Operation Beluga the plan to discredit Putin.

Is Russia standing against liberalism and supporting good things? You know, like Christianity and firearm rights? Do they oppose socialists/commies?

I think I see the problem here too

By all rights, the UK has failed to produce ANY evidence linking Russia to the poisoning. In fact, Russia is very unlikely to have chosen that specific nerve agent. Why not use VX/Sarin which is ubiquitous in the world?

Socialist UK's evidence against Russia is as weak as the US socialists' evidence RE: DNC "hack" - nonexistant. To say again: NO EVIDENCE

Where is all the evidence?

Can't these fools see we're done taking their "good word" for anything? They've lost all credibility

AFAIC, Russia is absolutely innocent until these clowns start producing evidence. And the Putin hate is laughable, because these same socialists ignore socialist attrocities in NK, Venezuela, etc. Socialist Obama even cried for poor wittle Castro when he kicked off (I celebrated Castros death, personally)

Just as I'd celebrate the death of Kim Jongun or Maduro or any other socialist criminal.

a reply to: JBurns


Evidence will be forthcoming (1) once the complex Police investigation is complete and (2) from the OPCW shortly.

So, on no "evidence" you are certain that Russia is "absolutely innocent". Do you see the irony?

a reply to: JBurns

Can't these fools see we're done taking their "good word" for anything? They've lost all credibility

Sure, they must be done taking there good word for it, thats why America expelled 60 Russian diplomats on the evidence that the British intelligent services must of shared.

It's so funny to see someone with an American flag as an avatar standing up for a foreign leader that wants to see your country fail.

a reply to: anonentity

because nobody in Britain are swallowing it

I don't think that actually matters... i think they just will keep saying it and acting like it's true, fact and public opinion be damned... all they have to do on the American side is have the MSM blast how scary it is and how everyone in the UK thinks it was Putin... we will be ready for war in no time!

originally posted by: smkymcnugget420
a reply to: anonentity

because nobody in Britain are swallowing it

I don't think that actually matters... i think they just will keep saying it and acting like it's true, fact and public opinion be damned... all they have to do on the American side is have the MSM blast how scary it is and how everyone in the UK thinks it was Putin... we will be ready for war in no time!

And yet this is exactly what Russia is doing!! Keep saying and publicising conspiracy theory's, stating how the west is against poor little Russia. Have not seen any of the STATE run media??

“There have been no updates on the Skirpal’s conditions”

www.independent.co.uk...

Posted just hours ago.

Yulia Skripal is no longer in a critical condition and is “improving rapidly” following a nerve agent attack in Salisbury.

Doctors said her father, Sergei Skripal, remains in a critical but stable condition as the police investigation into the attempted assassination continues to widen

a reply to: oldcarpy

When you ACCUSE someone of something, YOU have to PROVE it. Otherwise, they're "innocent" until that proof is forthcoming.

See the irony? May isn't known for her intelligence, however. Seems more like a lefty foaming at the mouth to attack every nation that stands against the scourge of socialist democracies.

Constitutional Republicanism is the only way forward.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: oldcarpy

When you ACCUSE someone of something, YOU have to PROVE it. Otherwise, they're "innocent" until that proof is forthcoming.

See the irony? May isn't known for her intelligence, however. Seems more like a lefty foaming at the mouth to attack every nation that stands against the scourge of socialist democracies.

Constitutional Republicanism is the only way forward.

She's a conservative not labour or a liberal democrat, that's right wing to you Americans. You need to read up more about democracies other than Americas idea or Russian dictators!!

Your democracy is still in its infancy compared to this side of the pond, it's like a little angry child, all shouty and stamping it's feet, a lot like some of it's patriots!!
Also if the intelligent services have an idea on who and how this was done to you think they will share it with everyone before the investigation is completed/finished?

a reply to: Kurokage

other than America idea

Why would I want to do that? I live in the greatest country on Earth, and would rather take notes from the Constitution than from socialist UK or any other socialist nation. The US Constitution is the single most intelligent and perfect document on Earth as well. Sadly many try to bastardize its period-specific language to infringe on unalienable rights. Unsuccessfully, might I add.

Any country that allows any percentage of its Citizenry to infringe on Constitutional unalienable rights is not a Constitutional Republic.

It is equally BS that socialists still try to equate the Russian Federation with the old communist Soviet Union. Not even close. And despite the fact Putin is an autocratic #### stain, at least his country enjoys actual freedoms and is proud of the Russian culture.

For whatever reason, though, being proud of your culture (and not wanting other cultures to usurp it) is considered bad by most of the alt-far left.

Just like nationalism has been bastardized by these same folks to mean something it does not. Loving your country and being proud of it is something you're supposed to do. And if that makes me a nationalist, then that's one more label I'll wear proudly.

a reply to: Kurokage

You mean BBC?

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Kurokage

You mean BBC?

It's far better than any American biased news media like Fox or CNN or any of the others.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Kurokage

other than America idea

Why would I want to do that? I live in the greatest country on Earth, and would rather take notes from the Constitution than from socialist UK or any other socialist nation. The US Constitution is the single most intelligent and perfect document on Earth as well. Sadly many try to bastardize its period-specific language to infringe on unalienable rights. Unsuccessfully, might I add.

Because learning about other cultures also improves knowledge of your own, and America is far from being the greatest country on Earth it's a joke!!
You seem blinded by your own patriotism and caught up by Russian propaganda!!

a reply to: anonentity

Obviously propaganda trolling what you do here. "Putin is such a good guy and innocent, is what I read between the lines of your OP. That's bs. With an agenda.
Putin crossed lines more than once. The real question is why Russia and not Turkey, Saudi Arabia kick them out of NATO UN like you do now with Russia, they're all doing the same thing as Russia in a way.
That's what we're told, Putin violated human rights on many occasions.
But that's true for many. Including the US.
Kick them all out, stop talking if that's in your opinion the only solution.
So why Russia, why now? Is the trade war at the same time with China coincidence?
There is a huge portion of stuff going on we're not told # about.

a reply to: JBurns

When you ACCUSE someone of something, YOU have to PROVE it. Otherwise, they're "innocent" until that proof is forthcoming.

I think this is a excellent point but only that I think it is being framed in the wrong way.

You are absolutely correct, to say this was Russia you would need to prove it was Russia, ideally in a court of law. Just now I would argue that the case against Russia is very strong but that does not equate to proof of it. I think we will only really ever get the proof in years to come after some inquest into the events much in the same way as what happened after litvenenko. All of these same questions and accusations were flying around back in 2006 when poor Sasha drank a cup of Russian tea, its not until the full investigation is complete and the evidence heard in a court that we can say yes this was Russia. Until then all we can reasonably say is that Russia is the prime suspect but that does not prove it was them only that it is most likely it was them. As such we must keep a open mind that it could have been another state or individual(s) who where behind this attack.

Now despite saying that the same is true of the other side of this argument. If you want to peddle the idea that Russia is innocent then present a reasonable alternative. Present a alternative series of events that can explain what happened, just asking questions does not takeaway form the fact that Russia are still the prime suspects nor do asking "what about?".

Lastly I would again say that this is a ongoing police/intelligence investigation that is massively complex and some of the details may never be in the public. This could come down to who do you trust more, the Russian government or the British government, I personally trust neither but if it comes down to picking who I trust more between the two of them the UK wins every time. I cannot trust a thing that comes out of a Russian politicians mouth or the Russian state owned media.

Even without any evidence we can leverage Occam's Razor to help direct the most likely explanation:

In this case, war with Russia is a farcical concept (primarily for the reason that any war between 2 nuclear super powers ends most of the life on the planet). So the US has little reason to want to set up Russia as some 'patsy' so they can wage war with them.

Putin, on the other hand, has a history of killing dissidents and ex-spies who've defected. Additionally, there would be no reason for Russia to really hide this fact, as such a blatant action is like a calling card to the international community that Russia can do what it wants, to whomever it wants, and nobody can do a thing about it. This reinforces the hegemonic view of Russia Putin wishes to project (one of absolute power and control).

Lastly, since Russia has been waging propaganda campaigns in various countries (obviously USA included), its another chess-piece that can be leveraged to divide the citizens through disagreement (as is the case even here), which further reinforces Putin's prerogative of making Russia stronger by making the USA (and other powerful nations) weaker.

a reply to: Kurokage

the burden of proof lies with the accuser... so far no proof has been forthcoming. All Russia has been saying the whole time is "prove it".

I mean FFS the lab at Porton down can't even confirm it was actually Novichok

a reply to: Kurokage

You seem blinded by your own patriotism

Not at all. My allegiance begins and ends with the Constitution of the United States of America. Regardless of what government is currently installed. Just so happens that I am quite fond of our present Administration, but the government as a whole I feel is essential a waste of space (bloated bureaucracy, terribly inefficient)

ussian propaganda!!

As opposed to British propaganda? Or Chinese propaganda? Or even American propaganda? You act as though Russia is the only nation engaging in information warfare or disinformation.

Because learning about other cultures also improves knowledge of your own

Yes, agreed. And I love other cultures. Interested in them too. But I also love my OWN culture. Yet more people are interested in ignoring the preface of that statement and moving right on to the "Oh boy, he loves his own culture. Evil!"

Just curious, but who actually believes Russia would be dumb enough to use a nerve agent with such an obvious origin & "scary" Russian sounding name?

Russia uses radioactive substances for their assassinations, typically. And even if they did go with a nerve agent, they'd absolutely choose a widely available agent like VX or Sarin (since everybody and their mother has some)

The fact some can't see what a blatant false flag this is...

Just like the Brexit anti-Russia narrative. Just like the DNC anti-Russia narrative. It is clear the alt-far extremist left is intent on attacking Russia. That is all the reason I need to be skeptical and DEMAND EVIDENCE. Evidence the UK likely will not produce, in accordance with existing treaties and International norms.

....and May is not a conservative. Your nation's highly oppressive anti-gun/anti-free speech/anti-privacy laws tell me you have no serious population of conservatives/libertarians. And if she really is labeled as a conservative, then she needs to re-read the book on conservatism or most importantly libertarianism. Since sacrificing essential freedom for BS "safety" is 100% a liberal/socialist thing, I'd love to see the far-right come to power in the UK as well as Germany, France and other pseudo-free-states that gave up their sovereignty for membership to the weak & ineffective EU.

originally posted by: JBurns
Just curious, but who actually believes Russia would be dumb enough to use a nerve agent with such an obvious origin & "scary" Russian sounding name?

Russia uses radioactive substances for their assassinations, typically. And even if they did go with a nerve agent, they'd absolutely choose a widely available agent like VX or Sarin (since everybody and their mother has some)

The fact some can't see what a blatant false flag this is...

Just like the Brexit anti-Russia narrative. Just like the DNC anti-Russia narrative. It is clear the alt-far extremist left is intent on attacking Russia. That is all the reason I need to be skeptical and DEMAND EVIDENCE. Evidence the UK likely will not produce, in accordance with existing treaties and International norms.

....and May is not a conservative. Your nation's highly oppressive anti-gun laws tell me you have no serious population of conservatives/libertarians. And if she really is labeled as a conservative, then she needs to re-read the book on conservatism or most importantly libertarianism.

It seems pretty simple to me. Russia did it because they want the world to know they can kill who they want, when they want, and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. Its also a pretty effective message to any GRU agents thinking about defecting (nowhere is safe).

a reply to: Wayfarer

But that makes zero sense. The world already knew that. Not only is Russia a world-class nuclear power, but they've poisoned plenty of defector-spies with radioactive substances. And if they were putting the world on notice, why the denials? Why ask for evidence? Why would May refuse to turn over evidence?

Not saying Russia can't possibly be guilty. They may well be. Just that the current information is weak, and no evidence has been presented demonstrating their guilt.

I personally don't care either way. Spies (especially defectors or those who are "doubled") are always living on borrowed time. Just interesting to me how far the left is willing to go to push us into war with nuclear-armed Russia. ....while the same forces ignore the immeasurable atrocities committed by communist North Korea, socialist Venezuela, Cuba (some "leaders" even cried when this POS died) etc. Interesting...

No problem with you all going after Russia. But you're also going to go after North Korea and other pariah states.