U.S. China Trade War Kicks Up Another Notch - What Happened To FREE MARKET Capitalism.?

Friday, April 6, 2018

I don't know how bad this is on a scale of 1 to 10, but the Trade-Tariff threats exchanged between the U.S. and China have ratcheted up another notch today.

China’s commerce ministry on Friday said it would fight the U.S. at “any cost” after President Donald Trump threatened to impose tariffs on an additional $100 billion in Chinese imports.

Trump asked the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) to consider lobbing additional tariffs against China in light of the country’s “illicit trade practices” that have “destroyed thousands of American factories and millions of American jobs.”

On Tuesday the Trump administration announced a tariff on 1,300 products from China, including medical, aerospace and information technology accounting for nearly $50 billion in annual imports.

Prior to that, additional tariffs were placed on Chinese steel and aluminum.

The Chinese government fired back with $3 billion in tariffs of its own, targeting American goods.

Source: www.foxnews.com...

Here is what I don't understand.. In a free-market society, consumers buy what they want. If it costs less, and gets the job done, that's the product we purchase.

If that more appealing product comes from China, Viet Nam, Canada, or wherever.. we don't care. That's what global free-market capitalism is all about.

So why punish another country because they produce low priced products that consumers, businesses, and factories in America CHOOSE to purchase? The U.S. government charging the Chinese (or anyone) a penalty for supplying what Americans are asking for, will raise the cost of that product for Americans, which is cruel.

Reminds me of the of that horrible ObamaCare fine/tax for not having government-approved health insurance. The U.S. government says, "Do it our way, or pay a big $$$ penalty!"

U.S. companies can do what's necessary internally, to produce the same product at an even lower cost, if they want a larger U.S. market share. Right?

-CareWeMust

a reply to: carewemust

because then your supporting slave labor.

also china gov subsidizes products to make the prices even lower, all designed to destroy our free market.

free market does need some regulation to protect against things like that.

originally posted by: carewemust


Here is what I don't understand.. In a free-market society, consumers buy what they want. If it costs less, and gets the job done, that's the product we purchase.

If that more appealing product comes from China, Viet Nam, Canada, or wherever.. we don't care. That's what global free-market capitalism is all about.

So why punish another country because they produce low priced products that consumers, businesses, and factories in America CHOOSE to purchase?

Why?

Because the Chinese does not play by free market rules

- they heavily regulate and subsidence their industry, they artificially peg the Renminbi to the dollar at a value decided by the Chinese state, not by the market, and the Chinese state also reign supreme in deciding who gets to invest, in what they get to invest as well as how they get to do it.

The U.S. government says, "Do it our way, or pay a big $$$ penalty!"

Isn't that what the president is saying to China?

originally posted by: NobodiesNormal
a reply to: carewemust

because then your supporting slave labor.

also china gov subsidizes products to make the prices even lower, all designed to destroy our free market.

free market does need some regulation to protect against things like that.

Can you provide any more insights on those 2 claims, slave labor and subsidies by China.

The Trump ethos: attempt to do something good, but then listen to yes-men and negate the potential good move.


.......
China hold around $1.17 trillion of Treasuries as of the end of January, making it the largest of America's foreign creditors and the No. 2 overall owner of U.S. government bonds after the Federal Reserve. Any move by China to chop its Treasury portfolio could inflict significant harm on U.S.


China can basically cripple the US and it's economy. I wish Trump would stop trying to please his camp when these situations arise... ffs

originally posted by: odzeandennz

originally posted by: NobodiesNormal
a reply to: carewemust

because then your supporting slave labor.

also china gov subsidizes products to make the prices even lower, all designed to destroy our free market.

free market does need some regulation to protect against things like that.

Can you provide any more insights on those 2 claims, slave labor and subsidies by China.

The Trump ethos: attempt to do something good, but then listen to yes-men and negate the potential good move.


.......
China hold around $1.17 trillion of Treasuries as of the end of January, making it the largest of America's foreign creditors and the No. 2 overall owner of U.S. government bonds after the Federal Reserve. Any move by China to chop its Treasury portfolio could inflict significant harm on U.S.


China can basically cripple the US and it's economy. I wish Trump would stop trying to please his camp when these situations arise... ffs

Wrong thats a huge myth if China stopped buying bonds wouldn't effect the US bonds would still be sold. Now as for China its called forced labor. It is a form of slavery started in the middle ages the west has irradiated the practice. China on the other hand has not.

thediplomat.com...


As for China subsidising its industries heres a report

www.commerce.gov...

a reply to: NobodiesNormal


If we feel that China is attempting to destroy our free-market, wouldn't it be prudent to simply ban all Chinese goods that are priced artificially low?

a reply to: DupontDeux

If China is "ripping us off" to the tune of $400 billion @ year, as the President states, let's quit doing business with them. If your mechanic is charging too much, get another one. Right?

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire

The U.S. government says, "Do it our way, or pay a big $$$ penalty!"

Isn't that what the president is saying to China?

Yes.. The President is saying to China, raise your prices, or we'll penalize you for sending things here that are too cheap. Is that how you read it?

a reply to: odzeandennz

Thanks for those eye-opening statistics! It looks like we also owe $1.1 Trillion to Japan, and $2.6 Trillion to "other" nations.

Source: www.businessinsider.com...

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire

The U.S. government says, "Do it our way, or pay a big $$$ penalty!"

Isn't that what the president is saying to China?

Yes.. The President is saying to China, raise your prices, or we'll penalize you for sending things here that are too cheap. Is that how you read it?

Heres why look at the numbers.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: carewemust
Friday, April 6, 2018

I don't know how bad this is on a scale of 1 to 10, but the Trade-Tariff threats exchanged between the U.S. and China have ratcheted up another notch today.

China’s commerce ministry on Friday said it would fight the U.S. at “any cost” after President Donald Trump threatened to impose tariffs on an additional $100 billion in Chinese imports.

Trump asked the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) to consider lobbing additional tariffs against China in light of the country’s “illicit trade practices” that have “destroyed thousands of American factories and millions of American jobs.”

On Tuesday the Trump administration announced a tariff on 1,300 products from China, including medical, aerospace and information technology accounting for nearly $50 billion in annual imports.

Prior to that, additional tariffs were placed on Chinese steel and aluminum.

The Chinese government fired back with $3 billion in tariffs of its own, targeting American goods.

Source: www.foxnews.com...

Here is what I don't understand.. In a free-market society, consumers buy what they want. If it costs less, and gets the job done, that's the product we purchase.

If that more appealing product comes from China, Viet Nam, Canada, or wherever.. we don't care. That's what global free-market capitalism is all about.

So why punish another country because they produce low priced products that consumers, businesses, and factories in America CHOOSE to purchase? The U.S. government charging the Chinese (or anyone) a penalty for supplying what Americans are asking for, will raise the cost of that product for Americans, which is cruel.

Reminds me of the of that horrible ObamaCare fine/tax for not having government-approved health insurance. The U.S. government says, "Do it our way, or pay a big $$$ penalty!"

U.S. companies can do what's necessary internally, to produce the same product at an even lower cost, if they want a larger U.S. market share. Right?

-CareWeMust

For us older folks here, us up there in the late 60's , 70's and more, we remember cars from Japan back in 1978 only cost 2200 USD for a new Toyota Corolla. American cars were somewhat higher, but the quality was there also. These days for example, tennis shoes coming out of China cost us about 10 dollars, them same shoes made in Japan back in the late 60's were only about 1.99 USD. Japan wised up and started making quality stuff for "real" exports. No difference really in prices these days because, well, one is only buying into the Japanese name, sad thing is hardly anything is made in Japan these days. I know, I shop here daily. And that includes all these frozen vegetables we buy in the store.
China, currently is many areas produce stuff cheap because of govt. owned factories. Americans can not compete with such imports from China.
If the the US politicians really are patriotic toward the American people (which they are not) they would ban govt. imports instead of creating tariffs. It really is all a joke. I see it here daily, raise taxes, still the consumer pays over priced Chinese crap. Sad I tell ya. Politicians are corrupt and only care about the "buck in their pocket" and getting re-elected off of "fear" , but we are here to help you . A line of BS all the way.
Trump , by wanting to raise tariffs is missing the whole point about "make American work again". You can only do this by banning goods from other countries. In case you folks don't know it, that is what makes a country strong. Its called "PROTECTIONISM" and that means "common sense" which in case you haven't notice, its disappearing very fast these days.

a reply to: carewemust

purveyors of the capitalist system scream free markets when it suits them.

perveyors of the capitalist system scream tariff protection when it suits them.

Of greater concern here is that the US started this pop up of tarrif protection so whats happening within the US economy that suddenly tariff protection is suddenly required?

Is the US trying to plug holes in the dam wall of the long predicted global melt down.

Australia passed bank bail in laws in recent weeks. Does anyone really think they would do this after a melt down? As I see it, they are. By passing these laws, telling us that one is going to happen and in the not too distant future either.

By passing these bank bail in laws, they know at least one or two banks at least, must be allowed to loot the bank accounts of their customers in order for the banks to save themselves.

But then again, perhaps though they were just obeying orders of the government above government by passing these bail in laws.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire

The U.S. government says, "Do it our way, or pay a big $$$ penalty!"

Isn't that what the president is saying to China?

Yes.. The President is saying to China, raise your prices, or we'll penalize you for sending things here that are too cheap. Is that how you read it?

Heres why look at the numbers.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Thankyou for that comprehensive chart. It looks like China really ramped up their steel production in 2007. A big global demand for their product must have materialized around that time.

a reply to: carewemust

Globalism and free market capitalism can never work.
Why? Because conditions in different countries create an unfair economic advantage. Why should China have a pricing advantage just because they treat their people like slaves?
Add in that tariffs are already uneven. There was no 'free' trade to begin with.
Countries like China have been screwing the world over, stealing ideas, using near slave labour and undercutting markets. Corporations are delighted - they can use near slave labour to make even more money and in the process screw over the countries where they actually built their companies.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: NobodiesNormal


If we feel that China is attempting to destroy our free-market, wouldn't it be prudent to simply ban all Chinese goods that are priced artificially low?

How about we just tax them to make the prices in our market less artificial. We'll call it something catchy like... "Tariffs".

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire

The U.S. government says, "Do it our way, or pay a big $$$ penalty!"

Isn't that what the president is saying to China?

Yes.. The President is saying to China, raise your prices, or we'll penalize you for sending things here that are too cheap. Is that how you read it?

Heres why look at the numbers.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Thankyou for that comprehensive chart. It looks like China really ramped up their steel production in 2007. A big global demand for their product must have materialized around that time.

A big global demand for their PRICE materialised at that time, from companies who don't care about quality or customers, only profit.

Rip off the bandaid now.
Another 20 years at this rate, we won't have a country.

Politicians took payoffs to allow the trade policies that allowed the corporations to offshore manufacturing to the cheapest bidders, while importing garbage and not only keeping, but inflating markups, getting filthy rich, while killing our factories and small business in one move.

Screw these parasitic, sociopathic, communist, insect people.
They are honored in business for lying and espionage.

Arrest the politicians who sold out our country now.

The Chineese need to overthrow their government and get on board with competetive wages if they are to be
allowed to do business with the US, or go take down another country.

I'm done being Walmarted to death. I'm done watching small businesses die.

This trade bs needs changed, or we need a gov that will actually protect us.

If they change policies and China has a problem with us maintaining our country, they need glassed.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire

The U.S. government says, "Do it our way, or pay a big $$$ penalty!"

Isn't that what the president is saying to China?

Yes.. The President is saying to China, raise your prices, or we'll penalize you for sending things here that are too cheap. Is that how you read it?

No, he is saying, open your own market if you want free access to ours.
China does not want that because they know that even though they produce cheap crap, eventually consumers will realise it is a false economy. Spend twice as much on better quality and have something last 3 times as long is a better consumer proposition.