Cave paintings and jewelry deemed too old to be made by Homo Sapiens

It seems the more we discover about the Neanderthals the more we find out the were not just a bunch of brutish spear chucking, cold weather, guys who evidently had some females who homo-sapiens found attractive; if some of the latest ancestral homo sapien DNA results are to be believed.. Cave art and shells for adornment sounds like they were doing more than chasing a bunch of mega fauna around for supper..

“This is an incredibly exciting discovery which suggests Neanderthals were much more sophisticated than is popularly believed.”

The shell jewelry, found in Cueva de los Aviones, Cartagena, was dyed and pierced ready for adorning to other items or ‘stringing together’ is believed to date back 115,000 years.

The established archeological beliefs put these dates before modern humans were in the area.. So conclusion is.... it must have been the Neanderthals ?
www.theolivepress.es...

a reply to: 727Sky

Or maybe modern humans have been around much longer than we realize?

Nice find. Don't see why Neanderthal man couldn't have considering the following:
Oldest known cave paintings yield big surprise: Neanderthals may have been first artists

The cave art was made by Neanderthals, representing the first certain Neanderthal paintings ever discovered and suggesting that the modern human species didn’t invent creative expression, as previously thought, according to an article published Thursday in Science and Science Advances.

Source

Maybe instead it was another branch of Neanderthal(such as the more recent discovery of Denisovans) man remaining undiscovered or even another homo sapien branch unknown in their travels, or a mix of them-earlier mixture of the two.

a reply to: 727Sky

Check out the tag under my ats username.

Yea. We are Marshall.

History seems to teach that Neanderthals were nothing but a bunch a brainless oafs who hit each other across the head all the time.
That's just not true. As these caves paintings prove, they were alot more intelligent than history says. For some odd reason we don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that people of the past were just as smart as we are. They just lived in a different time.
Fascinating find.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: 727Sky

Or maybe modern humans have been around much longer than we realize?

Or maybe we exist in 3657 year cycles of organised Humanity....with ELE level events in between....and every cycle our conception and interpretation of TIMELINES is different...skewed....misaligned as we advance through every cycle.

Maybe we are giving a 3657 year cycle a multi-MILLION YEAR time quotient...mistakenly.

a reply to: one4all

That's a very specific number... Why?

a reply to: 727Sky

Interesting find although I never bought into the belief that Neanderthals were stupid and uncultured , here's some additional information and pictures from the teams pdf report.

The Neandertal-associated evidence from Cueva de los Aviones therefore substantially predates, by 20 to 40 ka, anything comparable known in Africa or western Asia to date. In conjunction with the evidence that cave painting in Europe dates back to at least 64.8 ka ago.

it leaves no doubt that Neandertals shared symbolic thinking with early modern humans and that, as far as we can infer from materialculture, Neandertals and early modern humans were cognitively
indistinguishable
advances.sciencemag.org...

a reply to: one4all

Why do we humans have to be so special?

I mean honestly... Think of the Fox. It's a Canid but at the same time unlike it's more common cousin the wolf. Wolves are not like Hyenas... Yet they all share on common thing, it's called ancestry. They share traits too.

Why do we humans have to be so different?

Hominids all shared a common ancestry, we have no evidence of a separate line. I think that common sense would have us consider that our "cousins" long gone shared extremely similar traits as us.

For at least 6 million years hominids have roamed this earth, apparently. I can only assume that their survivability was owed to their intelligence and adaptability.

It's not like we grew wings or developed potent venom. Stupid primates would've been walking sacks of meat. They clearly were not cattle, they were very successful... What else would explain the prevalence of hominid up until more recent history?

Our lineage is that of an apex predator, we're omnivores and we've seemingly always have been.

I'm not saying that your theory isn't true, I'm saying in the grand scheme of things it's seems to be irrelevant. Civilisation isn't what got us here, I don't believe gigantopithecus built cities and ape-made rivers.

I mean, it's a cool theory. The Sisyphos scenario... Proverbially pushing our civilization (rock) to the crest of the hill only to have it roll back down again.

But to believe that I'd have to kid myself that humans are not part of the animal kingdom, that we're special... I don't believe we were.

a reply to: 727Sky

Neanderthals will always be an enigma, could they be creators of culture as we know it?

The oldest art we know so far is from Australia, it could hint that there was interbreeding between "modern" man which has been theorized to have wiped out the neanderthal, or more interestingly was there a 'cultural exchange' between Neanderthals and modern man? did we share art with them or they with us?

Those pesky clever Neanderthals, they always throw a spanner in the cogs.

The neanderthals were "intelligent" also, perhaps more so than modern humans. There's no reason they couldn't have made paintings or jewelry.

Or some thing humans are to arrogant to admitted!
That the ones who made them do Not come
from any branch of the human tree!

originally posted by: buddha
Or some thing humans are to arrogant to admitted!
That the ones who made them do Not come
from any branch of the human tree!

Neaderthals brains were larger than modern day humans. But that might be due to more interconnects between brain regions, larger arteries, larger meninginal regions or more white matter. With modern day humans, the more you use a particular brain region, the denser it becomes. With taxi drivers, the hippocampus enlarges as they memorize all the different routes in a city.

Perhaps as hunter-gatherers, they memorized hundreds of square miles of land terrain, animal and weather sounds, best hunting strategies for each area, where to find shelter, fish, building materials, other hunter-gatherers would would frequent that area.

a reply to: rhynouk

Agreed, stopped drinking the Koolaid long ago...

"Primitive Man never existed, and there never was a Stone Age. They are nothing more than deceptive interpretations of (Neanderthal Findings) by Evolutionist." THE NEPHILIM WERE MORE "INTELLIGENT" THAN HUMANS. So the Word "Primitive" is an Understatement. The Size of their Brains Reveal they were Super-Intelligent The Stone Age Deception

By the way, Neanderthals were not emerging primitives. That’s fiction. They had a skull capacity larger than that of modern man. Classic descriptions of so-called Neanderthal man were based in large part on the skeletal remains of a man suffering from severe osteoarthritis. He had degenerated. In fact, there are folk who would pass for Neanderthals, alive today. Aliens The Deadly Secret (Page 347)

Dr. Jack Cuozzo shows how many Neanderthal fossils have been tampered with to support the theory of evolution. One of the many fraudulent things that people have done to the Neanderthal skulls is to reconstruct the lower jaw in a forward protruding position. This is based on the preconceived notion, that Neanderthal was dimwitted, and ape-ish. The jaw is purposely manipulated to look this way in reconstruction’s, because that is how some ape jaws are aligned.

Of the thousands of people who have seen Neanderthal skulls in a museum, I wonder how many of them knew the jaw had been altered? Dr. Cuozzo adds: "The exact same thing happened with the famous La Chapelle-aux-Saints skull and jaws" The La Quina V skull has also been altered. Now look to see what somebody did to the chin. They cut it off to make it look more like an apes chin. They then smoothed it all out with a plastic material.

Neanderthals: Caveman or Human?
Neanderthal fraud discovered by Dr. Jack Cuozzo

"About every few years they come out with the new missing link, only to find out the link is either another species or a fraud. And this happens over, and over, and over, and almost no one ever questions this, and joe public just believes what ever the news media tells them." What part of Evolution is a lie?

Neanderthal man cannot possibly be a missing link."These Neanderthals are just perfectly normal humans that are living to a really great age." See, before the Flood came, the people lived to be 900. But after the Flood, life spans dropped off to 400, and then 200, and then 100; but that's still a long time to live. And it's a simple fact the bones of your eyebrow ridge never stop growing. Jack Cuozzo

Professor Reiner Protsch was invited to date the famous skull, which he later pronounced to be the vital missing link between Neanderthals and modern humans. He dated the skull at 36,000 years old, allowing it to fall neatly into the evolutionists’ timeline between Neanderthals and modern man. For evolutionists, it was too good to be true. And indeed, it was. On February 18, 2005, Protsch was forced to retire in disgrace after a Frankfurt University panel ruled he had “fabricated data and plagiarized the work of his colleagues” Once believed to be a world-renowned expert on carbon dating, Protsch’s entire professional career is now being questioned. The university noted: “The commission finds that Prof. Protsch has forged and manipulated scientific facts over the past 30 years”. Neanderthal (another deliberate fraud)

I have read a lot of articles about Neanderthals being creative, making tools, and actually growing their own foods and storing them. I don't know where the idea that Neanderthals were not intelligent beings came from, probably something someone created out of thin air because they felt modern humans are the only thing that could be inteligent. How narrow minded those people who started that rumor were.

I have a little neanderthal in me, so does my wife. From what I read, most Europeans have some neanderthal genes, possibly from blending of modern humans and the neanderthals. Maybe they actually taught humans how to do things up in the areas with snow, then Humans probably killed them off after a while.

There is also blending of cromagnum in some human populations. Neither cromagnum or neanderthals are extinct, they are still alive in many of us humans. Maybe the pureblooded ones are gone, but there are still varying mixtures around the world.

I think that a lot of what is believed to be created by us, modern man, was actually made early by other hominids and since it was stone, it could last for a very long time, possibly being made many thousands of years earlier and prized and duplicated by modern humans. I think there was a very advanced civilization of beings before too. They may be extinct now, maybe their civilization was destroyed by a natural event or sickness, or maybe they are so advanced that they can cloak their civilization or they are just hippies living somewhere on an island or continent with advanced craft at their disposal. No aliens in my mind, homegrown super intelligent beings that broke off from our civilizations thousands of years ago. That is only a hypothesis I have though, something you could equate to people saying that neanderthals were not intelligent except for one thing, I say it is possible, I do not say it is real. I state it is a belief and do not try to create fiction....unless I call it fiction.

First of all "history" does not say that Neanderthals were stupid or brutes. Popular culture might, but that's hardly definitive. Secondly, Neanderthals were basically a northern offshoot of Homo sapiens. There's not that much difference. Indeed, some anthropologists do not even consider Neanderthal a separate species at all, labeling them Homo sapiens neanderthal compared to us: Homo sapiens sapiens. Third, anyone of European ancestry is part Neanderthal (and part Denisovan) anyway, from 2-4% each, which can be measured genetically with popular DNA kits, such as from the National Geographic "Genographic" project. Fourth, Neanderthals have long been associated with cultural artifacts that were not simply stone tools. They had jewelry, buried their dead, used fire, etc. In other words, this is really not as big a deal as people are making it out to be. It doesn't "change our view" of early man. To claim so is mere hyperbole of the ignorant.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Agreed, stopped drinking the Koolaid long ago...

Even though there is still Neanderthal DNA in our own genome ?, no Koolaid or opinion just science.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Murgatroid

Agreed, stopped drinking the Koolaid long ago...

Even though there is still Neanderthal DNA in our own genome ?, no Koolaid or opinion just science.

Neanderthals are what I call visual thinkers....they are Intuitive empaths by nature.....they have distinct physical traits....tangible ones which are of great advantage contrary to what some may believe and many groups seek out their DNA to ADD to their own Families like the Royal Family et al........