U.S. Steel reopening Illinois plant after tariff announcement

It should be obvious that doing business as usual won't work. Apparently we've lost 50,000 steel industry jobs since 2000 and half of our aluminum plants since 2013.

In a later move, Trump announced exemptions for both Canada and Mexico and left the door open for negotiations with the remaining nations affected as a safety valve/alternative to an expanded tariff fight.

Yes, it will increase prices domestically for consumers and that's the downside. Yet to do nothing will likely kill those critical industries and leave the U.S.totally subject to foreign sources, both economically and politically.

(One only has to look at Japan when the U.S. cut off their oil and scrap metal shipments prior to Pearl Harbor to see the political power depending on foreign supplies can subject one to....)

The naysayers cite the potential job loss due to those higher prices domestically. Boeing is given as an example with it's dependency on aluminum which other nations aircraft industries would not be subject to resulting in losses of orders.

It is of concern. Yet, subsidies via the Federal gov't could offset that issue for Boeing and others, as well. There are, perhaps, other possible solutions I am unaware of.

There will be push-back from some of our own Corporations likely as well. The auto industry could be one area. Yet, this move is in the national interest, overall. If we have any chance to level the playing field, industry-wise, steel and aluminum production is 'Job One'.

www.chicagotribune.com...

Our country has been pillaged by corrupt politicians for so long that fixing the simple things are going to be a little painful for some at the beginning. That’s how I look at it. I have a feeling these tariffs are gonna grab us some great deals once the countries we trade with realize we’re done rolling over for them.

The thing is that if we do not have good jobs in our communities and the people do not spend that money they earn in the community to increase your communities jobs, then nobody can afford to buy anything. I blame a lot of our societies problems on people buying from big online businesses like Amazon and others because it takes money out of local economies.

Whoever has been running this nations economy is failing beyond belief. People are buying stuff they do not need because they can get it online cheap, also because they get things online at a reduced price, they blow their savings on things they do not actually need, they seem to think now that their available credit on a card is their money and they need to use it to boost their credit score.

Boy, have the people been conditioned wrong in our society.

Good. Thats how its supposed to work.

Tariffs protect american companies and workers from cheap imports that undermine our economy.

Big step in right direction. (If its not just for show and more tariffs on more industries follow.)

originally posted by: rickymouse
The thing is that if we do not have good jobs in our communities and the people do not spend that money they earn in the community to increase your communities jobs, then nobody can afford to buy anything. I blame a lot of our societies problems on people buying from big online businesses like Amazon and others because it takes money out of local economies.

Whoever has been running this nations economy is failing beyond belief. People are buying stuff they do not need because they can get it online cheap, also because they get things online at a reduced price, they blow their savings on things they do not actually need, they seem to think now that their available credit on a card is their money and they need to use it to boost their credit score.

Boy, have the people been conditioned wrong in our society.

I propose a different scenario than the 'whoever is running our economy', that being 'no one' has been running our economy! Segments? Yes. Industry specific, of course. Our overall economy? No. Not even the bankers! Profit is the incentive and that is what has motivated the incremental changes. It just got out of hand and any change to it and I stress ANY was going to step on some vested interests' toes so do nothing.

Occam's razor.

No more.....

originally posted by: intrptr

Good. Thats how its supposed to work.

Tariffs protect american companies and workers from cheap imports that undermine our economy.

Big step in right direction. (If its not just for show and more tariffs on more industries follow.)

Agree totally.

originally posted by: intrptr

Good. Thats how its supposed to work.

Tariffs protect american companies and workers from cheap imports that undermine our economy.

Big step in right direction. (If its not just for show and more tariffs on more industries follow.)

Agreed

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: rickymouse
The thing is that if we do not have good jobs in our communities and the people do not spend that money they earn in the community to increase your communities jobs, then nobody can afford to buy anything. I blame a lot of our societies problems on people buying from big online businesses like Amazon and others because it takes money out of local economies.

Whoever has been running this nations economy is failing beyond belief. People are buying stuff they do not need because they can get it online cheap, also because they get things online at a reduced price, they blow their savings on things they do not actually need, they seem to think now that their available credit on a card is their money and they need to use it to boost their credit score.

Boy, have the people been conditioned wrong in our society.

I propose a different scenario than the 'whoever is running our economy', that being 'no one' has been running our economy! Segments? Yes. Industry specific, of course. Our overall economy? No. Not even the bankers! Profit is the incentive and that is what has motivated the incremental changes. It just got out of hand and any change to it and I stress ANY was going to step on some vested interests' toes so do nothing.

Occam's razor.

No more.....

Our society full of people only desiring to look out for themselves is running society possibly. What happened to people working together for a common goal? When I was younger, I remember lots more people working together, the cities watched out not to let too much competition from outside of the community come in. Now, they give big tax incentives for big chain stores to take profits from the people.

You're right, nobody is overseeing the economy, it is like leaving your steaks sitting next to the dog when you are cleaning the grill. It isn't the dog's fault if he grabs one.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: rickymouse
The thing is that if we do not have good jobs in our communities and the people do not spend that money they earn in the community to increase your communities jobs, then nobody can afford to buy anything. I blame a lot of our societies problems on people buying from big online businesses like Amazon and others because it takes money out of local economies.

Whoever has been running this nations economy is failing beyond belief. People are buying stuff they do not need because they can get it online cheap, also because they get things online at a reduced price, they blow their savings on things they do not actually need, they seem to think now that their available credit on a card is their money and they need to use it to boost their credit score.

Boy, have the people been conditioned wrong in our society.

I propose a different scenario than the 'whoever is running our economy', that being 'no one' has been running our economy! Segments? Yes. Industry specific, of course. Our overall economy? No. Not even the bankers! Profit is the incentive and that is what has motivated the incremental changes. It just got out of hand and any change to it and I stress ANY was going to step on some vested interests' toes so do nothing.

Occam's razor.

No more.....

Our society full of people only desiring to look out for themselves is running society possibly. What happened to people working together for a common goal? When I was younger, I remember lots more people working together, the cities watched out not to let too much competition from outside of the community come in. Now, they give big tax incentives for big chain stores to take profits from the people.

You're right, nobody is overseeing the economy, it is like leaving your steaks sitting next to the dog when you are cleaning the grill. It isn't the dog's fault if he grabs one.

No it isn't the dog's fault. You can take it to the bank that he'll be blamed for it.....

a reply to: nwtrucker

The naysayers cite the potential job loss due to those higher prices domestically.

Not just job losses but the rise in cost could prompt a rise in inflation which would lead to interest rate rises that will also hit the consumer , people with less money to spend spend less money so it would also have a knock on effect on the wider economy.

Add that to the reciprocal tariffs imposed by effected countries on American goods and you have a recipe for recession.

Any you know more than just US Steel, others will be employed. Fast food, Trucking, clothing retailers, The Highway Dept. to name a few.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: nwtrucker

The naysayers cite the potential job loss due to those higher prices domestically.

Not just job losses but the rise in cost could prompt a rise in inflation which would lead to interest rate rises that will also hit the consumer , people with less money to spend spend less money so it would also have a knock on effect on the wider economy.

Add that to the reciprocal tariffs imposed by effected countries on American goods and you have a recipe for recession.

This.

People are happy to celebrate the short term gains without considering wider potential implications.

it's really annoying when i hear "oh it'll make things more expensive for consumers" as if that's the only reason to avoid protectionism and be all gung ho about uncontrolled free trade. it clearly shows how little people understand real healthy capitalism these days, real capitalism is about competition and indeed tariffs and backing out of free trade agreements does cost prices to go up, but that'll only be at the start and eventually the companies on top will either lower prices or be knocked out by smaller companies who will offer lower prices.

in the end unrestrained free trade is counterintuitive towards actual capitalism, it artificially drive prices down by destroying fair competition and encouraging monopolization, it drives the quality of products and services down by promoting a policy of cheap and fast is best, basically profit becomes more important than the consumer and once the consumer feels alienated by this while having few other options they will turn away from capitalism in resentment and eventually they will demand socialism because the whole concept in which capitalism is based on which is human self interest is being ignored for profit.

humans are inherently selfish and if capitalism won't provide it then they will demand something better suited to monopolization of those services and products, basically unrestrained free trade is destroying capitalism and creating a society that favors socialism more and more for the sake of getting what they want at a decent quality since corporations won't provide it like they used to.

ever wonder how american products across the board have become trash compared to european, south korean, japanese, and etcetera products when american products used to be some of the best in the world? it's because modern "free trade" is slowly destroying our capitalist system and making corporations fall into a cycle of money over the consumer, destroying themselves and screwing over the consumers with their greed.

free trade is just a fancy name for unrestrained destructive capitalism and is not american or even human whatsoever, it's an abomination that Adam smith himself would feel ashamed of being associated with if he saw how it's being misused.

i agree with trump about tariffs since i know using a vat or bat tax won't help adjust to the damage foreign vat taxes causes to american competitiveness on the global markets, vat taxes are totally protectionist and are just tariffs with a deceptive name, america is losing our edge because little deceptions like this from foreign governments, acting like we are the bad guys even though our tax laws and trade policies are practically benevolent compared to the rest of the world and their sneaky little backhanded tricks.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: nwtrucker

The naysayers cite the potential job loss due to those higher prices domestically.

Not just job losses but the rise in cost could prompt a rise in inflation which would lead to interest rate rises that will also hit the consumer , people with less money to spend spend less money so it would also have a knock on effect on the wider economy.

Add that to the reciprocal tariffs imposed by effected countries on American goods and you have a recipe for recession.

I believe inflation is inevitable. Recession? The very fact of this plant reopening due to the tariffs contradicts that possibility.

Reciprocal tariffs will hurt the nation enacting them far more than it would the U.S., if for no other reason than we are far more the net importer. It's even hard to think of any specific exports we have left that would likely be targeted and none of significant size.

Yes, there would be a price increase, domestically. Far more desirable than virtually the complete loss of base metal industry. That or even any further in that direction and the U.S. is done as an industrial nation, with any degree of self-sufficiency, that is.

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: nwtrucker

The naysayers cite the potential job loss due to those higher prices domestically.

Not just job losses but the rise in cost could prompt a rise in inflation which would lead to interest rate rises that will also hit the consumer , people with less money to spend spend less money so it would also have a knock on effect on the wider economy.

Add that to the reciprocal tariffs imposed by effected countries on American goods and you have a recipe for recession.

This.

People are happy to celebrate the short term gains without considering wider potential implications.

I suspect it's you who isn't looking at the wider implications.

whoever is running the country? the inter-nationalists are running the country and the world.
its the bankers/families running the world following protocols created now two centuries ago. (1850s.)
thier insane plot to rule the world is still continuing to this day.

i LOVE tarifs. i hate outscourcing. lets bring back american jobs.

more middle class jobs means less crime, how can anyone not want that???
oh the bad guys do not want that, they want everyone in servitude, like good cattle.

A few unpopular points for trump supporters.

Us steele has increased in profit since 2000. Shares are worth 6 times what they were then. The average salary is $80k. Automation is responsible for job loss not markets. Literally the US steele industry controls 70 percent of the steele market.

Tariff on steele has never worked.

And it affects multiple industries as well as consumers.

seekingalpha.com...

The Illinois plant is only 1 of a remarkable amount of capital that is in motion to be used for the steel and supporting industries.

a reply to: luthier

yeah profits which benefits a few major corporations and guarantee overpriced garage quality steel compared to germany and a number of other nations, the competitiveness and diversity of american products are being strangled by vat taxes and various free trade regulations that violate the spirit of capitalism. it's not profit that we have a problem with, it's consumer satisfaction, job security, fairness, competition, quality and personal freedom which we have been losing for corporate greed.

originally posted by: luthier
A few unpopular points for trump supporters.

Us steele has increased in profit since 2000. Shares are worth 6 times what they were then. The average salary is $80k. Automation is responsible for job loss not markets. Literally the US steele industry controls 70 percent of the steele market.

Tariff on steele has never worked.

And it affects multiple industries as well as consumers.

seekingalpha.com...

Hmmm, then why reopen the plant? After all, the job loss is to automation, yes? ( Which there isn't much choice as the other nations, especially in Asia, have much newer and modern plants.)

Gov't subsidized steel dumping in the U.S.isn't even argued. Then there's the quality of steel being foisted with those lower prices. Apparently, not very good.

Of course, the subsidies may allow for less automated operations to reopen thus hiring more workers and the secondary jobs it engenders.

Lastly, your going to have a hard time blaming the plant closings on automation to the workers in Pittsburgh, et al.

Lastly, lastly, the streams of Chinese steel entering the U.S. is mind warping. I've seen it. Those in construction have as well.

I'm sure you have some 'interest' in this, but your 'numbers' are negated by actual closures of plants and job loss directly due to those closures. ( Admittedly, loss of nearby iron ore is a cost factor which the subsidies will help with.)

(Actually, a few months back, Trump was pretty hard on Canadian dumping of steel in the U.S.. Now? An exemption for Canada. Why? Those same U.S. plants now rely on Canadian iron ore....

Pragmatism will rule the day. So relax you hand-wringers, we are being astute in our efforts.....