F.B.I. Raids Office of Trump’s Longtime Lawyer Michael Cohen

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Meniscus
a reply to: F4guy

I must be missing how a personal equity loan is bank fraud or breaks campaign finance laws. If you pay off a porn star to sign an nda.

Paying money on Trumps behalf constitutes a gift. There is a legal limit on how much money you can gift to a Presidential candidate.

Trump repaying the money also goes against the legal limitations on what campaign funds can be used for.

If Trump repaid Cohen out of his personal funds, this wouldn't be an issue... using campaign funds has strings attached though.

Basically, Trump is such a stable genius that he took a relatively minor civil suit, and then made every legal misstep he could have possibly made, and turned it into a major criminal suit.

So the 750K clinton gave McCabe's wife was within the limits?

Interesting, it was paid by an LLC tho, not a personal contribution.

Except it wasn't 750K
Clinton didn't give it
And it wasn't an LLC

Democratic Party of Virginia: 207,788
Common Good Virginia PAC: 467,500
The Clintons aren't even listed on the top 40 donors:
www.vpap.org...

www.factcheck.org...

www.politifact.com...

And McCabe's wife lost that election before McCabe was promoted to a role in the Clinton Investigation.

Believe it or not, there used to be a time when the site whose motto was "Deny Ignorance" would moderate people that consistently, proudly and willfully lied. ATS feels more like a propaganda outlet for the Right Wing some days than a site with the motto "Denys Ignorance".

a reply to: soberbacchus

Well when the Republican Party is based on conspiracy theories, what do you expect???

They can’t even begin to claim they have a plan for the future and changing times. So they fabricate a fictional universe where the opposition are devil worshipering, socialist , snowflakes, who wanna take all the guns and I don’t even know what else....

If you take that away they have nothing.. there is no right wing position that can’t be answered by “I shouldn’t have to help pay for that” that isn’t some crazy conspiracy..

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: yuppa

Because you are not legally allowed to lie to the bank about the reason for your loan....


For example: if I ask for a loan to start a buisness, then instead of starting that buisness I take a vacation. That’s bank fraud..


Don’t worry.. they don’t prosecute big wig politicians for that small of a crime..


So you can believe what they have on Cohen is worse than that lol.

No its not fraud. If it was id be in jail a long time ago. You dont have to legally tell the bank what you are spending the money on. I got a loan for a car for 5 grand. used 1 grand on the car. kept the rest. OOh i committed fraud! someone arest me! get real.

COHEN got a MORTAGE on SOMETHING HE OWNED. did he lie about the collatorral? NOPE. DId he pay them it back? Yes he did or is. Muellers got nothing this time around as well with this angle. If it was fraud just get the bank records.
No this is the two tiered justice system that trys to kill off republicans/conservatives for something anyone else can do if they have a D in front of their name without so much as a cock eyed look.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
So the 750K clinton gave McCabe's wife was within the limits?

Interesting, it was paid by an LLC tho, not a personal contribution.

Another poster already covered this, but that money came through PAC's which operate under a different set of rules as they don't directly coordinate with a campaign.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: yuppa

Because you are not legally allowed to lie to the bank about the reason for your loan....


For example: if I ask for a loan to start a buisness, then instead of starting that buisness I take a vacation. That’s bank fraud..


Don’t worry.. they don’t prosecute big wig politicians for that small of a crime..


So you can believe what they have on Cohen is worse than that lol.

No its not fraud. If it was id be in jail a long time ago. You dont have to legally tell the bank what you are spending the money on. I got a loan for a car for 5 grand. used 1 grand on the car. kept the rest. OOh i committed fraud! someone arest me! get real.

Technically yes, it is called Bank Fraud.
You can't borrow 30K for home improvements and claim the same on bank documents and then spend it on coc aine.

That said, that is not what this raid was about. Bank fraud would warrant a subpoena and court date for Cohen, but not a multi-location raid by the FBI on a warrant signed of on by multiple Trump appointees to search the personal attorney of a sitting president.

Stormy Daniels is a straw-man. No doubt that payment via Cohen's mystery LLC was part of the search, but it is something else or the totality of Money coming and going from undisclosed sources that provoked this kind of raid in my (and a tonnage of legal and investigative) opinions.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: TheRedneck

I've seen the space on applications, but I don't think it's an approve/deny question. But more importantly, if bank fraud is what they're going for, why were they raiding his personal conversations? All they have to do is subpoena the records from the bank. Same with wire fraud. A persons personal documents would have hardly any bearing on either offense.

What makes you think they didn't already go to the bank and get evidence as part of making their case to raid his office?

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Dfairlite

Ah, OK, thank you!

So... why would Cohen have any? Does he run a taxi service?

TheRedneck

They're essentially a license to operate a taxi in New York, the state offers a limited number of taxi medallions, in order to prevent the streets from becoming too congested with taxi's. Some people buy them and then rent them out to taxi drivers as an investment. They used to be worth $1 million each, but with the rise of ride sharing services like Uber and Lyft which operate without needing medallions their value has crashed to being worth about $100,000 each.

Taking them would be part of taking his financial information to look for whatever it is they're looking for.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Scrubdog

Why do you care? Did you care about Larry Sinclair's claims? Did you feel bad for Michelle and were you disgusted that Malia was only a year old when Obama cheated with Larry?

One is a right wing homo-erotic fiction smear campaign without any basis in reality.

The other is an active court case with compelling evidence.

Larry was arrested at his press conference on a bogus warrant issued out of Beau Biden's office and falsely imprisoned. Personally, I think that's far more damning evidence than an NDA.

And, yeah...there is no active court case because eventually all of the phony criminal charges were dropped, and Larry won the defamation case filed against him.

He had open warrants in Colorado, nothing to do with Biden.
www.politico.com...

Public records and court filings reveal that he has a 27-year criminal record, with a specialty in crimes involving deceit. The record includes forgery charges in two states, one of which drew Sinclair a 16-year jail sentence. The Pueblo County, Colo., Sheriff's Office also has an outstanding warrant for Sinclair's arrest for forging an acquaintance's signature and stealing her tax refunds.

"It is what it is," said Sinclair's spokesman, Montgomery Blair Sibley, of his client's criminal record. "He's not hiding from it, he's not denying it."

...

Sinclair's affidavit, which he posted to his blog, accompanied a request to a Colorado judge to dismiss the warrant on the grounds that Sinclair was "disabled with [a] severe spine injury and nerve damage," that returning to Colorado would put his life in danger, and that he was "terminally ill."

Sinclair, who is still alive, is 46, stands 5'7", and weights 168 pounds, according to arrest records. Colorado records list him with 13 aliases, including "Larye Vizcarra Avila" and "Mohammed Gahanan."

Believe what you like, but that there is some crazy.

That's what is so absolutely horrible about what happened to Larry.

Politico was just assuming the warrant was out of Colorado, but it was Delaware:
Slate


...and you were fooled by fake news.

That should piss you off.

Smears and lies...that's how the media treated Larry....but it's all a right wing fantasy, eh?


ETA: AND, again, the bogus charges were ultimately dropped but not until AFTER Larry was made a political prisoner.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Not T&C to derail the thread here. I don't see what you are getting at.
He had an open warrant in CO. Politico did not make up the graphic.
www.politico.com...

If there is some thread you want to meet me at relevant to the topic I'd be happy to debate it.

a reply to: yuppa


A 5,000 loan doesn’t have the same legal requirements that a big loan does.

For a big loan you do get asked what it’s for but , not for your average loan .

Maybe an FIC loan above X amounts of dollars..


YOU CANT LIE TO SOMEONE WHEN YOU ARE ASKING FOR MONEY OR IT IS FRAUD lol...

Even in the basest sense ..

Usually it is up to the lender if they decide to make a stink about it, but When dealing with the irs, publicly traded companies or stuff that is insured with tax payers dollars the state can charge you whether the lender does or not.


Why Cohen got an fic loan instead of paying cash.. I have no idea lol.

a reply to: soberbacchus

Yea.. I don’t think they would raid the president’s lawyer with out BIG LEAGUE evidence... and evidence of more than lying on a loan you were gonna pay and had the money to pay.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: soberbacchus

Yea.. I don’t think they would raid the president’s lawyer with out BIG LEAGUE evidence... and evidence of more than lying on a loan you were gonna pay and had the money to pay.

Cohen is more "fixer" than lawyer.
He's the guy you call for advice on getting rid of a body.
The reason he never came with Trump onboard at the WH is that he simply was too dirty.
He was more effective outside of view of Gov. and would never have survived the first security clearance interview.

The moment he revealed the LLC shell company he set up for the Stormy Payment so he could cover for Trump, he was sunk. It was a bad mistake. What other money flowed through that Shell Company? For what purposes? What other Shell Companies has he set up for hidden, illicit or off-the-books money flow? Where did the money come from and where did it go? Did he pay the thug in LV that threatened Stormy Daniels to keep quite? Do the feds have that guy?

And not-for-nothing, but why the hell wasn't it public that he was working for Cambridge Analytica's Law firm? Their offices in London were raided by Scotland Yard just a couple weeks ago.

Whoever has been tasked with sorting out what evidence seized appears criminal or relevant is likley thinking "where the hell to even start".

Cohen's statement to CNN after the raid seemed to reflect resignation and a touch of despair.
He knows he is cooked.

a reply to: knoxie

you HAVE NO IDEA what mueller knows - none!

And you do?

and, you ignore ALL the indictments and GUILTY pleas like they havn't happened.

Neither Trump not Cohen has been indicted or pleaded guilty to anything. Manafort has nothing to do with this.

you think this trump appointed lawyer and judge signed off on this with nothing???

OK, I see the cognitive dissonance. You're so deep in identity politics you don't know the difference between 'Trump' and 'Trump appointed' or 'Republican.'

They are not the same.

TheRedneck

a reply to: yuppa

You're wasting your breath. You could show him every single law on the books, not a one of which corroborates this 'bank fraud' fraud, and he would still accuse you of hiding a law. If he wants to live believing that he has to account for every single penny to a business that is only interested in getting as much money out of him as possible, let him wallow in ignorance.

TheRedneck

a reply to: soberbacchus

No reason to drag the convo out anywhere. You had said Larry's arrest had nothing to do with Biden (I think you called it "crazy") and pointed to fake-news Politico who only reported on a Colorado warrant and never bothered to report the actual story. And I was just clarifying that the bogus warrant with the invented charges was actually issued out of Beau Biden's Delaware Attorney General's office (...and just a few weeks before Joe Biden was named as Obama's running mate, btw).

I remember “a friend” had some math homework in school about 20 years ago...

Since “he” was decent at math, he knew how to do it, but in some cases, wasn’t required to “show the work.”

He “somehow” got the right answers (without doing the work) except for the ones he “accidentally” missed.

The teacher knew that he MUST’VE done the homework. I mean, look, there were the answers... Proof he did the homework.

There was a time or two we were supposed to show our work... He’ll turn that stuff in soon, after he gives it to his buddy to check over and correct.

(Rolls eyes)

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: soberbacchus

No reason to drag the convo out anywhere.

You had said Larry's arrest had nothing to do with Biden (I think you called it "crazy") and pointed to fake-news Politico who only reported on a Colorado warrant and never bothered to report the actual story. And I was just clarifying that the bogus warrant with the invented charges was actually issued out of Beau Biden's Delaware Attorney General's office (...and just a few weeks before Joe Biden was named as Obama's running mate, btw).

Strange to see the first sentence followed by the rest.

Best to you

a reply to: soberbacchus

Ha...that was just a brief clarification & summary, in my mind.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

Cohen is more "fixer" than lawyer.

The moment he revealed the LLC shell company he set up for the Stormy Payment so he could cover for Trump, he was sunk. It was a bad mistake. What other money flowed through that Shell Company? For what purposes? What other Shell Companies has he set up for hidden, illicit or off-the-books money flow? Where did the money come from and where did it go? Did he pay the thug in LV that threatened Stormy Daniels to keep quite? Do the feds have that guy?

This, right there is why I followed up on Essential Consultants LLC the moment I heard Trump say that he didn’t know where Cohen got the money to pay Daniels.

I’ve seen too many people try to use LLC’s to hide too many shady practices; all because they thought that an LLC would “protect” them like a corporation, but would be less regulated.

Kind of like back in the old days when so-called financial “experts” were telling everyone (including your dog!) to incorporate and save big money on taxes.

Lot of people followed their advice.

Lots and lots of people got seriously burned by the ensuing audits.

EC caught my attention because of how quickly it appears to have been assembled. Registered to do business on 10/17/16, the NDA was signed just days later.

Granted, filling out the paperwork to register an LLC doesn’t take very long, most of it can even be pretty “boilerplate”, especially if the LLC is being formed as an SMLLC. In that case it’s only you, as the owner of the company (note: Company, not Corporation) that needs to sign the registration documents.

But DE, where EC was registered, doesn’t recognize SMLLC’s, so EC had to have more than just Cohen as a member to be a legitimate entity legally empowered to enter into a contract with Daniels.

Unless, in his haste, Cohen just screwed up royally and filed as an SMLLC anyway?

The registration paperwork would be roughly the same, BUT,

Cohen would have needed the informed consent of at least ONE OTHER person who would have agreed to be a member of the LLC.

Who was that, or those, other person/people?

They would had to have been advised of the nature and purpose of the LLC ‘s formation in order to give “informed consent”.

Cohen could not have just filled in the names of some random friends or relatives on the registration forms without talking to them first. Or did he?

But who else would have been available to consent on such a tight timeframe?

Did Cohen have a special group of “usual suspects” who could be called upon to sign whatever documents Cohen tossed in front of them?

That sounds legit!

Maybe in this case the unnamed member was some one already familiar, very familiar, with the “particulars” of the circumstance,

Because they were one of the parties involved?

Could that have been Donny himself?


Trump should have learned, you lie down with dogs you wake up with fleas.

a reply to: Dfairlite

No it's not. Nunes makes another stupid threat. Good luck getting the votes. He will be laughed out of the chamber.
I wish we could place bets on this stuff.