Democracy at its root is a leftist ideology

The origin of the term "left" and "right" as it correlates to politics comes from the French legislature during their revolution in the late 1700s. Those supporting the absolute rule of the monarch sat furthest to the right, and those supported power of the people sat to to the left. France went from a Kingdom to a Republic after their revolution.

If you look at the political spectrum in this light, you would say that the more power becomes centralized, the more right wing it is. An Oligarchy (power maintained by a small amount of the ultra wealthy) is more left wing than a dictatorship or a king, and conversely, communism and anarchy are more left wing than democracy.

These delineations for the most part cover economic policy but can create confusion when we discuss social policies of the left and right as they can differ greatly depending on the country we are looking at. For instance, in England the right supports gay marriage, where here in the US the right is opposed to it.

I bring this up for 2 reason: one because this should illustrate that both the left and right wing have more to gain by finding common ground than we benefit from further political divisions. That is unless you prefer to live under a dictatorship. And two, because of what I believe is something of a growing contradiction in todays political discourse. This centers mainly around taxes, political influence and equality. Its no secret that over the last several decades wealth inequality has grown to previously unknown levels, with the most recent figures showing the richest 1% owning more than the bottom 90% combined. The bottom 90% are seeing their wages drop while the richest are taking home more than ever before.

This has happened for a variety of reasons, some of which are conservative leaning tax policy, Reagan provided big tax cuts to the most wealthy and this endeared him to conservatives of all financial classes. Both Bushes also tried their best to tax the wealthiest among us, including corporate tax loopholes, lower than historic averages. Trump has continued this approach to taxation.

There is plenty of blame on the left too, Bill Clinton's NAFTA deal sent tons of jobs overseas and help destroy manufacturing in the US, this also allowed multi national corporations to save a ton of money with cheap labor and gave the American public really cheap stuff from China. For the most part this just made the rich richer and everyone got hooked on super cheap goods.

The Citizens United ruling which allowed massive amounts of corporate money to flow in to politics also didn't help lessen wealth disparity. Its not a surprise that people for the most part vote for what benefits them, and with corporations essentially having the power to influence politics in this less restrained way, it seems to have further tipped the balance of power to favor those with the money.

Heres where I feel there is come confusion within the conservative political base: While I totally respect and support the idea that people need to lift themselves up by the bootstraps (thats physically impossible by the way) and not be lazy, further consolidation of wealth at the top of the financial pyramid is not good for our democracy. The massive influence that wealth has on our political system is creating an oligarchy or a fascist corporatocracy.

If you take in to consideration that a large portion of the Republican voting base does not take home a CEOs salary/200X the average workers pay, why would less than wealthy Republicans support candidates who give out tax breaks to the wealthy and provide corporate subsidies? I know its been a hot buzz word to call this socialism, (which I assume is corporate propaganda) but consider the alternative: More power in fewer hands and a further distancing from a true democracy.

We need big money out of politics. There was $6.5 BILLION spent on the presidential and congressional campaigns in 2016. Does that seem insane to anyone else?

Also, Citizens United was built on a lie: www.theatlantic.com...

Good thread, but as a minor correction the right didn't really support gay marriage in the UK. More Conservative MPs voted against it than in voted in favour.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Good thread, but as a minor correction the right didn't really support gay marriage in the UK. More Conservative MPs voted against it than in voted in favour.

my bad, I read it online and assumed it to be true, lol

originally posted by: Harpua

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Good thread, but as a minor correction the right didn't really support gay marriage in the UK. More Conservative MPs voted against it than in voted in favour.

my bad, I read it online and assumed it to be true, lol

It's part true in that gay marriage was passed under a Conservative government, but only against opposition from most his party. Got through with support from the broadly left wing opposition.

One of the few decent things Cameron did.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Interesting. I don't know a ton about British government, but what I have seen I liked... they don't pull any punches.

a reply to: Harpua

A) I think your dead on, but would add that the dictionary definition of right and left has a deeper definition.

Left = ignore the traditions of the past in favor of big social change..

Right = uphold the traditions of the past instead of big social change..


The reason it was concerning monachies is because the monarchy was the “tradition” of the past..

That is why all big changes listed by conservatives are couched in returning to some bygone era..aka make America great AGAIN”.. not in some new way..



B) I think your criticism of the lefts failures are all instances of CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS , pushing conservative policies..


That doesn’t make that the leftwing policy, just because it was backed by a politician on the left..

If ted Cruz passes a pro choice bill. That doesn’t make pro choice the right wing policy.. it means Cruz instituted a left wing policy..


C) because of the change vs. tradition dynamic the right always loses..

That doesn’t mean every left wing policy is a good idea, but it does mean that all the good ideas will come from the left wing.. because they are the only ones pushing new policies.. and progress always wins in the end.

a reply to: JoshuaCox


Good post, I agree with what you're saying and thanks for helping clarify my point.

Democracy at its root is a leftist ideology

Of course it is, which is why al the right wingers on this forum are always claiming that our country isn't a democracy, and why they like fascism and dictatorship so much.

a reply to: CB328

and maybe why they won't step in to this thread?

Interesting chart that might be accurate ....



Maybe the "Philosophies" are pointless and are just control devices 😎

a reply to: Harpua

Democracy has been around since ancient Greece, leftism since around the 1800s. Democracy is not a leftist ideology.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

This doesn't shift the basic premise in the slightest though. We either want a more democratically ran government or we opt for giving up the power. Currently we are having the power taken away from us by oligarchs on both sides of the political spectrum.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Harpua

Democracy has been around since ancient Greece, leftism since around the 1800s. Democracy is not a leftist ideology.

The term dates from the 1700s. The ideas go much further back.

a reply to: ScepticScot
NR

originally posted by: Harpua
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

This doesn't shift the basic premise in the slightest though. We either want a more democratically ran government or we opt for giving up the power. Currently we are having the power taken away from us by oligarchs on both sides of the political spectrum.

I’m just pointing out that democracy is not at its root a leftist ideology. It’s a much older, more ancient principle, that precedes leftist thought and politics by millennia.

I've always said, what's wrong with leftist ideology? or Right wing ideology? At it's core...not the media/facebook stereotype.

What is a left ideology? Helping people/safety nets? What is conservative ideology? smaller government?

You can actually have both. Seriously.

I mean we have it now. Except our Democrat and Republican party in the US has basterdized the concepts and all we see is the stereotype. When we think of leftist ideology we go straight to Venuzuala and when we think of conservative ideology we think of old white bankers smoking cigars with confederate flags flapping behind them. We need to get away from teh stereotypes and our two party system that basterdizes the concepts of left and right wing ideology.

Those supporting the absolute rule of the monarch sat furthest to the right, and those supported power of the people sat to to the left.

Let's put that in to context to see if that holds true.

Power to the people would mean NO GUN CONTROL.

But it is LEFTISTS pushing power be taken away from the people.

a reply to: CB328

Of course it is, which is why al the right wingers on this forum are always claiming that our country isn't a democracy, and why they like fascism and dictatorship so much.

Because it isn't.

Article 4 Section 4.

The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government,

www.law.cornell.edu...

The different between democracy and republic is.

A GD piece of paper that flips the middle finger to mob rule aka 'democracy'.

No matter what the majority thinks.

The republic guaranteed INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: CB328

Of course it is, which is why al the right wingers on this forum are always claiming that our country isn't a democracy, and why they like fascism and dictatorship so much.

Because it isn't.

Article 4 Section 4.

The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government,

www.law.cornell.edu...

The different between democracy and republic is.

A GD piece of paper that flips the middle finger to mob rule aka 'democracy'.

No matter what the majority thinks.

The republic guaranteed INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.

It's a democratic republic. Being a Republic isn't anything to do with the guarantee of INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Try again.

Constitutional Republic.

simple.wikipedia.org...