F.B.I. Raids Office of Trump’s Longtime Lawyer Michael Cohen

a reply to: soberbacchus

I am not enthusiastic. I am sad.

So am I.

I am sad that anyone would wish the destruction of a sitting US President based on allegations of what a lawyer might have done.

Bigly sad.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: soberbacchus

The illegality is going to be centered on the "fixing" Cohen engages in.

Where he got the money and what he used it for.

There is at least one allegation of a thug threatening Stormy Daniels children.

Is Trump implicated in any of that?

Allegations are not convictions. Verbal threats are notoriously hard to prove or disprove.

TheRedneck

If they bring those charges they already found the thug Cohen hired.
Not difficult to prove then.

That aside. Seriously Cohen's world crumbling is real and it might not look like it now, but Trump is anchored to Cohen.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: soberbacchus

I am not enthusiastic. I am sad.

So am I.

I am sad that anyone would wish the destruction of a sitting US President based on allegations of what a lawyer might have done.

Bigly sad.

TheRedneck

Cohen in a minion. You can pray for distance from Trump all you like, but facts have a way of surviving.

It looks like he was in Prague despite his lies. Even congress wasn't buying his timeline.

That can of worms can not be undone. If he was in Prague and lied about it, he lied for a reason. Trump would have known and the FBI has the evidence. It is dominoes from here.

a reply to: soberbacchus

OK, let's say the court finds Cohen guilty of everything he is accused of. He misappropriated campaign funds, he violated campaign finance laws, he hired a thug to threaten Daniels' family. Heck, let's say someone passes a new law and they get him for lying to a bank! He's guilty as sin, and he's going to spend so much time in the Federal pen that his bones will be dust before he gets out.

How does that implicate Trump? How is it illegal, or even immoral, to hire a lawyer who violated the law? If I go down and hire a lawyer, and he's been running a counterfeit ring out of his back room, am I somehow guilty of counterfeiting? Do I support counterfeiting? Am I responsible for his counterfeiting?

My God in Heaven... How do you make that leap?

TheRedneck

a reply to: soberbacchus

All I can say is, you live in a very scary world.

One I want no part of. i prefer justice to revenge.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: soberbacchus

All I can say is, you live in a very scary world.

One I want no part of. i prefer justice to revenge.

TheRedneck

There is one thing from today that would cause me to reconsider the Russian ties to the campaign - if Cohen did visit Prague. If that is proven then my general assessment would likely lean towards there being coordination with Russia in some way during the campaign. Whether that was to influence the election via nefarious means is another matter, but some connection nonetheless.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: soberbacchus

All I can say is, you live in a very scary world.

One I want no part of. i prefer justice to revenge.

TheRedneck

I prefer a world where Pence is not POTUS, but I would choose justice first.

I don't understand the "revenge" comment, but likely that is because you don't understand me.

Someone that is repulsed by corruption and feels deep patriotism and pride for this country might seem alien to you.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: soberbacchus

OK, let's say the court finds Cohen guilty of everything he is accused of.
He misappropriated campaign funds,
he violated campaign finance laws, he hired a thug to threaten Daniels' family.
Heck, let's say someone passes a new law and they get him for lying to a bank!
He's guilty as sin, and he's going to spend so much time in the Federal pen that his bones will be dust before he gets out.

How does that implicate Trump?

None of that would.

It looks awfully convenient when you can fly forward in time and summarize both what the raid was about and the charges that result from it.

What happens if he was laundering campaign funds at Trumps direction?
What happens if there is a payment to the guy that Stormy Daniels claims threatened her children?

Otherwise, nothing you proposed would warrant the kind of raid on a sitting Presidents attorney that AGs, Judges and Rosenstein signed off on.

The reality of what this raid was about, whatever it is, is going to be much worse than that.

a reply to: UKTruth

I don't doubt for one moment that Russia wanted to influence our election. Of course they did, because they want the easiest person possible to negotiate with. We probably interfere in their elections. None of that is right; all of it is wrong. But it is also reality.

The question is not whether Russia interfered with our elections, but was Trump assisting them? I don't think he was, and all of the legal theories I have seen so far devolve into great big piles of silliness when questioned. I would believe Clinton was assisting them before I would believe Trump was.

Of course, if someone, somehow, somewhere proves that Trump was indeed working with Russians to throw the election, I'll want his head on a platter.

It just ain't happened yet, and the insane theories about how he might be convicted if A, B, C, D, and E all happen in parallel conjunction with F and G just make me disbelieve any chance of his guilt more.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Just Trump? Personally?

It doesn't matter if others involved with his campaign were involved?

Would any knowledge, on Trump's part, of such "collusion", be bad?

Plausible deniability?

a reply to: soberbacchus

None of that would.

Thank you. That's all I am trying to get across.

It looks awfully convenient when you can fly forward in time and summarize both what the raid was about and the charges that result from it.

True. All those 'charges' I listed are what others in this thread have proposed. I'm still waiting for charges... I thought charges had to be levied within a certain time frame after property was seized... something about "due process"?

It had better be something YUGE to excuse a raid on the lawyer of a sitting President against attorney-client privilege. Otherwise I will be calling for the heads of everyone who signed off on those warrants, including Sessions. I am already nervous about him as of late.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Phage

The person I voted for was Donald J. Trump. I did not cast a vote for Michael Cohen or Paul Manafort. If they are guilty of a crime, especially a felony, then lock them up.

If Trump is guilty of high crimes, impeach him and lock him up. But you have to prove the charges first, so leave him be until you can.

If it is discovered that Trump had foreknowledge that Russia was interfering with our elections through his campaign, and did nothing to stop it, yes, that would be 'bad.' I do not support him blindly; I support him for the positions he took during the campaign and the good he has done for me and the country since being elected.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

The investigation is not limited to, or centered on Trump.
Given that Russia attempted to influence the election, is the investigation a witch hunt? If there is reason to suspect involvement with the Trump campaign, should that path of investigation be allowed to proceed?

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: soberbacchus

All I can say is, you live in a very scary world.

One I want no part of. i prefer justice to revenge.

TheRedneck

There is one thing from today that would cause me to reconsider the Russian ties to the campaign - if Cohen did visit Prague. If that is proven then my general assessment would likely lean towards there being coordination with Russia in some way during the campaign. Whether that was to influence the election via nefarious means is another matter, but some connection nonetheless.

When Obama told Russian President Dmitry Medvedev he would have more room after the election to abandon our missile defense was he colluding with Russia?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TheRedneck

The investigation is not limited to, or centered on Trump.
Given that Russia attempted to influence the election, is the investigation a witch hunt? If there is reason to suspect involvement with the Trump campaign, should that path of investigation be allowed to proceed?

Russian interference and Russia Trump collusion are 2 separate issues that the left likes to link to muddy the waters and nothing more. Democrats managed to link the 2 using the fake dossier Clinton / Obama and the DNC paid for.

Is there evidence Russia interfered in our elections? Yes (and Trump has stated this numerous times).
Is there evidence TRump "colluded" with Russia to win the election? Nope

There is however evidence the Clinton campaign and DNC did collude with foreign nationals, British, Australian and Russians, in an effort to defraud the American people in order to win an election. When they lost they decided a coup would be needed.

a reply to: TheRedneck

You mean based on what his personal bagman that only seems to have worked for trump.. did, almost certainly for trump. Since he really didn’t have any other clients...



It’s not for sure, but since trump is basically his only employer. It is a fairly safe bet he was doing whatever crimes on trumps orders..

a reply to: UKTruth

Well.. they have basically confirmed that lol..

How did the email from jr. Laying out that he colluded with the Russians word for word. Not pass your bar, but Prague does?!?!

I will say that I have always left room for putin to be setting trump up..

Putin Sets up a few meeting with trump people that look innocent before hand. Then putin leaks to the US Intelligence circles that trump and him are making a deal. Knowing that Russia and the CIA/FBI are ancestral enemies, so there is no way they don’t flip their lids...

Maybe putin gets the Jr. email sent knowing it will be intercepted.. which would explain why it was so detailed and is just the worst illegal talking ever done.. literally no ennuendo was used..

They literally spelled out “Russian government “ multiple times..

Then putin drops the stolen DNC stafffer/podesta emails at just the right moment to benefit trump..



BOOM America explodes and putin laughs his way to the bank..

HOWEVER, here’s the kicker!!!!!!

Why wouldn’t putin make the deal once the trump crew replied “I love it. Let’s set up a meeting!!”


At that point it benefits putin to engage in a deal..

If he can get proof of a deal he owns trump..and I think it’s fair to say. Putin an Co. are better spies than trumps people..

a reply to: carewemust

He won’t be prosecuted for tampering just for making a photo becall.. but he would have to assume the fbi was taping anything he said.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

The Trump Jr meeting is nothing that interesting.
Contacts and discussions with the Russian govt is also not interesting.
That's just fodder for anti-Trumpers to keep them salivating.

The only thing that would be an issue is if Trump ordered his team to share intel and pooled resources to target electoral races and were involved in hacking the DNC.

If Cohen was in Prague - and no, it has not been 'basically' confirmed - then it would lead me to suspect that there were contacts, with a greater possibility of the above, although it may have been a back channel for comms to discuss plans if and when Trump became President.

The 'collusion' charge is that there was a coordinated effort to hack and leak DNC and Podesta documents and plan the election campaign. Unless that is proven then the 'collusion' claims remain claims only. If it is proven with actual evidence that there was election coordination then we'll have more than just soothing dreams for liberals to talk about.

a reply to: UKTruth

Jake Tapper from CNN already debunked the Prague narrative. Not to mention Cohen was in California at the time with witnesses who place him there.

This is nothing more than a desperate attempt by the left to keep this charade going.