The Makers and the Takers

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


there's a backstory to the fact you have so boldly noted:

...There were a few surprising and shocking numbers. The one that jumps out immediately is South Carolina, the wellfare queen of the Union, that gets nearly $8 back from the government for every $1 they contribute.
Hopefully every one of its residents is driving a BMW and drinking Dom Perignon with all those mountains of cash flowing in.

--> the backstory is that SC produces a wide range of nuclear arms/bombs/wepons at the Savannah Complex... much of that supposed largesse of Federal Monies is money funneled to the State to offset the expenses of security & transport of nuclear devices...

if you look at Utah...another big recipient of Fed money... keep in mind that State stores nuclear waste deep under mountains for the rest of he country...


so those backstory's for Utah & SC being welfare Queens & the taxpayers of those 2 States being Phat & Happy...is misplaced finger-pointing at-the-least....

i'm waiting for a retraction of the OP ineuendo about our family of 11 Relatives living here in Horry county SC for a cumulative 200 years as being Fed Govt moochers....TYVM sir


this is all done in good humor my friends

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I don't think there is, once the door is opened everything may be on the table. The last thing I want is horse-trading over the Constitution.

I thought you were the one claiming it only covers corporations anyhow?

So are you a pro coorporationalist.tm lol

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You could also have called this thread 'the K-selections and the r-selections' because that's the problem - just name something wrong with society and it can all be related back to r-selections and K-selections and how they interact with each other - its a human thing - it exists in every country and culture.

For example, here is an r-selection voicing her opinion about how everyone should live, and she lives in a capitalistic society of all places....



I saw this quote yesterday on twitter - this specific image is from google images when I typed in 'elizabeth warren pay forward for the next kid quote'

originally posted by: St Udio
--> the backstory is that SC produces a wide range of nuclear arms/bombs/wepons at the Savannah Complex... much of that supposed largesse of Federal Monies is money funneled to the State to offset the expenses of security & transport of nuclear devices...

I seriously doubt the $8 they receive per $1 they
pay in is for nuclear arsenal production. But if you have some sources to back up your claim I will look a the.

if you look at Utah...another big recipient of Fed money...

Utah is a net loser, they get less than they pay, it's in the Original Post.

i'm waiting for a retraction of the OP ineuendo about our family of 11 Relatives living here in Horry county SC for a cumulative 200 years as being Fed Govt moochers....TYVM sir

Not gonna happen until you give me my $77 back for those eleven people.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
I thought you were the one claiming it only covers corporations anyhow?

Where am I claiming anything about corporations vis a vis a Constitutional Convention?

a reply to: Sublimecraft


Frankly I think she's an imbecile but this isn't the MudPIt so I don't want it to get overly political since this is a true bipartisan created scenario.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Sublimecraft

this is a true bipartisan created scenario.

Precisely - and this mentality which has led to those stats exists in every society & every culture well beyond the shores of the US. It transcends all religions, all politics and it exists within small social groups right through to the entire collective populations.

In order to fix it, a focus needs to be put on it's genesis - how and why does this exist? It's clearly a multi-generational thing.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
In order to fix it, a focus needs to be put on it's genesis - how and why does this exist? It's clearly a multi-generational thing.

I think the bulk of pork barrel spending can be traced to the practice of lobbying the began in earnest under Grant.

Fascinating read if you dig into its origins.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

The owners of those properties pay taxes...sometimes at higher rates then the residential zones. They already pay it forward for those public services EW speaks of. Not all, but I know some, personally contribute more through various charities and donations. The takers never want to recognize the ones who give through religious charities nor want to speak about the donations they give to public services and officials. Guarantee it is much more than the average citizen pays.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Great post! I ponder this situation a lot. It is amusing that any red state is well, in the red (or maybe they're in the green?), when it comes to what is paid and what is received in terms of federal tax dollars. And it's equally amusing when blue states are far from takers. I guess that shows my leanings, but I do despair at the fact that some states are complete takers.

I am going to do a little bit of digging to see if I can find a break down of the state federal tax income/expense. The extremes in this case are probably "as expected" but the minor "takers" may be receiving money for federal programs that they would be stupid to turn down.

In Montana, I know that the majority of the federal tax money we receive is for the interstate, which benefits the entire northern end of the country by being the longest east/west shipping lane in any state north of Texas. Many states benefit from Montana's interstate, so I suppose it's the tax equivalent of a toll. The money comes with caveats, however. We have to have a legal limit on BAC while driving, and we require a speed limit on the interstates and any state highway which federal tax dollars are spent. And that's the vast majority of state highways which reside outside of towns/cities.

Is this kind of approach result in equity? I doubt it, but to reduce the complexity (read "waste") some states will be hit harder than others. Montana also maintains a state budget surplus, and although it has been trending down, we still have a surplus and have maintained it for a number of years, including through the last recession.

ETA: I really would like to address Hawaii. There is no way a small chain of volcanic islands can maintain its main income (tourism for its natural beauty) and somehow return a positive to the government. They're a strategic point in the Pacific and the youngest state in the union. Pineapples are delicious, but expensive to export fresh from a remote island chain.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Thanks for the suggested reading. It's important to keep abreast to the results of special interests on a state by state basis. My state is riddled with special interests that conflict directly with the interests of the residents.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: FauxMulder
You could always take up residence in SC and stop paying taxes to your Bruce Springsteen fanboy governor. I'm sure he'll still get a beach to himself and all the bridge closings he wants without your Benjamin's.

Fatty Boombah isn't our gov anymore.

No wonder you want to move.

And I may just move there, the wife went to USC and she loves it there. Must have been all the free cash they hurled at her to go to college.

The best part about SC is the how the weather changes every 10 minutes. Thunder storm from hell followed by 105 degree burning sunshine and then back to blowing windy rain again. But that was out in the sticks. Charleston is really nice, I had a good time there.

originally posted by: OrdoAdChao
I am going to do a little bit of digging to see if I can find a break down of the state federal tax income/expense.

Please let me know what you uncover.

ETA: I really would like to address Hawaii. There is no way a small chain of volcanic islands can maintain its main income (tourism for its natural beauty) and somehow return a positive to the government. They're a strategic point in the Pacific and the youngest state in the union. Pineapples are delicious, but expensive to export fresh from a remote island chain.

We shouldn't be paying people to live in paradise when we already pay beacoups bucks to visit them there.

originally posted by: OrdoAdChao
Thanks for the suggested reading. It's important to keep abreast to the results of special interests on a state by state basis. My state is riddled with special interests that conflict directly with the interests of the residents.

The term lobbyist first appears in the UK during the 1830's and then made it;s way across the ocean where it became prevelant under Grant.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
Charleston is really nice, I had a good time there.

I would hope so, they should be giving away free hooch with all the cash we send them.

The federal government needs to have about 80% of its payroll and infrastructure abolished and moved to the states.

AGREED! The federal government was created to serve the states. It was given only a few powers, shoved into a box, and only had limited funding. It has grown into a behemoth and in no way resembles what the founders envisioned. It has standing armies with no war, it grabs endless powers under claiming everything under the sun is interstate commerce (which it is only to make regular). It steals are large percentage of the fruit of labor of every man and woman in the states, under the fraud that it is 'income' (incoming into the country, yes the first case about it concerns a tariff). It has granted itself the power to borrow fiat and steal the gold (the real money) from its people. It is, in every aspect, a disgusting and complete train wreck for the freedoms and liberties of the people it was created to serve.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan