Manned Space Exploration...Why?

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: luthier

Indeed... we are in fact struggling to provide a healthy life to a large percentage of the population already, blight or no.
One wonders what a world of 28bn people will be like in a hundred or so years.

Have you watched or read the Expanse? I think probably something like that.

Just started watching it actually...hopefully not like that, but I suspect humans being humans we'll find a way to make whatever we end up doing a hell hole for the majority.

a reply to: UKTruth

The show is great but books are a good read also.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: UKTruth

The show is great but books are a good read also.

The show is especially good knowing somehow the syfy channel could pull of such massive undertaking. Every time I watch it I look at the physical sets and say my goodness what a big project. They have come a long way from rubber masks and terrible acting shows.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: blackcrowe

thats why i think we will be space fairing species, because we love a challenge , our egos see to it that we take it head on!

humans just love to make their mark , even if we know we are the only ones here , we want to make our mark so that someone sometime somewhere will know we existed and we didnt go quietly into the night !

what blows my mind is.

No matter how we look out at the stars. Weather with naked eye or one of the amazing telescopes. It's all the past.

We will and can never know what it looks like right now in real time. And, no matter which point of the universe you might choose to view it from. The same problem occurs.

All down to the speed of light. And how long it can take to reach us.

It is not and nothing like you think you see it is.

So. How or why would/should/could you send a manned mission. Not boldly. But, blindly?

That's reality to me. Anything else is sci-fi.

It would be nice to do it. But. I don't see how.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: blackcrowe

Time is relative through and never absolute.

If we manage to devise a means of transversing the space-time between the stars, chances are we will also master the ability to travel in time. Which will possibly open up a whole multitude of paradoxical problems regarding the timeline our species resides.

Time might not even be as linear a beast as we suppose it to be.

If we managed to devise a means. We still would never have a real time knowledge of where or if a target exists.

On the other hand. You could always just drift through the universe blindly.

I have no idea on time travel.

Maybe there would be benefits.

Another mind blower. But sci-fi for the moment.

The following is an editorial statement:

You know, I joined ATS because it is an interesting, diverse, enlightening and fun place.

I started this thread (the OP) because I thought it would be an interesting and fun discussion, and overall it has been (I hope).

The OP (my OP) was basically a list of points in support of an opinion, my opinion. However, it seems 'some' here interpreted this opinion as if I'd suggested their God didn't exist or something (which, incidentally, I did not). What I stated is that the notion man needs to escape Earth is flawed, and that the deck is heavily stacked against him doing this anyway. I further stated that I don't believe there is significant value in mankind focusing on escaping Earth and/or venturing to other planets and solar systems. All, in my opinion, supported by the reasons I feel support it.

That some may disagree is to be expected, and frankly welcomed (what a boring place it would be if everyone agreed on everything). That some may debate the subject is also to be expected, especially here on ATS. However, that 'some' feel the need to cast their opposing opinion in such a way as to disparage people's intellect and suggest they are "educating" me, or anyone else here, is not in the spirit of ATS (again, in my opinion). That some feel their opinion is 100% interchangeable with fact is more than just a little bit arrogant.

The facts are this; mankind has not visited another solar system. Period. Other than the Moon, mankind has not visited (in person) another planet in our own solar system. Whether he ever will, or not, is a matter of opinion, not fact. Characterizing mankind's ability to achieve these things in the future as fact is simply wrong. Some may not like that answer, but that is immaterial, and frankly tough 'nuggets'. Everything else is speculation and opinion. Those are the "facts".

P.S. Kinda' makes me wonder if I should just not create any more threads.

P.S. Kinda' makes me wonder if I should just not create any more threads.


Ha ha ha.

I've been regretting ever jumping into this topic for a while now too.

You'll laugh about it one day.

Another lesson learned.

a reply to: blackcrowe

Actually, if you could travel to Alpha Centauri, have a planet you can land on and look up at the night time stars - it would look almost exactly like it does here on Earth, with 2 exceptions:

1) You wouldn't be able to see Alpha Centauri since you're there.
2) There would be a star that you'd of not seen before: the Sun.

You have to go about 20 lightyears or more from Earth to see any significant difference in the night sky.

Also, as far as one of your earlier posts about Alpha Centauri not being there due to the lightspeed delay: highly improbable.

About the only thing that could make it go away would be a collision with another star or a black hole. The ages of the triple star system is about the same as our own sun, so we know it's not going to die off any time soon, especially Proxima Centauri since it's a red dwarf, who's life spans are measured in the trillions of years. We can see that there is no other star on it's way there to collide with it (something that would take centuries to thousands of years), and any black hole getting near it would have a dramatic effect on it's stellar drift.

So yah, most likely there would be little change to anyone arriving there.

Now much more distant objects: sure, because of the time involved even at light speed is much larger. Say like Betelgeuse, a red giant in the Orion constellation. It's a super red giant that is at the end of it's life span. It will be going super nova soon. "soon" as in within the next 100 to 1000 years and will give us quite a light show.

However, Betelgeuse is over 600 light years away, so it's quite possible that it's already gone super nova and we just don't know it yet, so one could be in for a big surprise if they went there.

a reply to: blackcrowe

Well, thanks for hanging in there. I do appreciate it.

I hope someday I'm proven completely wrong. I don't think I ever will be, but I hope I am.

And that's the truth too!

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: blackcrowe

Well, thanks for hanging in there. I do appreciate it.

I hope someday I'm proven completely wrong. I don't think I ever will be, but I hope I am.

And that's the truth too!

If only for the fact that because some people like us see issues. Hopefully, they will get addressed.

a reply to: blackcrowe

"Drifts through the universe blindly".

If this island Earth ever has an epitaph, that should be it.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: blackcrowe

Actually, if you could travel to Alpha Centauri, have a planet you can land on and look up at the night time stars - it would look almost exactly like it does here on Earth, with 2 exceptions:

1) You wouldn't be able to see Alpha Centauri since you're there.
2) There would be a star that you'd of not seen before: the Sun.

You have to go about 20 lightyears or more from Earth to see any significant difference in the night sky.

Also, as far as one of your earlier posts about Alpha Centauri not being there due to the lightspeed delay: highly improbable.

About the only thing that could make it go away would be a collision with another star or a black hole. The ages of the triple star system is about the same as our own sun, so we know it's not going to die off any time soon, especially Proxima Centauri since it's a red dwarf, who's life spans are measured in the trillions of years. We can see that there is no other star on it's way there to collide with it (something that would take centuries to thousands of years), and any black hole getting near it would have a dramatic effect on it's stellar drift.

So yah, most likely there would be little change to anyone arriving there.

Now much more distant objects: sure, because of the time involved even at light speed is much larger. Say like Betelgeuse, a red giant in the Orion constellation. It's a super red giant that is at the end of it's life span. It will be going super nova soon. "soon" as in within the next 100 to 1000 years and will give us quite a light show.

However, Betelgeuse is over 600 light years away, so it's quite possible that it's already gone super nova and we just don't know it yet, so one could be in for a big surprise if they went there.

Thanks for that.

The reason i used Alpha Centauri as an example was to prove a point.

I agree it is highly unlikely that it isn't there now in real time. And, as you pointed out. We should be able to tell if a disaster was likely to occur.

My point is. It is very close. But still 4.3 years ago.

So. It can't be assumed it will be there. We wouldn't know. And there's no way to tell definitely.

If it was a bad example. Then i apologise.

The point remains the same.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: blackcrowe

"Drifts through the universe blindly".

If this island Earth ever has an epitaph, that should be it.

I've had worse insults.

a reply to: blackcrowe

Well, good point.

Maybe casting some serious doubt can push research in a direction previously not considered ultimately realizing success in areas of doubt here.

If that turns out to be the case then I will gladly take the aspersions.

a reply to: blackcrowe

It was not meant to be an insult. LoL

More like a statment of fact regarding humanity.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: blackcrowe

Well, good point.

Maybe casting some serious doubt can push research in a direction previously not considered ultimately realizing success in areas of doubt here.

If that turns out to be the case then I will gladly take the aspersions.

a reply to: blackcrowe

Yep, that's space: V A S T in distance.

the sun we see was from 8 minutes ago. The Moon: 1.5 seconds ago.

Heck, standing in front of your house there is still a time delay. So short we can't register it with our minds, but it's something that can be measured.

Still, at least we can see the Moon, Mars, the Sun.....Alpha Centauri. Think of those over 500 years ago that decided to travel across the Atlantic in wooden sailing ships. They didn't know about N. America and S. America, and instead just went out....with no idea where they'd end up.

Now that took some balls to do. Not knowing really where you were going, if anything was going to be there, all while having to worry about food, water, and if the weather was going to decide that it had enough of you floating on the top of the ocean.......

Sending you to the Moon or Mars however, is not without risk, but at least we know where it is, or rather where it should be by the time you get there, and most are reasonably sure it's still going to be there when you get there. I mean it would be really strange to have say Mars blow up right when you get there. It would be one of the biggest WTF? moments in history.

Might make a good Sci-Fi movie though.

But here is something else to burn your noggin for ya: Quantum Probability.

If the vast distances of space worry you, then this will get you even better: Next time you flip on a light switch, it will blow up the Earth.

Weeeeeellllllllll.....okay, the chances of that happening are so freaking small, that it would be laughable to call it real at all.

BUT! It's a finite chance. Meaning that there IS a chance it could happen. Just as there is a finite chance that when I click on the "reply" button to post this, my monitor will turn into a pot of gold. Again, such a small chance that all the zero's in the 0.00000000....... would fill up a book several inches thick......but, there still is a finite chance it could happen.

So yah.....once you get to Mars, when the computer turns on the engines to do a retro burn to enter orbit, it also causes the planet to blow up....or our Moon to disappear....or 10 zebras to appear in your spaceship........a very, very, very, very (way too many "verys" to put here) small chance, but still a finite one.

But, so small that worrying about it isn't really something one should do.

Okay, I'm going to post this and then go spend the gold in the pot that will appear, I just know it will happen this time!

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: blackcrowe

It was not meant to be an insult. LoL

More like a statment of fact regarding humanity.

Maybe they'll paint it on the side of the vehicle.

a reply to: blackcrowe

Right next to the Google, Facebook, and Youtube logos i imagine.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: blackcrowe

Yep, that's space: V A S T in distance.

the sun we see was from 8 minutes ago. The Moon: 1.5 seconds ago.

Heck, standing in front of your house there is still a time delay. So short we can't register it with our minds, but it's something that can be measured.

Still, at least we can see the Moon, Mars, the Sun.....Alpha Centauri. Think of those over 500 years ago that decided to travel across the Atlantic in wooden sailing ships. They didn't know about N. America and S. America, and instead just went out....with no idea where they'd end up.

Now that took some balls to do. Not knowing really where you were going, if anything was going to be there, all while having to worry about food, water, and if the weather was going to decide that it had enough of you floating on the top of the ocean.......

Sending you to the Moon or Mars however, is not without risk, but at least we know where it is, or rather where it should be by the time you get there, and most are reasonably sure it's still going to be there when you get there. I mean it would be really strange to have say Mars blow up right when you get there. It would be one of the biggest WTF? moments in history.

Might make a good Sci-Fi movie though.

But here is something else to burn your noggin for ya: Quantum Probability.

If the vast distances of space worry you, then this will get you even better: Next time you flip on a light switch, it will blow up the Earth.

Weeeeeellllllllll.....okay, the chances of that happening are so freaking small, that it would be laughable to call it real at all.

BUT! It's a finite chance. Meaning that there IS a chance it could happen. Just as there is a finite chance that when I click on the "reply" button to post this, my monitor will turn into a pot of gold. Again, such a small chance that all the zero's in the 0.00000000....... would fill up a book several inches thick......but, there still is a finite chance it could happen.

So yah.....once you get to Mars, when the computer turns on the engines to do a retro burn to enter orbit, it also causes the planet to blow up....or our Moon to disappear....or 10 zebras to appear in your spaceship........a very, very, very, very (way too many "verys" to put here) small chance, but still a finite one.

But, so small that worrying about it isn't really something one should do.

Okay, I'm going to post this and then go spend the gold in the pot that will appear, I just know it will happen this time!

Yes. Looking into quantum. Not enough knowledge for me to make an accurate statement though. I need to study it a lot more. But, seems like a universe on the small side. so to speak.

Be careful with them zebras in your ship. They bite and kick.