18yrs old - too young to own guns - yet 16yrs old - Old enough to stipulate gun policy?? - madness

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Admitted


Leftist policy ignored the shooters obvious signs.

Leftist sheriff didn't respond to the shootings.

Leftist policy: ok, so we have a "new team" in there, let's make them "right". ?

Leftist sheriff: I don't care which way he leans...he is an individual and does not define an entire party (if that matters somehow). The sheriff ... who cares? He didn't shoot up the school either, just bad at his job. He's not manipulating these kids either.

So, who's manipulating? The old policy? The current policy? Can we change the current policy? What are the kids trying to effect?

....

a reply to: DBCowboy

When an opponent declares, "I will not come over to your side," I calmly say, "Your child belongs to us already...What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community." -Adolf Hitler

This sounds eerily like todays College crowd.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Make that Hitler youth poster with Hilary's face and you'll have a winner for sure!

If that hasn't been done yet...

a reply to: Admitted

The kids want to ban guns because the grown-ups talking to them said so.

a reply to: ketsuko

So now it's not the guns fault kids got shot it's the cars. Perhaps you will change your opinion if you were the victim of a violent crime. I can concede there is no wavering the opinion of people without the learned experience. Just think some of these children are far more learned than you through experience.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Three weeks ago they were eating Tide pods. Now they want to change the Constitution. 'Nuff said.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Admitted

The kids want to ban guns because the grown-ups talking to them said so.

Not because some seen their friends get shot right in front of them?

Or because they have to have active shooter drills every month?

Because teenagers are ALWAYS immediately on board with what an adult tells them to do? C'mon!

originally posted by: FlyingMonkeyInSpace

originally posted by: roadgravel
If the laws aren't changed to suit these kids, I wonder if any will go on a shooting rampage due to hurt feelings.

If the laws are changed to suit these kids, I wonder if you would go on a shooting rampage due to your hurt feelings.

of course not. The kids are the ones going bonkers with school shootings.

The kids might want to learn to embrace the difference in their fellow students instead of bullying and mistreating them at times.

What about you?

You think all 17 of these kids were bullies?

The Boy was ILL and h bought a gun because mental health, back ground checks and authorities failed us.

originally posted by: Saiker
a reply to: ketsuko

So now it's not the guns fault kids got shot it's the cars. Perhaps you will change your opinion if you were the victim of a violent crime. I can concede there is no wavering the opinion of people without the learned experience. Just think some of these children are far more learned than you through experience.

There are two ways to go when something bad happens to you. You can react with fear and try to avoid it for the rest of your life or you can learn to face your fear and get on with life.

Speaking as someone who has had experiences in a different arena of crime, trying to ban or banish the source of your fear is often an impractical solution and simply irrational. You cannot expect the wider world to simply reorder itself to accommodate you. In my case, banishing all men forever from my presence was not going to happen, so I had to learn that not all men were the one who hurt me.

In the case of these kids? They might have to learn that it was their classmate who hurt them, not the gun.

originally posted by: Saiker
You think all 17 of these kids were bullies?

Really?

You know well that some kids are treated badly by there fellow students and it part of the issue. Whether violence or suicide.

a reply to: ketsuko

Often facing your fear dramatically shortens your life. Especially when a mentally ill whom government and adults failed to see the warning signs gets his hands on a gun.

a reply to: Admitted

Well, sort of:


I have entire threads that completely demonstrate each of those lines in that there school shooting triggering meme.

a reply to: roadgravel

You think this kid was bullied or was it he had a history of violence, lost both his parents, and was a textbook nut case?

a reply to: roadgravel

double post

a reply to: roadgravel

Triple post

originally posted by: sooth
The issue I have with the gun debate in relation to the mass killings is that we are not even addressing the real issue in the first place. All these people out marching in the streets are doing is what you call in psychology classic compartmentalization. If you listen to what they are saying, the don't actually want to address the problem they just want to reduce it in scale to the point where it won't penetrate the bubble of the fake reality they want to create for themselves under the fallacy that the universe isn't a violent place. 17 people get shot up with an assault rifle it is going to make the national news and give you the feels. One person gets stabbed in the throat, you're probably not going to hear about it and you can go about your day like everything is fine.

We need to be focusing on the individuals that are perpetrating these acts. Find out why this is happening and identify it early and get them the help they need. We need to make the focus about the person and not the object. I care about all the people involved in these horrible situations - including the perpetrator - and am equally disturbed whether there are 17 fatalities or merely 2. We need to start thinking beyond the self to solve this issue. The entire gun control debate has become extremely myopic and self-serving.

And I'm saying this as an individual that has a very strong dislike for firearms and support most reasonable gun control measures. I just fail to see the mass killing epidemic as merely a gun control issue. It is not at all. I believe it has more to do with how toxic and unnatural our society has become - which is why we have so many otherwise seemingly "normal" individuals malfunctioning and carrying out heinous acts of violence. However, the main reason this is not being addressed is because the people who hold the influence and power want that unnatural state because it is how they derive their power and control.

This is an excellent reply to the topic!

IDK if my original post came off as sounding like the kids shouldn't have a voice, but that is not the case. I remember being that age as well and I know I had good view points (at least I thought so at the time) though I didn't know how little I actually knew at the time. It takes a lot of time for people to develop a wholistic world view and some never even manage that in old age! What I find most obvious in this whole debate is the demonization of one specific firearm, which happens to be the most popular firearm platform for many shooting disciplines from sport shooting, hunting and self protection. There have been many shootings where this gun wasn't used but since it has been used in some and it is a recognizable image (thanks hollywood!), it is used to paint an entire group with a single stroke. When people act like this it is obvious they are coming from a place of ignorance on the topic and that leads to questioning motives behind certain actions such as banning certain weapons (or classes).

Most avid shooters know that there are many other weapons that would be much more deadly than the gun they've chosen to demonize but I have yet to hear a peep about those and it is a good thing that people have remained silent about the relatively poor choice in weapons (responsible gun owners aren't trying to push the most effective killing gun, which is what the left would have you believe).

The media, and the protesters, would have you believe that school shootings/killings only happen in the US but when looking at the data (over 300+ years of data!) you will see how wide spread the violence is across the globe and it isn't limited to gun violence as there are massacres with melee weapons as well.

en.wikipedia.org...

As has been pointed out it seems that there is a major underlying problem that is causing this to happen and pointing at guns (as the cause) isn't going to fix the issue, as looking at the data from other countries will show.

Here is an article on school shootings since 2000 by the Washington Post - it breaks them down pretty well.

www.washingtonpost.com...

It says there are almost 250 students and teachers killed since 2000, which is an average of 14 per year. This is a far cry from the numbers I've heard over and over by protesters in the news of some "7,000" since Columbine. When I heard that I thought it sounded high, but didn't know it was SO far off.
**PLEASE, if I have these numbers wrong, point me in the right direction for the correct numbers, I looked at a few places and they seemed in line with this, but I've heard that 7,000 number a few times, so IDK if I'm missing something or what.

Some other numbers to give perspective.

In 2017 dog attacks killed 42 people - or 3x the average of school shootings
-29 deaths were from pit bulls alone - or 2x the average of school shootings

www.dogsbite.org...

Over Thanksgiving weekend (2017) chicago had 8 dead and 36 wounded from shootings - in a city with very tight gun legislation.
- 12 killed, 57 shot/wounded on Memorial day in 2015 (Chicago). In one day, that is the average of an entire year of school shootings.

www.chicagotribune.com...

abc7chicago.com...

I'm posting these numbers to give a perspective on the school shooting with regards to numbers (be they accurately reported or extremely inflated by protesters). When looking at these numbers and we don't see people bashing pit bull owners (at least as much as they do gun owners), then it is obvious that this isn't solely based on the numbers of people killed, which is the entire point of the protest. The "how many is enough" and such.

If these kids were truly worried based on the numbers, they would be more concerned with shopping at a convienence store (between 9pm - 6am), walking their dog, or visiting any major city in America. But instead they buy into the media's hype and they probably have a skewed view of what is really happeneing, because the rest of the stuff doesn't effect them (so much).

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Ha! I like that! [Never confuse my defending teenagers with a love of Hilary.]

a reply to: Saiker

Mental Health will strip millions of law abiding Americans from their right to bare arms. This entire “mental health” problem has gotten way out of hand. There’s plenty of people “insane” that never been diagnosed, meanwhile law abiding citizens with a little anxiety or ADHD face loosing their rights to own a gun. I think better security for our schools seems like a better answer than stripping guns from citizens.

When I was 16 I knew that the war in Vietnam wan't something that I wanted to die in. I didn't believe in the domino theory of stopping the communists.

Just because you are 16, does not mean that you are simple and cannot understand the arguments for and against gun laws.

I think that we are witnessing the dawn of a new era. I think that the republicans are going to lose a lot of support if they continue to support the NRA view of the world.