18yrs old - too young to own guns - yet 16yrs old - Old enough to stipulate gun policy?? - madness

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: DJW001

Changing the age of consent, to me, is a scathimg condemnation of parenting and public education in the US.

Slapping a band aid on it wont fix it.

Everything is a matter of probabilities. If something can reduce the odds even a little bit it is better than nothing.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

It's a bit mental like that in the UK from a few directions, cant vote, purchase alcohol, tobacco or Call of Duty until you are 18 but they will let you join the army and go to war for real at 17. LoL

Have to say though I'm apt to believe that these young adults understand the complexities of the gun debate and associated problems just fine, might even be worth listening to what they have to say.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Admitted



Like I said, I will defend rights even when I don't agree with the topic. There's even a protocol within the Constitution that would allow for a change to the Bill of Rights.

But just banning guns because?

Nope.

It's a dream of book-burners.

In my opinion.

Nobody wants to ban guns "because", its not like this movement has come out of the blue. This has been building since Columbine (yes there were mass shootings before that but its SCHOOL SHOOTINGS that brought this about).

Book burners = philistines if you ask me...

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: djz3ro

What you say is so ridiculous im going to need you to cite some support.

"Gun culture" is something ive not witnessed myself. I have hammers, air compressors, brulee torches, and some firearms. They are among tools in my home. A culture is formed around none of them, except maybe the brulee torch.

Sure thing...

Here's a link...

... a Wikipedia article...

... and a BBC article with charts.

Just because you're not part of American Gun Culture doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

a reply to: Admitted

All this crying in the thread whenever someone says anything negative about what these kids are doing as ... "WHAT?! You would infringe on their freedom of speech?! OMG! How COULD you?"

But no seeming consideration at all for the reality that these kids are marching to force an infringement upon the rights of others. A right that is every bit as basic and enshrined as their right to march and protest (speech and assembly) is.

It is hypocrisy to uphold them on the one hand while spitting on the rest of us.

originally posted by: Saiker
a reply to: BotheLumberJack

That and the two income family, video games, violent movies and the slaughter of the unborn has diminished the value of life.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

They were wrong then, too.

They were? Over 58,000 American Soldiers lost their lives in the Vietnam war. A war that wasn't supported by the majority of Americans. It's a basic fact that America was only policing the spread of communism in south east Asia due to the cold war. In no way was America's homeland threatened. When the U.S. enacted the compulsory draft during World War II, they used it to draft many young men into the Vietnam War. A conflict that was in no way a threat to America. The same thing is being played out in the Middle East in addition to American interests related to the control of its oil.

Mass shootings were happening before Columbine.

Read my statement. I said "school shootings." Making the point that mass shootings have also taken place before Columbine, is only making the case that gun control laws need to change not only due to school shootings. Duh!

More people than just these students are affected by violence.

Again duh...the Las Vegas mass shootings was also gun related, not to mention many other mass shootings that have happened over just a few years. These gun protests and the demand for changes in gun control are not only supported and attended by students, but adults too! Really, are you so blind to the fact there's a huge increase in mass shootings with the use of AR-15's in just the past 10 years?

Pop quiz, how many school students in the suburbs vs. kids in inner cities? No internet queries allowed.

Don't know exactly what you're getting at in this question. It's not just mass shootings in schools we're talking about. The potential for additional school shootings is everywhere. We're dealing with mentally ill people and the easy access to assault rifles. That's not limited just to the inner city. We have gun violence in suburban areas as well.

"How many abortions does it take until the lives of the unborn are more important than campaign contributions from special interest groups?"

This question is kind of hypocritical when conservatives want less government interference in peoples lives. Yet they want government to control want a women can do with her own body. Gun violence affects everyone! Abortion is between the mother and her maker. It's also a question whether life begins at inception? There's no evidence to say that it does or does not.

That's stupid. The problem is mental health and a government bureaucracy that didn't vet the buyer. The gun laws would have worked if they had been enforced.

Again, you're proving part of my case. The government didn't do it's job because the vetting of gun buyers was lax, due most likely from the pressures and political campaign influences from the NRA. Vetting mentally ill people doesn't mean it would prevent the access to guns from immature and emotionally charged teens who would engage in gun violence and mass shootings. How many drive-by gang shootings have happened in the U.S.? Claiming protection to own assault rifles or a gun for that matter due to the 2nd amendment is ignoring the basic reason why the second amendment was created. It was for the sole purpose to arm citizens for a state militia and to secure a free state. We didn't have a state military back then to protect us from invading forces. The language of our constitution in other areas have also become outdated. It's why we've had to amend parts of our constitution. The rights to our privacy has also been infringed upon due to the fact our founding fathers could not foresee our current state of communications technology. The same could be said for the fire power of assault rifles and not having a military to protect our freedom from invading forces.

Some will say the second amendment is to protect us from a tyrannical government. That's exactly why we have elected representatives who take an oath of office "to protect and preserve the constitution of the United States." It's why congress can impeach presidents and why we have laws that don't allow presidents to obstruct justice, and why we have free and fair elections. Right now we have a president who is acting guilty trying to obstruct the course of justice. Yet the same people who are worried about arming themselves against a tyrannical government who think they are above the law, continue to support this president!

Rather hypocritical, don't you think?

a reply to: djz3ro

Oh.

Ive seen all those things. But when i hear "gun culture" i expect it to compare to other subcultures. In this case its a completely different use of the word analyzing what is a mundane aspect of a nation that allows gun ownership, from the perspective of an outsider

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: djz3ro

Oh.

Ive seen all those things. But when i hear "gun culture" i expect it to compare to other subcultures. In this case its a completely different use of the word analyzing what is a mundane aspect of a nation that allows gun ownership, from the perspective of an outsider

I dunno, Gun Culture and Car Culture are very similar in a lot of ways...

a reply to: djz3ro

Maybe....collectors. Stamp culture too. And knife culture.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: djz3ro

Maybe....collectors. Stamp culture too. And knife culture.

So you're saying they are like other culture clubs, they come and they go.

As of late, a sixteen year old in school, probably has more of a chance of having an AR pointing at them, then most of us. Sad as that is, should they have a right to assist in influencing gun policy? You are damned right they should!

If kids were wrong when they were protesting the Vietnam war, what's that say about Glorious Emperor-King?

originally posted by: RomeByFire
If kids were wrong when they were protesting the Vietnam war, what's that say about Glorious Emperor-King?

Not all protests are right.

Who cares as long as people still have that freedom.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof


They understand just fine. They simply disagree with your logic.

Adult = old enough to have sex

Teenager = old enough to not want to be hit on or coerced into sex with creepy 30-year-olds.

If children were immune to gun violence by definition, your point would stand. As it actually happens, no one is immune to gun violence and children are simply disinclined to defer to some adult opinons re: guns just because.

None of that makes them "right," obviously. Some MFOL planks are outrageous, such as their call to share information between cops and therapists with regard to the mentally ill.

Mentally ill people are orders of magnitude more likely to suffer from violence than be the cause of it.

Gun violence is (and frankly, has always been) an entitlement issue. It is unsuprising that many spree shooters have a history of entitled opinons (manifestos) and domestic violence for example.

They learned that from their government.

It is also interesting in all this hullabaloo that no one has asked the kids who live in parts of the country where they go hunting regularly what they think about this.

Those kids are part of the authentic, traditional American gun culture. Why has no one shoved any microphones in their faces to ask them anything about this issue?

Likely because they mostly disagree with having their rights to keep to bear taken away. They've been raised around guns, raised how to handle them responsibly, and know very well what they can do because they hunt.

It's also interesting how no one derides Switzerland for *its* gun culture which is actually more pervasive in the population than the US's. That is probably because the Swiss legal ownership doesn't tend to lead to gun violence indicating strongly that it's a cultural thing independent of the guns and access to them that causes this. So if you want to look for causes, you need to look outside the presence or absence of firearms meaning simply getting rid of them won't fix what's broke.

The majority of these school shootings are being done by teenagers. It might be a good idea for the students to discuss why their peers are the ones shooting them.

At the end of the day none of this discussion matters.

IF anyone tries to take my guns by illegally entering my home I will defend my home to the death. Me and many millions of other gun owners wont submit to your tyranny or infringement on our basic rights. It would be worse than any war in recent history with casualties in the 100s of thousands.

There seems to be a fair number of idiots that do not understand the the right to bear arms is for the defense (self, state and country) against enemies. Foreign and domestic. These idiots who are against the right to bear arms, are knowingly or unknowingly (makes no damn difference to me) giving aid to our enemies. THAT is the bottom line here! I have no use for them. They chose to be my enemy. And they don't want guns. Yeah, they are that damn dumb!

The thread headline makes an outstanding point, bravo!

Something seems fishy the way those kids are being played. I remember they took some of the SH family to the Daytona 500, maybe even the Super Bowl, but this is getting ridiculous.