How come liberals don't want to talk about mental health in relation to school shootings?

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: LeoLeoMidWest
Part of the problem is that kids are not allowed to defend themselves from bullies anymore. When kids physically and verbally abuse classmates and there is little or no punishments or restrictions such behavior escalates. Everyone should be allowed to defend themselves.
My grandson walked away from a bully and was jumped from behind and his head was smacked on a cement floor. He fought back so was deemed to be as much at fault as the bully. WTF! He got the same discipline measures the bully did. This was about 5 or 6 years ago.
Back in the late '70s early 80's my son had problems in elementary school with a bully. This boy was in and out of the school district. All I ever heard about it was at parent-teacher conferences. My son never complained or told me. Teachers said my son never started anything but never avoided the bully. My response was as long as my son wasn't starting trouble he had every right to finish it and defend himself. Multiple teachers agreed with me.

When there is no help for kids who are abused verbally and emotionally , especially when there are other problems, why are we so surprised when emotions that are bottled up explode violently?

Mental health issues are badly neglected but using them as criteria for disallowing gun ownership is a very slippery slope. People get misdiagnosed all the time. Meds are used for many different ailments and not everyone responds the same way to a drug. Have you ever been asked about drug allergies at a doctor visit? There are many people who just will not get help if it means their gun ownership will be threatened or terminated. Witness people who do not get a medical marijuana card for that reason.

I agree with you. I teach Self Defense on a daily basis. The core principle is that you have the right to fight back and defend yourself and my techniques can be painful to those attacking. My sons know that if they get assaulted, bullied or attacked that I expect them to fight back and to help those that can't fight back. They have and will.

I thought legit martial arts taught that violence was a last resort - not the first response.

a reply to: amazing Mental Health, when we think of someone that would pull out a weapon and use it to murder a large amount of people, especially children, obviously, we think no one in their sane mind would do something so terrible! I know that’s what I think. When I think of a human being that would walk into a school and open fire on staff, students or whom ever, I think, Damn that person is obviously insane and has mental health issues! But..... Think about for a second what “textbook” mental health related issues mean in our country? Think about how many millions of US citizens would lose their gun rights (or already have) because of mental health. At some point in most of our lives we suffer from some kind of Anxiety. What about all the ADHD diagnosis, stress, eating disorder, postpartum depression, Hell a few DUI’s or smoking weed could land you in court or in a drug rehabilitation center! Drugs and alcohol fall in the mental health category! Does anyone know how many gun crimes/shootings are related to mental health? I have no idea, but if it’s a high percentage, I would be interested to know exactly what kind of mental health issues. I used to be on board with the mental health check on the guns but it was short lived after giving it a second thought! I’m confident that we would need to sweat the “small stuff” This isn’t exactly what I have in mind when I think “mental health” but I’m sure this is exactly what “they” have in mind! Oh and who keeps saying buying a gun is easy?? I’ll save that for another topic but I assure anyone with a clean background, it is NOT easy!

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: LeoLeoMidWest
Part of the problem is that kids are not allowed to defend themselves from bullies anymore. When kids physically and verbally abuse classmates and there is little or no punishments or restrictions such behavior escalates. Everyone should be allowed to defend themselves.
My grandson walked away from a bully and was jumped from behind and his head was smacked on a cement floor. He fought back so was deemed to be as much at fault as the bully. WTF! He got the same discipline measures the bully did. This was about 5 or 6 years ago.
Back in the late '70s early 80's my son had problems in elementary school with a bully. This boy was in and out of the school district. All I ever heard about it was at parent-teacher conferences. My son never complained or told me. Teachers said my son never started anything but never avoided the bully. My response was as long as my son wasn't starting trouble he had every right to finish it and defend himself. Multiple teachers agreed with me.

When there is no help for kids who are abused verbally and emotionally , especially when there are other problems, why are we so surprised when emotions that are bottled up explode violently?

Mental health issues are badly neglected but using them as criteria for disallowing gun ownership is a very slippery slope. People get misdiagnosed all the time. Meds are used for many different ailments and not everyone responds the same way to a drug. Have you ever been asked about drug allergies at a doctor visit? There are many people who just will not get help if it means their gun ownership will be threatened or terminated. Witness people who do not get a medical marijuana card for that reason.

I agree with you. I teach Self Defense on a daily basis. The core principle is that you have the right to fight back and defend yourself and my techniques can be painful to those attacking. My sons know that if they get assaulted, bullied or attacked that I expect them to fight back and to help those that can't fight back. They have and will.

I thought legit martial arts taught that violence was a last resort - not the first response.

That's traditional eastern martial arts like kung fu, martial arts in America is for kicking ass.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: FyreByrd
I'm a liberal or what y'all would call a liberal (actually a fiscal conservative and a social liberal). I'll talk about mental health.

What about mental health and guns do you want to talk about?

I

They can be seperate issues. We need to talk about mental health and how to treat those with issues before they snap. Then we need to talk about bullying and how to best tackle that issue. See nothing about guns there.

Yes they can be and are separate issues but overlap quite a lot. Your OP intermingled them.

I wholehearted agree with you about early intervention.

Bullying is a huge issue and rampant in our society. It takes the form of physical violence and verbal abuse. It's incoded in our institutions - think hazing. Bullying hurts both the victim and the perpetrator. The intervention has to begin in the home - we tend to bully (or bribe) our children into compliance and those methods set up the viscous cycle. Unless we provide extensive education about healthy child development in high schools, colleges, for all prospective parents it will take a very long time to change.

Punishing the offenders doesn't work - they just feel victimized themselves and in tern go on to bully others.

It is a very good start not only for gun violence but for all forms of social violence.

originally posted by: intrepid
Who says they don't? I've seen it discussed here and the libs were involved in the conversation. This is pretty inflammatory and incorrect imo.

yeah same. it's a big part of the convo among liberals i know, with every shooting.

plus there's overlap between gun law reform and mental health care, ya know.

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066
a reply to: Cygnis
So you are for taking firearms away from people who the state recognizes as having mental issues?

Thanks.

I'm for taking the warning labels off EVERYTHING, and having no safety nets and letting stupid solve itself.

The State (Federal Government) shouldn't have a right or ability to define someone's mental health status, or anything else short of 'legal citizen' and 'non-citizen'.

Federal Government is responsible for three things, and only three things. They've taken a lot more power over the years, and it needs to be taken back / given back to the people.

a reply to: olaru12

Except we've had that culture for a long, long time and it's only recently that we've had this problem with the shootings, so it is something else that has changed.

Kids were taking their rifles to school with them back in the days of Gunsmoke and The RIfleman and no one was scared of it or worried they might pop off and seek to replicate the OK Corral battle with their peers.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: olaru12

Except we've had that culture for a long, long time and it's only recently that we've had this problem with the shootings, so it is something else that has changed.

Indeed, Malthusian saturation combined with a complex mix of factors that lead to a general feeling of hopelessness that promote violent cries for help and or recognition. Your classic Cultural thanatosis death cult spiral of irreversible despair.... There's also a negative side.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: amazing

Well the obvious way to Improve mental health would be universal health care.

Not really, but at least you tried. Bless your heart.

So better access to mental health care wouldn't help deal with mental health issues?

a reply to: amazing

If your liberal friends are not talking about mental healthcare availability and access in the United States of America, then are they actually liberal in the slightest? Probably not.

Cruz the common thread and thus guilty element is that every school shouter is bulled and left out of the normal,socializing humiliating them and making them mourn would've been milestones im sexual discovery that'll instead come as constant tension. Same thing that has led many young men to take when she is not interested in giving

You think cliquey little David hobbit thing and his ::smacking chewing gum:: POP-u-lurr friends like, are inclusive in their lives and stuff you know like....::smack smack:: judging from how they treat their whole nation and junk?!

a reply to: amazing

Not really sure what liberals you are talking to or with. I have friends all over the political spectrum and we talk about mental health issues, medications and guns all in the same conversations.

but isnt it fashionable at the moment to be depressed , have anxiety, ocd, bipola, or multiple personality disorder.
im so sick of people saying they have these issues when tey really dont and the real sufferers are ignored

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: LeoLeoMidWest
Part of the problem is that kids are not allowed to defend themselves from bullies anymore. When kids physically and verbally abuse classmates and there is little or no punishments or restrictions such behavior escalates. Everyone should be allowed to defend themselves.
My grandson walked away from a bully and was jumped from behind and his head was smacked on a cement floor. He fought back so was deemed to be as much at fault as the bully. WTF! He got the same discipline measures the bully did. This was about 5 or 6 years ago.
Back in the late '70s early 80's my son had problems in elementary school with a bully. This boy was in and out of the school district. All I ever heard about it was at parent-teacher conferences. My son never complained or told me. Teachers said my son never started anything but never avoided the bully. My response was as long as my son wasn't starting trouble he had every right to finish it and defend himself. Multiple teachers agreed with me.

When there is no help for kids who are abused verbally and emotionally , especially when there are other problems, why are we so surprised when emotions that are bottled up explode violently?

Mental health issues are badly neglected but using them as criteria for disallowing gun ownership is a very slippery slope. People get misdiagnosed all the time. Meds are used for many different ailments and not everyone responds the same way to a drug. Have you ever been asked about drug allergies at a doctor visit? There are many people who just will not get help if it means their gun ownership will be threatened or terminated. Witness people who do not get a medical marijuana card for that reason.

I agree with you. I teach Self Defense on a daily basis. The core principle is that you have the right to fight back and defend yourself and my techniques can be painful to those attacking. My sons know that if they get assaulted, bullied or attacked that I expect them to fight back and to help those that can't fight back. They have and will.

I thought legit martial arts taught that violence was a last resort - not the first response.

It does, unless you are being physically attacked and hurt. Then you have to defend yourself to stop it. Same if you see another person getting stomped and hurt, it's your responsibility as a martial artists to stop that violent encounter. When you are being physically hurt, that is the last resort. At that point, your anger management, your stress relief, your awareness, your assertiveness, your verbal judo, your non violent techniques, your de escalation tactics have failed or never had a chance to come into play. Sometimes another human being is intent on hurting you no matter how much you try to defuse the situation. It's never okay to let another person physically hurt you.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: amazing

If your liberal friends are not talking about mental healthcare availability and access in the United States of America, then are they actually liberal in the slightest? Probably not.

Stereotypical Liberals then as we have them in the US.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: olaru12

Except we've had that culture for a long, long time and it's only recently that we've had this problem with the shootings, so it is something else that has changed.

Indeed, Malthusian saturation combined with a complex mix of factors that lead to a general feeling of hopelessness that promote violent cries for help and or recognition. Your classic Cultural thanatosis death cult spiral of irreversible despair.... There's also a negative side.

LOL

a reply to: amazing

Answer is simple. "Liberals" (cultural marxists) see the mental health issue/SSRI stuff as a red herring designed only to detract from what they truly believe is the real problem, i.e., guns in the hands of white males.

a reply to: amazing

To answer Your main question, I think a huge reason is that a large number of the 'shootings' are just drills, that 'They' have decided to say are real events, and a lot of People do not want to be seen as cold or that they do not care about kids and teachers dying, and won't admit that they have been 'taken for a ride'. No one wants to talk about deeper issues because they are happy enough to have just jumped on the band-Wagon of the MSM and berate Guns, right from the get go.
All of that was obviously just MHO....

Syx

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: amazing

Answer is simple. "Liberals" (cultural marxists) see the mental health issue/SSRI stuff as a red herring designed only to detract from what they truly believe is the real problem, i.e., guns in the hands of white males.

I don't know if that's a correct stereotype though. Most people that think of themselves as liberals don't consider themselves cultural marxists. Some do for sure but not as many as you might think?

In other news




The wife has a funeral home in a town of less than 2000 people and they get about 1 every other week.