Serious - Abductee Chat forum - 2018

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Sorry your bowing out Kev....

Did you ask for any tools?
Any advice that was dismissed?

I would like to think that all points of view are welcome here.
But with that in mind.
Tolerance must be observed to see true progress.

At one point in my life I would have embraced the subject very differently than I would now in my sixties.
Perspective is what can be gained here.

Just because someone feels the need to embrace the spiritual side of this subject does not mean that they are wonky...

Cultural universals are by definition part of the "mores" of every society.
When they are threatened people at first may not even understand why they are upset.
I hope this is a place that abductees can explore where they are right now.

I have spoken to some that were in the midst of their encounters.
We must be very supportive of their needs and current views.

I was helped by someone that told me to use the skills I had learned in the military.
Too observe...
Too weigh the actions that I could take...
Then react in a full-on manor with wild abandon once I had chosen to take an action...
(A well thought out course of action.)
And above all! Always be aware and be willing to change course.

Sometimes we have to pick our fights.
Inaction is sometimes the best course.
I have had more true effect on an abduction experience by observing.
Then exploiting arrogance on the abductors part.

What we as a group would suggest to an enabled Doctor with means.
Is not appropriate for a blue-collar worker.

Suggesting bunkering up to a Doctor would be suggesting that they quickly protect their cash assets.
Before saying a word or taking any action beyond removing themselves from easy picken's for these beings.

A blue-collar worker most likely would not have assets in hand that could be used to defend themselves in a non-costly manor. I kind of fall in the middle of these two class examples. I had knowledge but not much means. Stanton Freeman telling me that most people in my position had already lost their jobs was a kindness on his part.
My perspective was that that Stanton had threatened me because the shoe dropped that same month. My Perception changed much later when Travis Walton told me in a brief conversation that Stanton was speaking only from perspective. Not a threat… but truly a statement of wonder about how far I had come in my experience while remaining outside the eyes of those involved with the cover up.
So, It was not a surprise and I was somewhat prepared mentally for it. But being allowed to speak to other abductee’s and experts changed my perception of my interaction with Stanton.

Again that’s what this Forum is about.

I was learning who was who.
That they all had skin in the game as far as when someone was offering help.
That I had to be careful.

Many take this subject on as an object of whimsy to their peril.
I have seen it crumble those I believed strong.
I have seen those that felt that they had lost all security.
Over time come out the other side stronger.
We become hardened to not just judging people by their words but by their actions.
There are many that chose to walk away from different views.

Not some just nice nice easy to say pontification.
People are not weak because they acknowledge that there may be some spiritual significance in these matters.
The experiences that we have undergone are some of the most significant of a lifetime.
How could it not warp or change our perception of what we view as our higher source.

Whether it is Jesus, Buddha, The profit, our uplifted higher selves or something else completely.
Our Faith is sometimes shaken as an abductee wanders through these horrendous events.
Our sense of personal safety is ripped away.
Our sense of privacy is removed.
Sometimes fleeing has no effect.

Let’s be there to help them.
Put our heads together and come up with tools.
Real physical tools.
Or mental weapons that have worked for us while we were in the middle of our experiences.

That is why I have tried to open this Forum.
There are not many of us that are allowed to interact.
So, lets use the time we have to make a difference.

Not throw a fit and take our toys home.

We all have something that we have observed that might give that kernel of truth that an abductee uses as their last hand hold...

We need sharp minds.
We need empathic souls.
We need the engineers.
The Medical Doctors.
The Mental Health Support.
We must really care for each other.
As abductees we have a perspective the normal individual can not grasp.

Terror can be talked about.
Until you watch someone take away any sense of safety you hold.
Then make it perfectly apparent that there is not a dam thing you can do about it.
How can they empathize with our perspective?
I don't care how much training you have.
It’s a leap just to keep breathing sometimes.

Sorry,,,
I got kinda worked up on this one....
I don't have any problem with trolls departing.
I hate to see sharp minds turn away from opposing beliefs.
It is a step into arrogance...
That's what I have come to believe where the abusive abduction experiences root cause originates from.
Logical arrogance of a more evolved being from a realm that might not be fully understood by the poor abductee the object of their focused actions.

William one sac and I worked on a tool that was just coming into focus when he was overtaken by the dark side. When I offered it to Mufon it was poo poo’ed.
If you truly wish to develop the tools…. Throw out a specific problem. Or a simple focus goal and let’s work it out….

- Watcher

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a reply to: majickJimi

If you guys really mean it...

Analog devices are much more resilient than digital devices.
But the inharate accental tank circuits in their design must be accounted for and minimized.
Filters can be used against you.

My biggest mistake in tech was answering a flippantly brazen question on how do we fix the rail gun.
It took me 10 minutes to review the facts and suggest moving the circuit being damaged into the expendable projectal.
Then minimizing the actual rail design.... It worked well....
What positive could be brought to humanity but fixing that thing.
We have to look at what we do and what it can be used for.
I surely could use a hand here...

So when I say analog... My inference is only that it will react with no lag time.
It only function would provide a warning that something was imminent.
If these creatures truly can work outside time or mask themselves by shifting the abductee into a portal or alternate reality. Then the tool would only serve as a warning. The next step must be contemplated or it is for naught.

The clearing your mind thing that I promoted earlier worked well for me.
But it delivered me to conciseness at the feet of a very very annoyed powerful being.
A being that had no problems with making me experience a lot of pain that I might have avoided.
If I had thought out my actions just a little further.

That is where someone else in our group it might have been nice if they pointed out.
What will happen if this works?
A simple question.... BUT I DID NOT THINK OF IT!!!

- Watcher

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a reply to: n120by60w

For those of us new to the forum,are there other ways tools, insights or locations we might consider if we want to be observant, but have not been part of an abduction?

originally posted by: n120by60w
a reply to: majickJimi

If you guys really mean it...

Analog devices are much more resilient than digital devices.
But the inharate accental tank circuits in their design must be accounted for and minimized.
Filters can be used against you.

In my experience (as an Engineer) I've not seen any evidence that analog is more resilient. However, in as much as analog can have effectively infinite states, while digital only 3; it might appear that it is more resilient by having many "error" states that appear to be correct.

Ya know, since I became an Electrical Engineer the usefulness of the ole "tank circuit" has diminished dramatically. Today we don't have so much use for LC networks (even IF the data / address buss in your PC can be expressed as an LC network). In any case the "tank circuit" can be replaced with switches and capacitors leaving nothing "parasitic" to detect remotely.

As for giving an "early warning"; we haven't progressed far enough in research to be able to do this. We haven't even established that an event has occurred; despite the experiences we have had. So we need to start at the beginning and use / adapt our technology to learn / collect usable data about this event.

Thus the use of health / fitness tracking technology, and some improved software. With this we can begin to establish IF an event has occurred, and we have the added benefit that ET can't circumvent it.

If these creatures truly can work outside time or mask themselves by shifting the abductee into a portal or alternate reality. Then the tool would only serve as a warning. The next step must be contemplated or it is for naught.

My thoughts on this: Neither ET, nor, any other entity / object can exist "outside of time". By the very nature of "time"; being "outside" means non-existence.

An alternate reality would be something like the world of "Azeroth"; a virtual reality created by Blizzard Entertainment. When One is "in" Azeroth, they still are very much present in this shared reality. You will find that this holds for ALL alternate realities.

The clearing your mind thing that I promoted earlier worked well for me.
But it delivered me to conciseness at the feet of a very very annoyed powerful being.
A being that had no problems with making me experience a lot of pain that I might have avoided.
If I had thought out my actions just a little further.

Yes, "clearing" One's mind, or the practice of virtually any mental discipline will help.

But, we need to also understand the nature of the abduction experience.

The Human brain operates on what is termed "neurotransmitters", chemicals that transfer information and process protocol within a biological system. ET seems to be exploiting the neurotransmitters that control consciousness (sleep). This can be partially verified with modern (terrestrial) sleep therapies...check out modern sleep pills...

We must also be very careful in our interpretations of the experience; since we are deprived of most of our personal analytical tools, our brains tend to "fill in" the gaps and holes (in real time), and this leads to misinterpretation.

a reply to: Archivalist

You are willing to accept the possibility that unknown beings are examining the populus, but you are not willing to believe the nature of their existence may obfuscate camera recordings or make it impossible altogether. Quite narrow belief systems.

unknown beings as in humans?


If so, then its not narrow to have these beliefs as there is so much more evidence for humans doing the abductions using drugs to experiment on abductees to give them the sensations of aliens doing these things to them.

a reply to: slider1982

There's fantastic cctv footage of a guy poppig up out of nowhere, barfing and starting to walk away.
I can't link because I can't search the Tube but it was in one of the top5's videos.

a reply to: Archivalist

Expound on your conclusion....

I was around and in the service. We thought that Blue book was still active but it was not something well known at that time. 75-80...

We thought we had a pretty good grasp on reality.

I came up with something....

Sometimes God stirs the pot.
With the time men forgot....

I am interested in where you are going with the Blue book thing...
Talk it out...

- Watcher

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a reply to: majickJimi

Please allow me to make mistakes in the wording or spelling here....

I wanted to pick your brain about something that is out of my sand box so to say....

During one of our most horrendous abduction experiences the entire area.
In the home, out side the home, heck US... We all were emitting a blueish light...
Not overly bright it was quite beautiful...

I looked at the yard and the green grass was emitting the same light...
We were emitting the light. The walls were lit internally in the same manor.
I went to work trying to figure out what was causing it and how to describe it....

I found a guy from USSR talking in a technical document about Nuke plant heavy water pools glowing with this light.
I found a picture and sure as S**t! The same blue light....
High energy emissions from hydrogen...
I am not saying this right but will try...

Ka-rill-ian Waves...

Help me out here. I don't want to look like an idiot. I think that it may lead some where.

What are they really called?
What is there cause?

Maybe we could build a detector base looking a the cause of these waves...

I could talk forever on that night and the day following....

We had an orb that was about a foot go threw the room that I had bunkered the family in...

I had mech show up that I was able to subvert for an hour....

I took a staff to an open field and walked a space away and boom flash the field was replaced by an diamond shaped craft.....

Very highly strange night. Lots of trace evidence.

The entire family was awake threw this one...

- Watcher

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Here's a question: Why would a human experiencer have a greater understanding of what was taking place than, for example, an animal being taken to the vet? Is it possible to explain to an animal that there's no reason for panic or fear? Do you feel that taking an animal to the vet is in its best interests, only your own, or both?

One might protest "But the question isn't valid, you're mixing apples and oranges!"

The point is this- animals have nothing but what their genes have given them to cope with their environment; therefore, a very limited set of possible responses to a complex environment (created by technological humans) that's arisen far faster than the timescale natural selection works on.
Humans have been altering certain species' genes (like dogs, for example) for only about 40,000 years at most, and don't explain things to them or expect them to comprehend human reasoning; therefore why should experiencers, or humans as a species,expect an explanation or comprehension?

originally posted by: n120by60w
a reply to: majickJimi

I found a guy from USSR talking in a technical document about Nuke plant heavy water pools glowing with this light.
I found a picture and sure as S**t! The same blue light....
High energy emissions from hydrogen...
I

What the Russian was describing was radioactive (heavy) water. When deuterium is used as a coolant for a reactor it absorbs neutrons, making it somewhat radioactive. What he, and perhaps you saw was the effect of neutron decay interaction with the atmosphere; A kind of coronal effect, if you will.

Ka-rill-ian Waves...

Help me out here. I don't want to look like an idiot. I think that it may lead some where.

What are they really called?
What is there cause?

I have no idea what you are referring to...in 71 years of life I've not heard of such a thing, nor does it seem to search well...regardless which the spelling spins.

.

originally posted by: PEY3DC
Here's a question: Why would a human experiencer have a greater understanding of what was taking place than, for example, an animal being taken to the vet?

Here is a response to you question: Humans have a much greater capacity to grasp the abstract, and to apply abstract rules to the analysis of the unknown. Thus a human should have a far greater understand of all things than so called "lesser animals"".

Oh, and you do understand that Humans are animals as well...

Right?.
.

originally posted by: n120by60w
Our Faith is sometimes shaken as an abductee wanders through these horrendous events.

This is EXACTLY the intended result.

This is also why 'Aliens' bring a religious message primarily.

The bottom line is we have a scenario where the 'aliens' are clearly lying in order to hide their true intentions.

One interesting point is that the founding fathers of UFO research all seem to agree on this one point:

Dr. Pierre Guérin said that UFO's and demons are probably identical.

Dr. Jacques Vallee said they are not physical.

Arthur C. Clarke said that UFOs are not interstellar spaceships.

John Keel described 'aliens' as liars and put-on artists and UFO's as demonological phenomenon.

Dr J. Allen Hynek said it is unlikely that UFO's are from outer space.

Gordon Creighton describes 'aliens' as inveterate liars and deceivers.

Why the desire to change our beliefs? These aliens had a clear teaching agenda. But why was it so important for these aliens to change our traditional spiritual beliefs? We do know that the so-called space brothers have established a pattern of telling us things that have been proven to be demonstrably false. One should then ask, ‘Should they be trusted either?’ After all, if they have lied, should they not be treated as liars?”

Aliens - The Deadly Secret

Watch the Unholy Communion video if you have time.

It completely tipped the scales for me personally.

originally posted by: RevelationGeneration

The Facts of what we know to be true:

1. Aliens are inter-dimensional/Spiritual beings.
2. They do not use interstellar travel.
3. They are malevolent.
4. Their aim is to deceive man-kind.
5. The film industry is helping to prepare us for a "grand deception".
6. "Alien Abductions" stop in the name and authority of Jesus Christ
7. "Alien Abductions" match the abilities of fallen angels as described in the Bible.
8. "Aliens" bring primarily deceptive anti-biblical messages, as is reported by abductees and contactees.

Conclusion:

"extraterrestrials" are intentionally evangelizing people to an alternate spirituality (new age) and are demonic in origin.

John Keel, one of the most respected researchers in this field, noted that “over and over again, witnesses have told me in hushed tones, ‘you know, I don’t think that thing I saw was mechanical at all. I got the distinct impression it was alive.’” thestrongdelusion.com...

The UFO phenomena are manifestations of living beings that are here to deceive mankind. They appear in their UFO form because they wish to change our perception of reality. That they are alive rather than mechanical is not our only conclusion.

thestrongdelusion.com...

“They are messengers of deception” ~ Jacques Vallee

originally posted by: The GUT
...the hypothesis that best fits the UFO phenomenon is, imo, that those little stinking, lying buggers ARE demons.

Well-known UFO researcher John Weldon said, “How creditable is it to think that literally thousands of genuine extraterrestrials would fly millions of light years simply to teach new age philosophy, deny Christianity, and support the occult? And why would the entities actually possess and inhabit people just like demons do if they were really advanced extraterrestrials?”Source

“Alien abduction” experiences have been occurring for centuries; the only difference is that those who experienced them in the past usually recognized them as being something evil from a demonic force. It is only in modern times that large numbers of people in Christian countries have began to refer to the atypical “alien abduction” as something that is not demonic. "

Twelve similarities between Demonic Encounters and “Alien Encounters

• Abduction
• Periods Of Unconsciousness
• Appearing In The Form Of Humans
• Communicating Mentally
• Levitation
• Going Into Trances
• Endowing With Special Powers
• Becoming A Channel Or Mouth-Piece For The Entity
• Physical Suffering
• Raping/Sexually Molesting
• Accompanied By The Smell Of Sulfur
• Appearing At Night In Their Bedroom

"I think that the experiences are so similar that one can conclude that they are in reality one and the same."

Similarities Between UFO Encounters And Demonic Encounters

a reply to: majickJimi
Thanks for the response-
A greater understanding, yes- but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of another form of intelligence being on a level far above our own, and therefore largely incomprehensible to us. Never mind other mammals, look at the intelligence studies done with crows, gray parrots, or octopuses- all have shown themselves to be remarkably more intelligent than originally thought (especially surprising with octopuses, since they have a short lifespan and are not social).

However, none of these animals, or even our closest surviving relatives such as chimpanzees, etc. have the cognitive abilities humans do. (An interesting facet of this observed by researchers in primate cognition is that, even when trained in language, "apes don't ask questions", unlike human toddlers who are full of them almost as soon as they can talk!)

My point is this: does it make more sense to assume human cognition is the plateau in possible intelligence, or to assume that there's probably a few more rungs above us in the ladder, so to speak? I'm betting on the latter, and I'm also betting that any such existing intelligence would be capable of managing our perceptions of its existence fairly handily.

Hopefully, it's fairly clear I "do understand that Humans are animals as well"; one of my favorite quotes is from Mark Twain- "Man is the only animal that blushes- or needs to."

originally posted by: Murgatroid

The bottom line is we have a scenario where the 'aliens' are clearly lying in order to hide their true intentions.

One interesting point is that the founding fathers of UFO research all seem to agree on this one point:

Dr. Pierre Guérin said that UFO's and demons are probably identical.

Dr. Jacques Vallee said they are not physical.

Arthur C. Clarke said that UFOs are not interstellar spaceships.

John Keel described 'aliens' as liars and put-on artists and UFO's as demonological phenomenon.

Dr J. Allen Hynek said it is unlikely that UFO's are from outer space.

Gordon Creighton describes 'aliens' as inveterate liars and deceivers.

Wow! One can only wonder HOW so many August men can be so very wrong.

The Facts of what we know to be true:

1. Aliens are inter-dimensional/Spiritual beings.
2. They do not use interstellar travel.
3. They are malevolent.
4. Their aim is to deceive man-kind.
5. The film industry is helping to prepare us for a "grand deception".
6. "Alien Abductions" stop in the name and authority of Jesus Christ
7. "Alien Abductions" match the abilities of fallen angels as described in the Bible.
8. "Aliens" bring primarily deceptive anti-biblical messages, as is reported by abductees and contactees.

Conclusion:

"extraterrestrials" are intentionally evangelizing people to an alternate spirituality (new age) and are demonic in origin.

1. Aliens, or more properly Extraterrestrials, are physical beings, equal to Terrestrial Humans (Humans may come from other worlds as well). They are very much like Terrestrials in that they have the same basic needs, fears, desires, emotions, etc. The ONLY thing they have that Terrestrials don't is more time asking questions, and developing.

2. Yes, actually the ET's visiting Earth do in fact use interstellar travel. The ability to do so is almost a reality right now here on Earth. Science is developing methods, technologies that will allow for interstellar travel. I'm 71 and have a bad heart, I'll likely be gone in less than 15 years, and I think I will just miss the announcement that a functional warp drive has been developed. So, with just 30 - 100 years head start, it is perfectly plausible for any intelligent species to have interstellar travel.

3. Not all are malevolent, most are indifferent and all would study Earth first.

4. No. The goal is to understand. The Human ability to use the imagination to fill in the "blanks" leads to this kind of thinking (it also leads to thinking ET is malevolent). This all too common trait is something that must be fought so that we can arrive at truth.

5. lol

6. The name and/or authority of Jesus means nothing to ET. And some ET's have no spiritual component (their loss).

7. Indeed.

8. Another misconception on the part of Terrestrial Humans...Extraterrestrials have no message.

Something that probably should be known and remembered here: Extraterrestrial abduction isn't any different than T.Humans "darting a Wolf" in the wild so that they can study the animal and its species.

originally posted by: PEY3DC
a reply to: majickJimi
However, none of these animals, or even our closest surviving relatives such as chimpanzees, etc. have the cognitive abilities humans do. (An interesting facet of this observed by researchers in primate cognition is that, even when trained in language, "apes don't ask questions", unlike human toddlers who are full of them almost as soon as they can talk!)

Interesting! I did not know that Apes didn't ask questions. Perhaps that is another important difference; the desire to understand.

My point is this: does it make more sense to assume human cognition is the plateau in possible intelligence, or to assume that there's probably a few more rungs above us in the ladder, so to speak? I'm betting on the latter, and I'm also betting that any such existing intelligence would be capable of managing our perceptions of its existence fairly handily.

Here is where I have some issue with this line of thinking. IF ET were only 100's of years more developed (as differentiated from evolved), he might seem more "god-like" than a being that is no more evolved or intelligent that a typical Terrestrial Human when he is neither more evolved or intelligent. However, we should probably leave that probability open at least till we know more.

originally posted by: majickJimi
lol..

Quite the argument you have there, great sources too...

Guess this means I'll now have to go back and rethink everything Iv'e learned.

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: majickJimi
lol..

Quite the argument you have there, great sources too...

Guess this means I'll now have to go back and rethink everything Iv'e learned.

Sources, that's rich. We are discussing the abduction experience. "Experience" being the key. It is this very experience that IS our source.

But hey, if you would like some raw data that may support the idea of abduction; give me a few weeks to collect and record. You have anything like this? (my data is sleep and activity data collected by a wrist band health monitor)

Remember what I said about the Human mind filling in the blanks? Perhaps what you have learned isn't quite what reality is...perhaps my view is not very accurate. It is difficult to say so, we kind of have to use our own intelligence, experience, logic, and common sense.

originally posted by: majickJimi

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: majickJimi
lol..

Remember what I said about the Human mind filling in the blanks? Perhaps what you have learned isn't quite what reality is...perhaps my view is not very accurate. It is difficult to say so, we kind of have to use our own intelligence, experience, logic, and common sense.

When we perceive a object our scenes can fill in the blanks...
I saw a thread here at ATS that spoke an gave good simple visual examples.
Just looking at them showed you that your own mind was messing with your perception.
It was trying to make sense out of something that would not fit in it's box of tools...

I once viewed a tunnel like object that I was moving threw.
I swear to god it was made out of perfectly scaled 4*8 sheets of flat material.
How can a round tunnel be made from rectangular panels.
I was not perciveing something right.
Yet it was clear as a 35 mil picture in perfect focus...
The tube tapered away from me with what I would call distance yet the size never got smaller as the tube got smaller...
Impossible when viewed in our 3D world.....

- Watcher

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edit on 5/5/2018 by n120by60w because: (no reason given)

edit on 5/5/2018 by n120by60w because: (no reason given)

a reply to: majickJimi

Hello Sir,

You seem to speak with some authority. I would like to learn more. Whether it be data, or personal experiences.

originally posted by: n120by60w
a reply to: majickJimi

Please allow me to make mistakes in the wording or spelling here....

I wanted to pick your brain about something that is out of my sand box so to say....

During one of our most horrendous abduction experiences the entire area.
In the home, out side the home, heck US... We all were emitting a blueish light...
Not overly bright it was quite beautiful...

I looked at the yard and the green grass was emitting the same light...
We were emitting the light. The walls were lit internally in the same manor.
I went to work trying to figure out what was causing it and how to describe it....

I found a guy from USSR talking in a technical document about Nuke plant heavy water pools glowing with this light.
I found a picture and sure as S**t! The same blue light....
High energy emissions from hydrogen...
I am not saying this right but will try...

Ka-rill-ian Waves...

Help me out here. I don't want to look like an idiot. I think that it may lead some where.

What are they really called?
What is there cause?

Maybe we could build a detector base looking a the cause of these waves...

Found it!!!!

I was not even close...

Look under Wikipedia ----- Cherenkov Radiation.....

"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation"

The first picture listed.... from the Advanced Test Reactor....

Between the fan blades in the picture.
This was the color of almost everything...
Kinda like a black and white picture with only lighter and darker shades.


This color offset a great deal by "green grass" and dark red "plaid clothing" that was emitting a darker blue like in the second picture from the Reed Research Reactor.... It was closer to the color of the outer edge of the second picture example.

It was emanated from the actual object that would have normally been lit externally by a lamp or something else...
The white walls, the blinds, our clothing, us ..... everything with the exception of a sodium mercury lamp about 50 yards down the road that lit the pavement from above mounted to a power pole. The road within 20 to 30 yards was a dark blue of the same tint of the first example. Under the sodium lamp the road was normal blacktop pavement color.... Maybe due to the distance from the families location...

I brought this up because,
I as a layman in this subject wondered if some kind of external field was exciting the hydrogen in us and our surroundings?

Was it a dangerous side effect that should be avoided for the families sake?
(Should we have endeavored to withdraw? We had hunkered down to protect the kids.)

We spoke of sensing devices that might be used for detection...
Maybe we look for or target the source of the causation of these waves???


- Watcher

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