U.S. Steel reopening Illinois plant after tariff announcement

a reply to: Ahabstar

Nice post!

The bottom line is the ball is in China's court now. Their economy isn't exactly strong, debt-wise, either.

How do they respond?

a reply to: RadioRobert

I think the impression his harshest critics have created about him being unhinged, unstable, unpredictable, etc is actually a strength when he comes to the table.

That is a very intriguing point, and one I cannot deny. It makes perfect sense that the very opposition to Trump's actions reinforced them. After all, if his own citizens are screaming for him to back away, that's a pretty good indicator he's about to do something extremely stoopid (and painful to the target). At least, it is in a normal world.

Personally, I have always believed Trump wanted more than anything to NOT turn South Korea into an island nation. But at the same time, if he felt the US was threatened, I believe he would do so as a last resort.

I'm glad Little Rocket Man believed it too. War is a bad thing.

TheRedneck

10 to 15 years ago almost all industry construction pipe and steel specifications in the US required domestic pipe and steel. We (The US) could not meet the demand then. And we have a long way to go to meet the demand today. This is how China got in the game in the first place. No ones fault but ourselves. But for sure, the tariffs will allow us to at least compete in the supply. I for one hope we have many investing in increasing production in the US. Reality tells me that the investment dollars will be from foreign investors, but thats ok.

a reply to: Ahabstar

You won’t give me lumber if you don’t want any of my chairs so we deal in currency that you can trade it for motorcycles or whatever. But if I can’t gain enough currency for my chairs then I can’t buy your lumber. Or if I can buy imported lumber for less than your lumber, you are not buying a motorcycle in either case. Only I am still in business and you have to sell your sawmill at least until the lumberjack can’t buy my chairs. Then we are all sunk, because you have no sawmill, the lumberjack has no axe and I have no tools. Eventually we go to the government for a handout, but he has no cash either because we haven’t paid any taxes since we closed up shop.

That is the best description of what we have been doing economically I have heard yet.

TheRedneck

a reply to: nwtrucker

China is a bit different player. The US gave China quite a bit of cash to fight Japan in the early stages of the WW2 and then turned from Feudalism to Communism at the end (much like Russia did at the close of WW1). Communist China said they would honor the debt but contends that the US is in debt to them. Add in trade sanctions and the US would be better served just cutting ties.

Opening trade in the 1970’s by Nixon with China was two-fold. China could finally start paying their 20 some year old debt and US manufacturing had a huge open market since Europe had fully recovered from WW2 and was pretty much closed.

Actually the US is owed huge amounts of money from WW1’s Lend Lease programs especially by France but they reneged with the old tour the graveyards and look at what we lost in men versus the US in fighting the Kaiser. The US continues to provide aid and rebuilding after disasters and wars worldwide because it is the right thing to do. Heard of any cans for Harvey Relief donations in France or Germany next to registers in gas stations and restaurants? Nope, didn’t think so. Did you see any here in the US for India’s Christmas Tsunami? I did. But that is charity versus debt and is a poor argument.

But tariffs are also negotiating tools versus a flat out banning of importation. Like Denmark’s cheese for random product example or Cuban cigars for a direct example. Europe is worried that we will tariff their steel and might counter with Harley’s being on a tariff. We can now negotiate for a low token tariff or no tariff at all on the product to open trade on a dollar to dollar basis like zero tariffs on the first $2 million of product or no tariff if and only if you buy $2 million worth of a product. A great example is the change in the Walther PPK to the PPK/S (from six shot to seven) due to the 1968 importation ban. Walther had a choice to make, change or no importation of a desired model. They also licensed to Smith and Wesson in Maine before opening their own plant in Ft Smith, Arkansas. Now they don’t even make the .32 ACP as an option. They are all .380’s now. All because of the US market.

a reply to: Ahabstar

Simply put, there's plenty of options for both the U.S. and China to haggle these issues out. Therefore, an all out trade war is unlikely and more fear mongering by those who either profit from the current economic scene or just worry about any form of change.

Time will tell. Thanks for the response.

a reply to: RadioRobert

Damn straight!

Backfired on them. lol

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Ahabstar

Therefore, an all out trade war is unlikely and more fear mongering by those who either profit from the current economic scene or just worry about any form of change.

It's pretty damn difficult to suggest that an all out trade war is "unlikely" when you have a sitting President of the United States suggesting that Trade Wars are good and easy to win.

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Ahabstar

Therefore, an all out trade war is unlikely and more fear mongering by those who either profit from the current economic scene or just worry about any form of change.

It's pretty damn difficult to suggest that an all out trade war is "unlikely" when you have a sitting President of the United States suggesting that Trade Wars are good and easy to win.

Willingness to go to war is about the best rhetoric in avoiding that war. Credibility, sir, credibility.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: nwtrucker

The naysayers cite the potential job loss due to those higher prices domestically.

Not just job losses but the rise in cost could prompt a rise in inflation which would lead to interest rate rises that will also hit the consumer , people with less money to spend spend less money so it would also have a knock on effect on the wider economy.

Add that to the reciprocal tariffs imposed by effected countries on American goods and you have a recipe for recession.

Doom and gloom. What happened to the day when Americans knew they were the best and didn't need any outside help? The liberals and democrats took that all away, along with the globalists. We NEED to start taxing other countries, just like they tax us. Everyone wants to point at the U.S. for being the bad guy putting tariffs on thing to protect our economy and future, but nobody wants to point fingers at other countries who do it to us. That time is over.

While this may or may not be a good (or bad) thing.. and I don't think anyone really knows, or will see the results for a few years, I will say.. as a "trade war" with China, it's a bit silly.. as only 3% of our steel imports are from China. Most come from allies, the most coming from Canada.

China sent 2.1 million metric tons to the USA in 2015 and 800k metric tons in 2016. Www.trade.gov says. A metric ton is 1.1 our tons or 2205 lbs. As our developments go up so does their imports. That's 144 trucks a day 365 days a year at a minimum in 2015.

a reply to: nwtrucker

It's common sense, to protect our own interests, and for too long, that hasn't happened. The more the Establishment types complain, the more we can know that President Trump is doing what is right for the country.

originally posted by: LaitModelFan
10 to 15 years ago almost all industry construction pipe and steel specifications in the US required domestic pipe and steel. We (The US) could not meet the demand then. And we have a long way to go to meet the demand today. This is how China got in the game in the first place. No ones fault but ourselves. But for sure, the tariffs will allow us to at least compete in the supply. I for one hope we have many investing in increasing production in the US. Reality tells me that the investment dollars will be from foreign investors, but thats ok.

Folks gots to remember that "China" may mean american investors and industry that skipped out to China. Not really China save for labor force. And its also know that "China" makes a lot of junk.

a reply to: Logarock

Mildly related, we had to buy our Titanium from Russia to build the F-22......