have found nothing that supports your claims the FDR shows NE flight path?

Can you cite a source for the FRD? Can you cite anything that the radar data supports NE flight path?

Or is this just like you saying Gofer took off from Reagan minutes before flight 77 hit the pentagon?

You?

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Gopher 6 took off from Reagan airport minutes before impact.

Audio from Gofer 6

m.youtube.com...
GOFER 6

About 50 seconds, it sounds like Gofer 6 said “ strolled north east bound”? Relative to what? Gofer 6? The pentagon was not known to be a target at this time?

At about 2 minute mark, Gofer 6 claims “ North West of the air field” about one minute after the NE comment that was not a reference position relative to the pentagon? A jet can do many turns and travel much distance in a minute? Didn’t flight 77 complete a long turn before descent into the pentagon?

2:19 is the first report of jet crashing in to the pentagon. Almost a minute twenty after the NE comment that was not even a position reference based on the pentagon?

What else do you have wrong?

a reply to: waypastvne

Gofer 6 claiming that flight 77 was north west of the air field about 19 seconds before flight 77 hit the pentagon fits Your provided graphic? Wonder why Jhere never mentioned Gofers later report of the jet being north west of the air field?

a reply to: Jesushere

What is it with conspiracists when it is driven home there is no evidence of CD by demolitions they cling to flight 77? They are separate events? And you would think persons of the truth movement concerned with truth would have the most accurate, most scientific, and solid arguments? But that is far from reality. Research shows there narrative’s are based on slight of hand tricks? Their arguments are the most biased, based on hiding facts, pseudoscience, out of context photos/quotes, ignoring the bulk of witnesses in context of physical evidence, and cite innuendo as fact?

And the truth movement wonders why it is not taken as credible? Because they will repeat any flawed argument, flawed evidence, or any bit of innuendo as their “smoking gun”. It’s like smoking gun psychosis?

originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: Salander

The maneuver supposedly made by Hanjour was impossible

January 2001 Hanjour took course in piloting a jet airliner in a simulator at JET TECH in Mesa Az

Hanjour already had a pilot license with a commercial rating

His instructor signed off the section for "TIGHT TURNS" ........

Tell that to somebody that does not know horse manure from peanut butter about flying. I'm not one of those people.

Stick to fires and rescue.

No facts support the claim that AA77 hit the pentagon. No facts support the claim that any airliner struck the pentagon.

waypastvne When you're going east the degrees increases not decrease to account for magnetic deviation. In 2001 the deviation was about 10 degrees.

If the plane was 60 degrees North East you just add 10 to get the magnetic deviation = 70 magnetic deviation. That's what shown on the FDR animation.

Am I struggling to understand why people are decreasing the magnetic value for a plane that heading NE on a compass?

East you increase the degrees going West you decrease the degrees.

Was the plane North West? That's the only way the plane could be heading North on 60 to 61-degree true course on the other side of the navy annex?

neutronflux North Eastbound could mean the plane was North or South of the Navy Annex before it crashed? We need more information from the pilot to know where exactly he saw the plane? All we know is the plane had completed the turn and the plane was descended on its final approach to the Pentagon.

North West is a just an observation based on longitude and altitude, at least I think so?

a reply to: Jesushere

This is straight from AA77 FDR.

True heading is in blue.
Magnetic heading is in green.




AA77's final heading heading is:

60 deg TRUE HEADING.
70 deg MAGNETIC HEADING.

www.ntsb.gov...

It's easier to just state the facts that to try and unravel your post.

waypastvne What direction? Is your graph not meaningless? 60 degrees whereabouts?

The magnetic compass places the plane 70 degrees on Magnetic heading going NE

Going NE means the plane was over the Navy Annex or to the North of Navy Annex. In aviation, east is more and Washington is about 10 degrees magnetic + the true heading that was about 60 to 61 degrees= About 70 degrees.

waypastvne What debatable here where you place the plane on the North or South side of the Navy Annex?

North side 60+ 10 = 70

South side 60+ 10= 70

The FDR has the plane on the North of the Navy Annex they must have placed the plane there based on other data?

a reply to: Jesushere

What you need to answer is how the flight data recoder used a analog magnetic compass to determine heading and record that heading as a digital file?

What type of instrument was used by the flight recoder to determine heading?

a reply to: neutronflux

Hall effect sensor within the magnetic field of the compass.

originally posted by: Jesushere
waypastvne What debatable here where you place the plane on the North or South side of the Navy Annex?

North side 60+ 10 = 70

South side 60+ 10= 70

The FDR has the plane on the North of the Navy Annex they must have placed the plane there based on other data?

You need to add a T or M after every heading you post. Otherwise no one will be able to understand you.

example: 60T + 10 deg = 70M

FDR places the plane South of the Annex.

originally posted by: waypastvne
a reply to: neutronflux

Hall effect sensor within the magnetic field of the compass.

I don’t doubt you. I would think a flight computer / record would use something not effected by how magnetic north changes across the globe? Something based on a gyroscope? An input in addition to the magnetic compass. It was just a thought?

a reply to: waypastvne

Something like this?

Heading Indicator

www.cfinotebook.net...

Introduction:
The heading indicator, also called a directional gyro, is an instrument used to determine aircraft direction to aid the pilot in navigation
When set properly, heading indicators indicate primary heading and indirect bank (due to heading change)
Functions using the vacuum system and operates on the principle of torque-induced precession (gyroscopic precession)
Although very reliable, a magnetic compass has so many inherent errors, such as magnetic dip, that it has been supplemented with gyroscopic heading indicators
The heading of the aircraft is shown against the nose of the symbolic aircraft on the instrument glass, which serves as the lubber line to display directional (heading) information in reference to 360°

What kind of heading indicator did flight 77 have?

a reply to: Jesushere

Why would the heading and position from the flight recoder data need to be corrected? The flight management system uses fixed radio stations to help accurately determine position and heading? Is that false?

Yes, flight 77 did not use GPS. But it did use fixed radio stations to correct position in the flight management system. So is there a difference in reading between the dashboard compass, heading, and the computer flight management system?

en.m.wikipedia.org...

A flight management system (FMS) is a fundamental component of a modern airliner's avionics. An FMS is a specialized computer system that automates a wide variety of in-flight tasks, reducing the workload on the flight crew to the point that modern civilian aircraft no longer carry flight engineers or navigators. A primary function is in-flight management of the flight plan. Using various sensors (such as GPS and INS often backed up by radio navigation) to determine the aircraft's position, the FMS can guide the aircraft along the flight plan. From the cockpit, the FMS is normally controlled through a Control Display Unit (CDU) which incorporates a small screen and keyboard or touchscreen. The FMS sends the flight plan for display to the Electronic Flight Instrument System (EFIS), Navigation Display (ND), or Multifunction Display (MFD). The FMS can be summarised as being a dual system consisting of the Flight Management Computer (FMC), CDU and a cross talk bus.

a reply to: Jesushere

Gofer 6’s last report of flight 77 before the crash was north west of the airfield. Why do you ignore this important item of information?

a reply to: Jesushere

Now for a bit of logic, out of all the threads and information debunked over the last 15 years plus? In the context of flight 77 “smoking guns”, you are about the only person arguing flight recorder data proves NE path. A argument that was debunked long ago.

In this thread, waypastvne posted 60 deg TRUE HEADING for flight 77?

You might want to figure out why you are arguing a narrative long abandoned by the truth movement?

Can you even cite the source of what drought you down the path of this false narrative?

a reply to: Jesushere

In short, why would the data set from the flight data recoder not include the calculated heading and direction from the flight management system that used navigation aids such as land based fixed radio stations to accurately determine actual position and heading. The compass readings would be a bigger deal if flight 77 crashed out at sea out of range of the fixed radio stations used as navigation aids.

a reply to: Jesushere

Is it true there are online sites that will do the calculation from magnetic north to true north? For a given location.

Is it true a link in this thread was provided to such a site?

Looking forward to the results of you using such a site, so we don’t have to rely on your math skills and calculations? A nice screenshot perhaps? Take all doubt out of your argument?