US boy, 9, 'kills sister, 13, over controller'

originally posted by: abeverage
I always find it interesting there was rarely in any of the reports a mention of color, only that a 9 year old kills his sister no mention of anything else really...

The only color of consequence here is red. The color of the poor girls blood. Trying to give importance to any other color serves absolutely no purpose and says much more about those inquiring about it than it does the family that is forever shattered by this event.

The argument of "guns don't kill people, and without a gun the perpetrator would have found another way to kill..." is absolute bollocks.

Guns do kill people, they are specifically designed to be the most efficient killing machines we have in society, with no other purpose other than to kill... regardless that it takes a persons involvement to make it happen (that's the same with any inanimate object).

Guns allow a person to easily kill at a distance, removing the up close and personal nature of conflict with almost any other weapon, which will make someone think twice. They give a sense of power and invincibility that no other weapon does. A twitch of the finger, at distance so no immediate fear of retaliation... and dead.

Don't gun lovers often say "... guns are the great equalizer"? (allowing a weakling to kill stronger opponent).

I would much rather face someone with a knife than with a gun, and in this case the girl would have had a much better chance of survival against anything other than a gun. I think the only way a 9 year old can easily kill a 13 year old, without a struggle, is with a gun.

So yes, the "gun" is a big part of the problem.

a reply to: UpIsNowDown

Okay, let's use your logic here...

Kids a lot younger than this kid in Afghanistan DO have access to guns, fully automatic machine guns even, they're everywhere. They argue and bicker over things too, but they don't murder their siblings with guns over it.

Why???

The problem is NOT the gun, the problem IS the attitude and mindset of the person holding it.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: UpIsNowDown

Okay, let's use your logic here...

Kids a lot younger than this kid in Afghanistan DO have access to guns, fully automatic machine guns even, they're everywhere. They argue and bicker over things too, but they don't murder their siblings with guns over it.

Why???

The problem is NOT the gun, the problem IS the attitude and mindset of the person holding it.

In this case, it's the attitude and mindset of a 9 year old boy.

a reply to: puzzlesphere

OK.

I am now repeating myself for the 4th time.

Your argument might hold water *if* the gun was sitting right there on the coffee table and the kid picked it up and lashed out with hit in a violent rage, but he didn't.

He had to get up, go into a whole other room, get the gun from wherever it was, bring it back into the room where his sister was, and shoot her. That takes a decent amount of time. He had to think about what he was doing. He was in enough of a murderous rage for that long. It was not a snap lashing out; it was calculated.

There were multiple failures here:

1. The parents did not secure the gun properly.

But more importantly:

2. Where were they to have let their 9-year-old get this dangerously violent?

If the kid was capable to this degree of murderous rage, then sans gun, nothing prevents him from retrieving a knife or a bat or a crowbar and using them, and all three of those things are equally capable of killing someone when they make contact with your head or neck.

a reply to: auroraaus

Yes, that too.

What of it?

Don't start with the 'he didn't know' line of reasoning because as has already been stated, he knew enough to go retrieve the firearm, return with it, aim it at the back of her head (not the front, where she could see him) and pull the trigger. He showed intent to do grave bodily harm, and he the acted upon that intent. He willfully executed his sister.

For some odd reason, Yahoo! News loves to put up stories of children getting killed or other helpless people being brutalized. I guess there's a market for it somewhere that gets them clicks. From women, mostly. It just makes me sick and sad, and does nothing to help raise my already low expectations of humanity.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

What of it?

At 9 years of age he should be fully aware that actions have consequences, that a bullet to the head can kill. Even my child, who is younger, knows all about life and death, and he's on the spectrum.

We ask, where were the parents? What were the parents doing when bringing up their children?

Either they were "too busy at work trying to make ends meet" (which is also an issue in today's society which needs addressing) or they were "too out of it to care" which makes me wonder then (a multitude of things mind), how come these kids weren't in a safer home environment to begin with?

You raised a great point before about Afghani children by the way - I personally suspect, barring cultural differences, it's because they have more family around, and a closer community connection, to teach kids about the world they live in and what rules they need to adhere to.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
How ironic (tragic, but still ironic)...

9 year old gets pissed because his 13 year old sister won't let him play the latest version of Murder Slaughter Bloodbath Death Gore Porn - ver. 37.3...so he grabs a real gun and blows her brains out for real!

Nah, couldn't have been violent video games that inspired this kid to pick up a gun (which is absolutely incapable of firing by itself, btw) and murder someone, now could it??? Nawwwwww!

THEN...BBC picks it up and runs with the story. Nary a mention of the whole violent video game piece.

Guns are NOT the problem, the problem IS the person who pulls the trigger!

How long is it going to take for people to get this?????????

Or the violent avaters like your own that people use to glorify guns and violence.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

If this nine year old child is diagnosed with psychopathy and is a cold blood killer, maybe, but I doubt it. Study up on your child development. A nine year old doesn't even fully grasp the concept of death as a finality. You make your case poorly.

I didn't try to make a case. I was stunned at someone choosing to not see the problem with a child choosing to kill someone. The gun didn't make him do it. Nothing about this was cold-blooded, it was heat of the moment. This action doesn't require someone studied in child development or psych to understand something is developmentally or psychologically wrong with the the kid.

a reply to: ketsuko

If the kid was capable to this degree of murderous rage, then sans gun, nothing prevents him from retrieving a knife or a bat or a crowbar and using them, and all three of those things are equally capable of killing someone when they make contact with your head or neck.

No a bullet is far more likely to kill you when it comes in contact with your head.

a reply to: purplemer

Oh, that post is definitely a framer!!!

You win the interwebz for that one!

...except for the fact that you neglected to read the text in that same avatar. Oops!

Get that boy treatment and into a home where he cant get a gun so easily. Knowing americans the gun was probably under a pillow loaded and ready to kill.

a reply to: auroraaus

The mind set of a 9 year old boy in 2018.

It is disturbing what I hear come out of the mouths of some 9 year olds today. Their view of life and death is also very troubling. Look at their texts. "Go kill yourself!" "I just want to die!" "I hope you die!" "I am going to kill myself!" "I am going to kill you!" These kind of texts are so common that no one pays attention to what is going on in the minds of these children anymore. I am told so often that "they are just being dramatic".

I can understand why so many people think that. Most of the children I deal with do come across as if they are playing some part in a play or TV series. So many of them don't know how to act. They really don't know what is right, what is expected, and what is safe.

The number of children I see that have cut themselves or has self harmed themselves in other ways is astonishing. Even more astonishing is the number of them that are on psycho-therapeutic drugs. Some have even been led to believe that they are disabled and are on disability because they can't control their thoughts or emotions. Depression, Bi-polar, anxiety, have become labels for some of these children, some even below the age of 8.

We have a problem folk. The problems they keep hidden are the ones that need our attention, not the ones they keep distracting us with.

honestly i think the draft needs reinstated and every adult should serve for two years and that during those 2 years they can refuse deployment to the battlefield and just focus on the training and learn to improve themselves, mainly for the purpose of learning how to properly operate and store a gun, learn how to be a role model for others, learn how to tame your emotions, learn proper fitness, learn self-discipline, learn how to connect with others and learn to put america before politics, race, religion or anything else.

americans are too disconnected to one another and things like this are merely a sign of our disconnection, americans need to learn self discipline and how to be an example to others so kids have less reason to act out with violence.

americans lack order and self control, something which is adversely affecting children and teens because the adults are making a bad example with their uncontrolled words and actions, not thinking of the damage their careless selfishness is causing their children, sometimes your feelings should be secondary until your child becomes an adult, otherwise bullying, school shootings, future criminality, drug addiction and suicide becomes much more likely. take some responsibility for that life you created and stop letting this stuff keep happening because of you.

who cares if guns are involved or not because in the end we have a bigger problem that laws aren't going to fix.

Every gun thread is the exact same on ATS.

Someone or a lot of someones are shot, and before you know it we have a two sided debate.

On the one hand we have one group who want to just jump right on the band waggon denouncing the gun, claiming it is responsible for this horrible event.

The on the otherwise we have this other group who want to blame just about everything other than the gun, its a mental health problem, its violent video games, its bad parenting, it wouldn't happen if every one had a gun, ohhh but the gun is just a tool, what about cars/knifes/planes/ violent braziers. Again the list goes on and on and on, basically everything but the gun and right to own the gun is to blame.

I personally think that first of all, lets face it a kid has died, regardless of what our own personal views on guns are that is a tragedy. I have been just a guilty as this as everyone else but I think we need to stop for a second and remember always that a innocent child has been killed and that should be respected above all else regardless of our personal views.

On saying that however, both sides of the gun debate must also accept that there is a problem with gun culture in America and steps have to be taken to try to reduce overall gun deaths. I think the time for arguing about if there is a problem with the gun culture in America is over, there quite obviously is a problem, now the debate needs to move on to what to do about it.

For anything meaningful to actually happen however both sides need to get on the same page and make some concessions. The "Never-Gun" club need to accept that guns are always going to be a feature of American society as it is enshrined in the constitution and culture, you can never ban guns no more than you can ever ban cars or any other tools. Yet at the same time "Cult-Gun" also have to accept that the status-quo is not working and changes to gun laws have to be made to promote safety.

What those changes should be, I don't know, but I do know there are a lot of people in this debate who feel very passionate about it and if they can put their differences aside I believe that passion could be put to make America safer. First though everyone needs to STFU and remember that innocent people are being killed, put aside their own selfish agendas and do something. We all know next week their will be another story about some poor sod full of lead until something is done that won't change.

a reply to: purplemer

If you want to kill, and this kid did, then all of those things I listed will do it. Statistically speaking, more people are killed by blunt force trauma than by guns every year in this country. So those things seem to do the trick very well for not being as lethal.

So please, explain to me how the simple lack of firearm would have 100% saved his sister's life.

You can't because you don't know that. This kid had intent to kill. That is clear, and just because other instruments are a bit less lethal doesn't make them 100% safe. You cannot definitively make the statement that the lack of gun would have saved her for that reason.

a reply to: ketsuko

Wow... the kid had to go into a whole other room to get the gun?... taking what... 30 seconds? Heaps of time to cool down... lol

Obviously, being a gun had nothing to do with the situation.

At 9 years old, the gun suited his supposes (get the game controller), and the time it took to access the gun clearly wasn't long enough to allow him to cool down and consider his actions.

a reply to: ketsuko

... because the girl would have had a much better chance against almost anything else other than a gun. It's not that easy to sneak up on someone with a bat or a knife without them noticing and retaliating... the gun can be shot from across the room, giving little chance for defense, and high chance for fatality. It's also much more "real" in hand-to-hand combat, without the factor of distance, to be removed, both physically and emotionally, from the violent act.

The kid was a little brother, and probably knew quite well that he couldn't best his older and likely stronger sister with any other weapon.

The "gun" is the "the great equalizer"... after all.

a reply to: puzzlesphere

What kind of 9-year-olds do you know?! He may not have been completely cooled off, no, but he should have realized by then that he was about to kill his sister. Of course, most normal 9-year-olds wouldn't have gotten to that place to begin with no matter how angry.

What part of "abnormal response" do any of you not get?

Before we go off on the tool in question, we ought to be asking ourselves why a 9-year-old was in a murderous rage.