My visit to The Skinwalker Ranch, 2018

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The part that bakes my noodle is the interface between the finite than the infinite. The difference is both infinite and finite. Realities upon realities based on a paradox

Well well well....it appears we may know who else might be in Jeremy's movie. Or at least has a connection to the ranch, as has been speculated here. Look in the back seat

a reply to: vlawde

The plot “officially” thickens. I know the speculation has been there, but that photo is convincing enough for me.

originally posted by: vlawde
Well well well....it appears we may know who else might be in Jeremy's movie. Or at least has a connection to the ranch, as has been speculated here. Look in the back seat

I have an issue with this. All of the major players within the "community" or the topic in general are all connected. Lazar and Lear, Lear and the CIA and aircraft design legacy, Lazar and Knapp, Knapp and Bigelow, Bigelow and Coast2Coast(in the beginning,)Bigelow and MUFON, MUFON and the all the "top" UFOlogists and their podcasts and merchandise and conference talks, Leslie Kean and TTSA and the Intelligence community and skunkworks and TDL.

I know I have laid it out very simply, but think of all of the top theories / stories from the last 20 years and ultimately they all involve one or a mixture of the above. I would be happy for someone to mention a BIG UFO / UAP story that doesn't?

I really like some of the aforementioned a well, even if just as entertainment, but this all plays out sometimes like nothing more than a entertainment industry mixed in with disinformation to achieve.... well I don't know.

If the "truth" whatever that maybe, comes out and is vastly different than what any of the above have ever declared then what?

May seem like I am ranting, but in all honesty, with all the mud and mirk in the water; I may even withdraw from the whole subject matter for a while and revisit it to see if anythings changed in the future, as the more "answers" we are served the more the whole subject becomes more unbearable and more unreadable as time progresses.

But hey....maybe that's the point..

a reply to: pigsy2400

I understand your point of view. I've posted something like this dozens of times:

UFOlogy = personal delusion + institutional deception.
(but no UFOs or aliens.. there aint any).

That's why I'm on the way out of UFOlogy too.. the man behind the curtain
has had the curtain ripped away, and he was discovered standing there,
spending public money on nothing and diddling himself.

As to something more real?

That stops around 1965 or so, when the "good spirits" (whatever the hell that
really means) left and the golden age of UFO's ended.

Otherwise?

You have to leave the USA behind, as it's close to 100% deception these
days (and mostly in the past too) and look at places like Colares, Brazil.

You find yourself either leaving UFOlogy behind entirely, or you become
an occultist, which most can't stomach.

I was an occultist for almost 50 years BEFORE looking into UFOs.. so it was
a natural progression for me.

At first I knew nothing about government deception, but the superb work
of people like The GUT and MM got me up to speed quickly.

That and personal discussions with people who know things.

There is no real ufology..

there is the study of deception and the occult.

and the occult is just a (much worse) form of deception.

Kev

originally posted by: vlawde
Well well well....it appears we may know who else might be in Jeremy's movie. Or at least has a connection to the ranch, as has been speculated here. Look in the back seat

Is that Tom DeLonge back there throwing the gang sign?

a reply to: olaru12

www.coasttocoastam.com...

a reply to: olaru12

Haha yup, the real OG!

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Them figures are horrific, i despise rapists and pedos, they never change.

There is a lot of good people on the planet but with the way our governments are working, the good people will not last much longer (i fear). I have walked this planet for 40 years deluded, i now see it for what it is.

BUT i (think) would love to visit Skinwalkers before my time is up.

a reply to: Redback

Evolution with Natural selection will always favor the most successful
predator, who is also the best liar,

so that they will get the benefits of civilized society, but then also
feed on it, to get more than their fair share of resources / power.

You can read papers on this topic under anthropology / game theory.

That's how an Apex predator (us) would tend to evolve amoung
social mammals. (a wolf in sheeps clothing).

As for SWR, it's surrounded by property owned by Roberg Bigelow's friend
and it would seem that many of the same people from the past,
and perhaps other wannabee movie-makers are involved in the present.

So I may not be interested in visiting the movie set after all...
I don't think I know anyone who could get me an invitation,
and I might not be a good guest.. even though this very thing
is my specialty.. I'm a SMR with more than 50 years experience
with "the Phenomenon".

so I might be visiting the San Luis valley. It's every bit as good,
minus all the fingers in the stew pot.

Kev

The thing about a mystery like SWR or the Phenomenon in general, is that people get to apply to it their own philosophy, religious beliefs, theories and notions about what it is... It can honestly be whatever we want, right? Aliens, ghosts, disembodied spirits, electromagnetic waves that mess with our perceptions, intelligent plasmas, AI, demons, monsters, angels, bigfoot, spaceships, inter-dimensional bogarts, elves, fairies, djinn, gods, etc.

We can become quite invested in our own ideas.

Should The Phenomenon be revealed in full (or as fully as something like that is possible to be revealed), it is going to blow apart a lot of people's ideas about what "it" is and, to their thinking, what it "should" be, based on their own research, experience, desires, beliefs, etc...

I think that gets scary for a lot of folks, not just the religious kind, but also scientists locked in their own materialist boxes, and UFO/UAP/Phenomenon researchers who have invested themselves in their own ideas and promoted them, etc.

We may "seek the truth" and "deny ignorance," yet I can't help but notice an equal amount of passion invested in what may be self-protection, as much as anything else... You see, there is a tendency to deride and put down anything/anyone that doesn't fit in one's own "should" box...and even the brightest researchers of the Phenomenon may also be human enough to want to protect "their box."

And of course there is also the tendency to self-protect by not wanting to seem naive or gullible, to label everything as "snake oil" because that feels safest, rather than consider that some dodgy rascal has stumbled upon a truth so many have spent their lives seeking...

And if the "truth" is revealed and the mystery uncovered, it means a lot of people will reject it outright because it isn't what they think it should be...it isn't "theirs." It seems to "belong" to whatever person or group came out with it, which are now held suspect, worthy of distrust and derision because...well, it's "not right," or "not THAT bloke!" and any number of conspiracies could be applied to discredit them.

Those who have potentially discovered the Truth (presuming they actually have) are themselves only human, not infallible gods, but seekers whose candle happened to light enough of the Void to enable them to see a new piece of the Grand Mystery. So they are all vulnerable to imperfection, should that be what people choose to see and go after.

But, the Truth is the Truth, however it is found and no matter who cracks the code -- it belongs to all of us. It may not be what anyone wants or expects. It may break our internal and external "rules." It may challenge our years of experience and rip apart our own cherished understandings, ideas, knowledge and beliefs. But it may just also be true that, once that happens and the dust settles, "the Truth will set us free."



Just food for thought here... *folds up soapbox and slips quietly into the background*

a reply to: AboveBoard

You are 100% correct.

If you are indirectly talking about me as well (which is fine), I totally concur
that I have to be careful not to use my "strong personality" to shut down
others sometimes, when they have something legitimate o say.

I self monitor for that behavior on my part.. but i'm quite imperfect.

i guess my only real response to you, other than that I agree with pretty
much every word you wrote (good post!),

is that in UFOlogy and the paranormal, there is so much government interference
and deception.. and deception on the part of so many groups... either on purpose,
or due to their own self-delusion..

that the BS gets so thick, it's nearly impossible to make any real progress.

I have NO IDEA how "corrupted' the current SWR ranch ownership is..
zero percent? Maybe. I don't know. One Hundred percent? Possibly.. you don't
have to be very cynical to theorize that this is just Robert Bigelow
and crew in their latest incarnation.

But I don't want to throw stones.. other than to admit freely, that if
TDL is involved, I'll have to hold my stomach not to power vomit.

I wish every genuine researcher, including the current ones, the very
best at SWR and all other projects.

I do not "own" anything in this world.. not even my body... not even
my "soul" (long story about that one). I'm a temporary transcient
ripple... that tries to be a good guy, but I do have personal
interests and goals like everyone else.

but I have no i desire to mow anyone down.. or interfere with
anyone's happiness.. unless of course they are totally like
a serial killer.. then they need to be put down before they
hurt anyone.

Kev

a reply to: AboveBoard

Very well said! I think viewing things through filters is exactly what keeps us from the truth. To attribute SWR activity to UFOs for example, is similar to a highly religious person who tries to validate their beliefs by seeing 'signs of God' in things like burnt toast because it looks like Jesus.

For me, the fact that the ranch reportedly has every kind of paranormal stuff going on makes it all the more fascinating. IMO if everything at the ranch can ever be explained, we'd be closer to the truth than simply looking at UFOs, ghosts, cryptids etc as separate phenomena

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

KPB, I was not being specific to you as I've made this observation over a very long number of years from before you ever came to ATS, but I will say that a certain "rascal" has a lot of folk here thinking the worst of him and his venture. People, like Greer, are also freaking out over TDL and company. And Bigelow, he is also being judged -- I used to think the same way, but then, if I were a billionaire, I might be dumping money into similar ventures myself!

We will know TTSA by it's "fruits" so to speak, and it has yet to come to fruition - the seeds have been planted and it's being watered, but what will grow? I am patient in that regard. More will be known very soon, I think.

Deception? Well, this is a world of deception, no? Of Maya/illusion? And nothing is more deceptive than the Phenomenon itself. We are easily deceived by our own perceptions, no High Strangeness needed! How much moreso when someone or something puts a bit of effort into it? No doubt one must wade through a sea of it to get to the essence of any truth.

And our government, in an effort to self-protect (there that is again!) can also be very deceptive, especially about things that are powerful and not under their control that may have both strategic and security implications (can't have the other countries knowing what we do and don't know about something like the Phenomenon!) It is not all ignoble deception...there are shades of grey involved (pun intended).


Humility in the face of the Void is always a good quality to develop, as our human minds are only riding along a very thin slice of "reality," spiraling through an average galaxy around a modest yellow sun in an unremarkable arm of strewn stars.

We are tiny, yet glorious, flotsam in the wide, wild universe.

And as wise and knowledgable as our thousands of years of collective experience and upward complexity have made us, we are still barely born infants in the realm of cosmic consciousness.

We are but a blink in the eye of the world, much less the universe, and what we don't know vastly exceeds what we do. The past and the future are nearly equal mysteries, and the Phenomenon, our constant odd companion, I'm certain, is fully in both.

a reply to: AboveBoard

You are on a roll today, of good posts.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Oh I've been meaning to ask you..

doesn't the fact that TDL and crew have been caught red-handed
multiple times with fake UFO images (to include the Nimitz one)

make you less trusting?

Doesn't the fact that making money seems a major focus..
and everything has to be a for-profit book or movie make you
dubious?

If I ever write a 'tell all" it will be FREE. I'm not rich.. much less rich
than TDL and I don't have to extract money with a dubious shell
company scheme.. to put out some basic info!

Tom could hire someone to put out a 100 page PDF, for free,
and that would be more than enough to communicate every major point
about "UFOlogy and the "paranormal"" which wasn't BS.

Kev

Mods, kindly delete this glitch, please.

originally posted by: pigsy2400

originally posted by: vlawde
Well well well....it appears we may know who else might be in Jeremy's movie. Or at least has a connection to the ranch, as has been speculated here. Look in the back seat

I have an issue with this. All of the major players within the "community" or the topic in general are all connected. Lazar and Lear, Lear and the CIA and aircraft design legacy, Lazar and Knapp, Knapp and Bigelow, Bigelow and Coast2Coast(in the beginning,)Bigelow and MUFON, MUFON and the all the "top" UFOlogists and their podcasts and merchandise and conference talks, Leslie Kean and TTSA and the Intelligence community and skunkworks and TDL.

I know I have laid it out very simply, but think of all of the top theories / stories from the last 20 years and ultimately they all involve one or a mixture of the above. I would be happy for someone to mention a BIG UFO / UAP story that doesn't?

I really like some of the aforementioned a well, even if just as entertainment, but this all plays out sometimes like nothing more than a entertainment industry mixed in with disinformation to achieve.... well I don't know.

If the "truth" whatever that maybe, comes out and is vastly different than what any of the above have ever declared then what?

May seem like I am ranting, but in all honesty, with all the mud and mirk in the water; I may even withdraw from the whole subject matter for a while and revisit it to see if anythings changed in the future, as the more "answers" we are served the more the whole subject becomes more unbearable and more unreadable as time progresses.

But hey....maybe that's the point..

2000 illinois ufo incident

2006 o'hare ufo

Anyway, since there is no actual footage on offer in this production, I am of the opinion that the phenomenon is NO LONGER THERE; if it was even there at all.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: AboveBoard

Oh I've been meaning to ask you..

doesn't the fact that TDL and crew have been caught red-handed
multiple times with fake UFO images (to include the Nimitz one)

make you less trusting?

Doesn't the fact that making money seems a major focus..
and everything has to be a for-profit book or movie make you
dubious?

If I ever write a 'tell all" it will be FREE. I'm not rich.. much less rich
than TDL and I don't have to extract money with a dubious shell
company scheme.. to put out some basic info!

Tom could hire someone to put out a 100 page PDF, for free,
and that would be more than enough to communicate every major point
about "UFOlogy and the "paranormal"" which wasn't BS.

Kev

I will answer you as quickly as I can, but please, let's not distract from the main topic, in spite of the 2015 photo of TDL with folks in a car...

1. It depends on how you interpret the use of the photos... I see it as generating interest and utilizing things from the web as illustrations. I have heard Elizondo as a representative of TTSA (sp?) express regret that their use of the photos was, in retrospect, ill advised, given the blow-back. They weren't trying to deceive or claim fake as true, but merely use images to generate interest, excitement and to illustrate...

I'm ok with that explanation. I've never heard any of them make claims that the photos were "real." Many will find that an unforgivable offense, and it will fuel their distrust/self-protection/disbelief to the point of going no further...*shrug* I don't consider those "fruits" of TTSA as much as misfired marketing.

2. Money money money... You can't make movies and other cool stuff without it!! Nor can you start a big organization and attract top talent to work with you, nor can you develop R&D for technology without it...

Look, IMO, this isn't a money-making venture for TDL so much as a rich person's passion project. As to the books, merchandise, branding, etc., there is a savvy sense that what TTSA is doing is not just "truth telling" but rolling out feature films, documentary series for television, novels, factual books, etc. all in an effort to slowly acclimatize and educate the masses, especially younger folks, who would not bother to pick up a series of "tell all" tomes (like the non-fiction book written with Peter Levenda). I've heard (and I'm not sure which source) that TDL has actually dumped a HUGE amount of money into creating TTSA, which is what got the other folks on board to begin with... I wish I could quote that source, but for now I leave it as unsourced but definitely something I read/heard/saw somewhere... (anyone help with that?)

I hope that helps. I am a naturally forgiving person, and I know that Tom and company are human. I expect there will be mistakes made at times.

(Now, again, let's not derail this into a TDL thread...we have a couple of those already...lol! )

PS - thank you for your kind words in regard to my posts. This one may disappoint you, but I'm rather beyond caring if people think I'm gullible/dellusional/nuts/stupid or whatever in regards to my patience and general hopefulness regarding TTSA. Or anything really. Only time will tell...