Woman killed after being bitten in throat by pet pit bulls

a reply to: crayzeed

I have a lab mix mutt we got at a shelter. She’s the sweetest thing. One time we took her to a family gathering for the weekend. She spent the whole day running outside, so she was exhausted. Later, she curled up on a couch to snooze and one of my nephews (he was about 12 at the time) squatted down and suddenly put his face right next to hers so he could pet her. It startled her, and she snapped at him pretty good right in his face. I felt bad, but had to warn him never to get in a dog’s face when they are sleeping/tired.

So yeah, any dog can snap at the right (wrong) moment.

You folks who are apologists for your beloved pit bulls need to be aware of the statistics. In a major longitudinal study covering 1982 to 2006, nearly 24 years, it clearly shows that dangerous dogs such as "pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings." In this study a cocker spaniel was responsible for one dog bite for the entire 24 years. Pit bull terriers, on the other hand, were responsible for 1,110, including 104 deaths. When are you pit bull apologists going to wake up and realize your macho tough dogs are dangerous to the rest of the population? Those interested in researching this issue should see www.dogbitelaw.com... and familiarize yourselves with the statistics. Nobody is 'singling out' pit bulls unfairly. They simply cause more damage. To defend these dogs in the face of this evidence is illogical and irresponsible. I just hope pit bull owners carry a lot of insurance.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Skywatcher2011

It is beyond unlikely that these dogs "Just snapped" all of a sudden, without provocation. All anecdotal evidence to the contrary is just that, anecdotal and therefore missing HUGE chunks of history, in terms of the living conditions and treatment of the animals in question.

Some breeds of dogs can just snap, they've been specifically breed to have a genetic predisposition to "just snapping".

My dad owned a doberman when I was a little kid... Which from what I've been told, was incredibly pampered and extremely well trained... Apparently, he could put food in his bowl and give him the command to sit next to his bowl... Then could go inside, get lost in a cricket game and totally forget all about him, then come back outside 2 hours later and find him still patiently sitting by his bowl, waiting to be given the command to eat his meal.

He even used to get us kids to regularly mess around with him, by just climbing over him or twisting his ears, or whatever... Just to ensure he'd be used to it and wouldn't act aggressively, just in case us kids played to roughly with him... You couldn't have had a more well treated & trained dog.

But, one day a neighbours kid was over at our house, who the dog was well acquainted with... Apparently, she poked a stick into his eye and the dog just snapped... Grabbed her by the head with his jaws and threw her off a set of stairs.

According to the paramedics, the only reason she didn't die, is because my old man got their in time and had the foresight to wrap a towel around her head, to prevent her from bleeding out... He then put Tristan (the name of the dog) in the car and drove her straight down to the vet, to have her put down... Which, was kinda a noble action... As much as I resent the old guy, it must have been a hard thing to take a pet dog that you've loved a nurtured since a pup to be put down, simply cause some spoiled little s# jabbed him in the eye with a stick.... But he didn't even hesitate and just did what had to be done.

But anyway, I'm procrastinating... The point being is, a Border Collie (for example), which was even half as trained as that doberman, would have just yelped and run away, if some stupid 4 year old kid poked him in the eye with a stick... But, a dog that has been specifically breed to be a guard/fighting dog will most likely "just snap" and attack...

a reply to: schuyler

I suspect you are capable of a reasonable conversation, given your post history..

There are some good points in your post, however, when it comes to determining cause, it can only be done through extensive study. Nit of statistics or news reports, but the actual dogs themselves.

Now, to be clear, I am an unabashed apologist, but that only became true after working with thousands upon thousands (literally) of canines of all breeds. Interestingly, the most hostile tended to be some type of lab x heeler mix, though that's only tangential.

Anyway, many of the breeds that fall under the "pit bull" blanket term were indeed bred for fighting other dogs. In the infancy of this "sport" it wasn't to the death as most know it to be now, though it was still certainly brutal.

In order to cater the genes to this purpose, they were bred for dog aggression without human aggression or redirection of any kind. The handler needed to be able to go in and grab their dog without any chance of redirection. This is very specific, specialized behavior that had many intended and unintended consequences.

Fast forward to today, where a large segment of prospective owners want them for human aggression. A properly bred "pit bull" is completely ill-suited for this, and there are only two ways to change that: behavior modification (i.e abuse) and breeding, both of which will need to go against many, many generations of well-established genetic profiles. These competing, highly conflicted behavioral, genetic profiles lead to.. well.. what we have today. AFAIK, its the only example of selective breeding that is not only against well established genes, but in direct conflict with them.

In my opinion, the domesticated canine is our most long term and deliberate glimpse into eugenics. There is a responsibility there, with severe consequences for getting it wrong. This is also one of those topics where many think they are an expert. Its fascinating how some topics precipitate that behavior and others don't, but obviously that's a completely separate discussion.

TL;DR: The situation we see today is the direct result of breeding for deeply conflicting genetic and behavioral profiles. With blatantly predictable result in absolutely any breed. The solution isnt to make the end result more taboo through banning and making them pariahs, since that directly contributes to the intent of the improper breeding.

The ideal goal would be to educate about proper breeding, and instill the proper outlook on the responsibility that bestows.. but we probably all know how unlikely that is.

Honestly, I'm not sure what the best approach might be, but I do think there are things that should be avoided. Essentially, we are dealing with two divergent profiles of the "same" breeds. One of which has behavioral profiles that are in massive, direct conflict which leads to unstable personalities at the very least.

a reply to: schuyler

Yeah, but my rottweiler is cool, your cocker is ugly and always has eye burgers.

a reply to: Skywatcher2011

I really do not give a damn, but i will say this.


My pit has been attacked 5 times by other off leash dogs,(Rottweiler,american akita...) when i have been walking my dog, (always on leash) in the street, they have bit my dog badly, and the funny thing is, that my dog has never even attempted to bite the attacking dogs.

Its always my job to beat the living (SNIP) of all hostile creatures, that try to cause harm to me or my property.

-Edit, and about those statistics, how frigging many pit bulls are there? Of course its shows up, there are just so damn many of them.

a reply to: solve

My rottweiler has been attacked by a pitbull, it went straight for his face.

Rotts are not dog aggressive.

Akitas are known to be though, they have major pack instincts and try to be the alpha.

a reply to: Mandroid7

Please, you clearly know nothing about dogs, or even about mammals apparently, every species on this earth has great potential for being violent and aggressive.


Just saying, i do not want to pick a fight with you, have a beer,

a reply to: solve

Yeah I've only been training hunting dogs for about 20 years now.

Give me an emotional lesson dog pro.

a reply to: Skywatcher2011

I just hate how judgemental people get when it comes to dogs. Our family was ready for a dog and we visited a shelter. 99% of dogs were pits or pit mixes. We were not interested in that breed, and our homeowners insurance goes up with what they consider "high risk breeds". After a few months the shelter had a gorgeous little non pit puppy, we went in right away to adopt her, surprise surprise, the shelter said she wasnt available for adoption. It was a totally bait and switch. They only had pits again, and one chow that has some serious issues. We finally just said forget the shelters and adopted a little non shedding fru fru dog for our family. She is super smart, healthy and everything a family dog could possible be. I get really irritated when anyone says, Oh why would you buy a dog when you could adopt one!!

a reply to: solve

The only violence these dogs produce towards humans will be at the hands of the owner.

They have failed to socialize them. The process had to happen as a pup, or you are in for a problem animal.

I'm not looking for a fight either, but this anti breed s$#! needs to stop.

I know my breed is next in line for the bs.

People that want vanity dogs are the problem.

As a responsible rott owner, one of the requirements to have a well adjusted dog is to socialize it at least 4-5 times per week as a pup.

You can ease up after a few years, but it really does take that kind of work, or you will have a liability on your hands.

Not many people can hold a job and put the required time into training.

The dogs are too much for them, so they end up getting adopted and end up attacking people.

All of these dogs are animals first, and need training to be in society.

a reply to: Mandroid7

Funny, i train search and rescue dogs, have seen all breeds from spaniels to giant mastiffs. Every breed has almost the same potential towards one way or another.

Only ones that differ, i must say, are tiny dogs, man, they crazy.

a reply to: Skywatcher2011

This is an old story and the dogs in question had many problems. Most notably was that they had been bred and fought in their past. She had rescued dogs who had been tought to fight. In the weeks before this attack, she had them penned up outside and basically abandoned. Her dad was supposed to be feeding them, but he neglected them all together. When she showed up, they hadn’t eaten or seen anyone for many days.

This isn’t just because they are pit bull dogs. This could happen with any animal. Pit bulls are claimed to have a specific trigger that can make them “switch” or “turn” but, that is just not supported by observations. They do seem to be involved with a lot of attacks, but they are not the number 1.

I think they are just a popular breed with those who are more interested in the imagery created by owning a vicious looking dog. They are certainly more popular with people who want a fighting dog. Meanwhile, there are plenty of pitts who are in loving homes and have had no issues at all.

My point is that if a person trains a golden retriever (considered one of the best temperaments) to fight. It will fight. But people choose pitts.

a reply to: Mandroid7

Haahaa so you are only worried about what comes after they have destroyed all the pits in the world..

I am glad that we can have this conversation without that much increase in our blood pressure.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Man i think you are going to love European "statistics", you have to believe it, its science!

Goldies are really high up there, depends on country.

a reply to: solve

I would love to train dogs for S&R that is awesome.

Very true indeed. A lot of dog on dog attacks happen because their owner thinks the dogs yapping is cute and harmless, but doesn't translate well in "dog speak".

I know I've only been attacked by to dogs in my life, a lab to the face and a cocker to the shin.

a reply to: solve

Yeah, I already deal with this crap daily at the dog beach. The people there always turn ghost white when my dog comes up.

Then, their dog tries to attack, he looks at them like their stupid, then the owners want to question me for an hour on how I trained him so well.

A pit bull just killed a full sized man here in KY.


news

a reply to: Woodcarver

Yes, and no imo.

Pits are crossed with terriers, which are dumb and aggressive.

That's where they get the clamp and headshake trait, as well as high prey drive towards movement.

These traits will be there like my rotts guarding instincts.

If you own one you should accept this trait, or you have a liability.

It is tragic this girl died, but she made a bad decision to adopt unknown dogs.

One of these dogs is beyond her physical control level, let alone 2 of them.

I don't know the answer, I don't want to see them killed in a shelter, or attacking people.

Maybe schools need to teach dog training along with safe firearm handling since these things aren't going anywhere in society.

originally posted by: Neopan100
A pit bull just killed a full sized man here in KY.


news

He died from a heart attack from the comotion of breaking up his 2 dogs fighting with each other.