Manned Space Exploration...Why?

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: blackcrowe

No worries !

it's funny though that you look to the heavens and to our future, but are technically looking at the past !

amazing

how wonderful the universe is eh!

Exactly.

Blows my mind.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Well, I was already vaguely aware of Orion, having looked into it many years ago (like back in the late 80's). None the less, I read your link. And while there have been a few developments since then, the whole concept is still replete with "theoretically", "perhaps", "concept", "cannot be built at present", "yet to be developed", etc. The best one though speaks to the timeframes you refer and this is, "antimatter" (pursuant to 'Fusion-antimatter catalyzed nuclear pulse propulsion units'). Regarding 'antimatter' in general, per ELENA in 2016...

More than one hundred antiprotons can be captured per second, a huge improvement, but it would still take several thousand years to make a nanogram of antimatter.

and later...

Assuming a 100% conversion of antiprotons to antihydrogen, it would take 100 billion years to produce 1 gram or 1 mole of antihydrogen (approximately 6.02×1023 atoms of anti-hydrogen).

Source

So, I guess if mankind can hang around for a couple hundred billion years we'll be good to go.

Now, to the 'Breakthrough Starshot' concept...

To come up with 100GW worth of lasers to use in the array will take the power of 100 nuclear power plants, all doing nothing but sending power to the ~1/2 mile square phased laser array. And then, all to send a vehicle only weighing a few grams and measuring centimeters across (with a sail size of 5m). But even better, we'll need to send 1,000 of these vehicles at the same time, just to ensure one gets there, because most of them will be destroyed by collisions before ever even reaching their destination.

And we're going to scale this technology up to fit humans inside?????

All fun stuff to think about, but once again not something which is going to put a human anywhere close to Proxima Centauri in the next few hundred centuries.

a reply to: blackcrowe

thats why i think we will be space fairing species, because we love a challenge , our egos see to it that we take it head on!

humans just love to make their mark , even if we know we are the only ones here , we want to make our mark so that someone sometime somewhere will know we existed and we didnt go quietly into the night !

a reply to: blackcrowe

Time is relative through and never absolute.

If we manage to devise a means of transversing the space-time between the stars, chances are we will also master the ability to travel in time. Which will possibly open up a whole multitude of paradoxical problems regarding the timeline our species resides.

Time might not even be as linear a beast as we suppose it to be.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

we will discover a breakthrough in space technology soon enough which will allow us to traverse space
and the breakthrough may not be fully understood to begin with , but we will utilise it regardless of the consequences

a reply to: andy06shake

Time is an infinite loop
well thats what i think it is a looping fractal
just like everything else

its circular in nature

many cycles within cycles , a wheel within wheels

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

we will discover a breakthrough in space technology soon enough which will allow us to traverse space
and the breakthrough may not be fully understood to begin with , but we will utilise it regardless of the consequences

Looks like the warp drive nasa is experimenting with has made sme breakthroughs in the amount of energy it would require. Bringing it back into the realm of possibility.

a reply to: sapien82
Perhaps, and I hope you are correct. But it won't be discovered while trying to figure out how to send MAN to another solar system. IF some breakthrough like you suggest is in fact discovered it will be discovered completely by accident while researching some completely unrelated area of study.

Mount everest!
they climb it because it was there.
Man wanted to see god! no one home!
now ever one climbs mount everest.
and still many die! but they still do it.
north & south pole to.

its some thing to do with evolution, I think.
Curiosity! it pushes us to see and do things.
even if it kills us.
and I think some how because we have a large population.
if it was small we would huddle together to keep safe.

We Need the Idiots who rush off to die!
the ones who DONT bring back Great news!!!
Look at Ants.
they send out scouts and dont care if they die.
that is when they have large numbers.
because what that one ant may find is a great boon the the nest.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

sigh

reread the links please. Orion doesn't require antimater.

sheesh.

Oh, and I neglected to mention the Breakthrough Starshot vehicle will exert a 10,000g force on the starshot vehicle.

A human can withstand what...about ~13g? There were experiments many years ago where the human body was subjected to forces in excess of 40g's for a very brief period of time, but as a general rule subjecting the human body to a sustained 10g force for 60 seconds is generally fatal.

The Breakthrough Starshot vehicle would accelerate at 10,000g's for 600 seconds.

Hmmmmm.

Yeah, there's the whole 'shock-absorber' thing, but then the duration of acceleration increases exponentially as well. Not to mention the shock-absorber thing is designed to deal with a completely different propulsion technology and isn't even addressed in the Breakthrough Starshot concept.

And then there's the whole slowing down part too. And the fuel / technology required to actually slow down which is weight and mass either way.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I'm sorry, but I'm done trying to educate you on how we accelerate manned missions.

You've obviously skimmed and not read to fully understand.

Look up: acceleration of 1g and acceleration times vs. velocity.

Of course it won't matter very much as you have shown all through this thread that you are one who will not be swayed in your opinion. That's fine, as that's pretty much whom I've dealt with here on ATS when it comes to Nibiru Believers, Pole Shifters, Moon Hoaxers and Flat Earthers. So it really shouldn't surprise me.

It's okay though. The good news is the human spirit to explore and overcome obstacles always overwhelm the naysayers and we do end up exploring, expanding and spreading out.

Humans will walk on the Moon again, will walk on the surface of Mars, will inhabit the solar system in orbital colonies and will eventually spread out among the stars eventually. So I'm not really worried about it. And arguing with you over it is pointless as it will happen anyways.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Okay, but then you're talking about detonating 800 thermonuclear devices in the atmosphere. Plus, the time frame is longer than stated, something like 88 years, not 44 (something trusty ol' Wikipedia neglects to mention). Well, that is if you want to actually stop at Proxima Centauri anyway, and not just take a tour through the universe.

I always thought that colonization of other planets and moons was a way of tackling future population increases.



Right now, the earth is still plentiful for the 7 billion or so that live on the surface, but the trajectory of population growth is such that estmates are that the earth will have 28 billion people in 2150.

I wonder what the upper limit for human beings on earth is before life becomes very harsh and indeed our freedoms to even start families is curtailed?

originally posted by: UKTruth
I always thought that colonization of other planets and moons was a way of tackling future population increases.

Right now, the earth is still plentiful for the 7 billion or so that live on the surface, but the trajectory of population growth is such that estmates are that the earth will have 28 billion people in 2150.

I wonder what the upper limit for human beings on earth is before life becomes very harsh and indeed our freedoms to even start families is curtailed?

It may not be that simple. We are a blyte away from disaster because of monoculture.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: eriktheawful

Okay, but then you're talking about detonating 800 thermonuclear devices in the atmosphere. Plus, the time frame is longer than stated, something like 88 years, not 44 (something trusty ol' Wikipedia neglects to mention). Well, that is if you want to actually stop at Proxima Centauri anyway, and not just take a tour through the universe.

sigh

Again: please educate yourself - you don't launch it from the surface of the Earth.

:smh:

a reply to: eriktheawful

It's okay though. The good news is the human spirit to explore and overcome obstacles always overwhelm the naysayers and we do end up exploring, expanding and spreading out.

Not in our lifetimes, maybe...but, yeah, our children's children will walk on Mars. Their children's children maybe will look up at the sky and see strange shapes in the stars.

To say otherwise is to completely and utterly disregard the, seemingly, DNA deep need for man to explore and push the horizons backwards.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Heh, fair enough.

You know, in the interest of compromise I will say this; in many respects I understand and respect why you have the opinion you do. I understand why you are so unwilling to accept that man will never visit the stars you gaze upon on a regular basis. And, it's just that too, your love of astronomy. For that I can find no fault at all. It truly is a magical place, the Universe.

I don't agree with your position on the OP, but I respect it based on the above. Honestly, if there was one person here on ATS I would hope I could NOT sway their opinion on the OP, it would be you. And, I admire your conviction on the matter. Nor would I ever profess to stop research into fascinating subjects like space research (I only hope I've been crystal clear on this point all along).

All the best, and may your stellar pursuits be rewarding.

a reply to: luthier

Indeed... we are in fact struggling to provide a healthy life to a large percentage of the population already, blight or no.
One wonders what a world of 28bn people will be like in a hundred or so years.

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: luthier

Indeed... we are in fact struggling to provide a healthy life to a large percentage of the population already, blight or no.
One wonders what a world of 28bn people will be like in a hundred or so years.

Have you watched or read the Expanse? I think probably something like that.