Pro_Life Violence

Originally posted by saint4God
You shall not murder." (Exodus 20:13). That goes for pro-choice or pro-life. Why is this hard to understand?

[edit on 16-2-2005 by saint4God]

Actually, I believe the original Hebrew translation reads: "Thou shalt not kill with malice." But anyway, what does your religion have to do with anything? I mean, go to church, drink the blood of Christ, have fun. Just keep it to yourself. All of this diversity stuff is trying to normailize your lifestyle into the mainstream!

just some info on second trimester abortions. I think that it only is illegal to get abortions during the third trimester. but there are still procedures used to abort the "fetus" during the second trimester. here is a list of facilities that practice "late term abortion" of abortion during the second trimester.

Wow, he seemd to shut up pretty quick the second I posted links to his "heros" killing civillians.

Originally posted by fskebles
The fetus may even suck his thumb"just a source for my qoute...so do ordinary people "exist" and what is your definition on existence?

The site you provided seems to have heavy pro-life bias.. which could mean the information is innacurate. I'll try at a later stage find a medical site that is partial to neither pro-life/choice.. the sites I have seen thus far though seeem to contradict eachother on what are suppose to be the facts.

btw. I'm pretty sure late term abortions are usually performed for health reasons.
I can't imagine many women opting to do that for any other reason as they would have already bonded with the fetus/baby and it's more viable by that stage.

[edit on 19-2-2005 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
So you approve of terrorism? :shk:

LMAO! call it what ya want to. I will lose no sleep over any slut who gets murdered in her quest to murder an innocent child. I will lose no sleep over the death of any demonic doctor who makes his living murdering innocent children. I have no compassion for people who murder children.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Wow, he seemd to shut up pretty quick the second I posted links to his "heros" killing civillians.

LMAO! It took you 2 hours 41 minutes to respond. Forgive me for not waiting. You failed to answer if there was a such thing as a living zygote. You failed to link a hospital that was blown up. Appearantly the hospital was blown up in candyland.

Originally posted by riley
The site you provided seems to have heavy pro-life bias.. which could mean the information is innacurate.

Pretty tough show an inaccurate photo of a slaughtered child 5.5 months into gestation. Save your time. Nothing you can say can dispute those photos. Nothing.

Originally posted by Kinja
LMAO! call it what ya want to. I will lose no sleep over any slut who gets murdered in her quest to murder an innocent child.

So.. basically you are calling rape victims sluts, women who have life threatening pregnancies slut, young girls who were coerced by their bf to have abortions sluts, women with emotional issues sluts, women who have already had 5 kids and can't provide for them sluts.. and.. women who are simply going into a clinic to have untrasounds on babies they have no intention of aborting sluts.

Many of those clinics perform other services to pregnant women that are not abortions.

I will lose no sleep over the death of any demonic doctor who makes his living murdering innocent children. I have no compassion for people who murder children.

And by the sounds of you, you would still be spouting the same crap and STILL calling yourself a christian [which you obviously are not] even if your own finger were on the trigger about to shoot a receptionist.

Originally posted by Kinja
Pretty tough show an inaccurate photo of a slaughtered child 5.5 months into gestation. Save your time. Nothing you can say can dispute those photos. Nothing.

I'm not disputing the photos.
I am questioning at what stage of development they were taken at.

Ok, more stuff about violence from pro-lifers.

www.rickross.com...
www.atheistfoundation.org.au...
my.execpc.com...
This is basically Kinja's heros killing people and going to trial for it.
jameswickstrom.com...
www.thewandererpress.com...
www.commondreams.org...
www.cruxnews.com...

Wow, look at those heros........

You know, I thought I would ad this tale in here since we're talking about abortions and who's having abortions. A friend of mine recently found out his younger sister, whos had some run ins with the bad side of the law several times. Had not one, or two, but five abortions, by the age of 16 years old. Was she coerced by her boyfriend into having an abortion? Nope. Was she raped? Nope. Was the pregnancy life threatening? Nope. She simply didn't want to have them, and didnt like birth control.

Is that we're our society is headed? Where its easier to just get something taken care of instead of stopping it from happening? Does anybody really have any right to have a say in who lives, who dies, or who has the chance to live? Then again, aren't we overpopulated as it is? Theres where the problem lies. On one hand, we stop abortions, and peoples routines dont change, but instead the number of kids that are put up for adoption sky rockets. On the other hand, thousands of potential humans are shut down from being able to ever be born. So in the end, its a choice, the lesser of two evils. And as the saying goes, it is not better to have something and not need it, then to need it and not have it?

Originally posted by riley
And by the sounds of you, you would still be spouting the same crap and STILL calling yourself a christian [which you obviously are not] even if your own finger were on the trigger about to shoot a receptionist.

LOL the definition of Slut as I learned it, was, Immoral woman. If slut has evolved to have limited meaning thats your issue. Any woman having an abortion is immoral. Thus a Slut by my definition. Save the tears for the murdered children.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Ok, more stuff about violence from pro-lifers.

www.rickross.com...
www.atheistfoundation.org.au...
my.execpc.com...
This is basically Kinja's heros killing people and going to trial for it.
jameswickstrom.com...
www.thewandererpress.com...
www.commondreams.org...
www.cruxnews.com...

Wow, look at those heros........

Bark and cry and moan and groan... You cannot convince me that murdering children is a righteous thing to do. You will not cause me to feel compassion for those who are killed while conducting the business of slaughtering children for profit.

Originally posted by riley
What.. you don't think a woman should think about themselves and their own wellbeing?

I think they should, yes. I believe there are 2 lives here and both need consideration.

Originally posted by riley
You did that yourself.. I'm actually surprised at your lack of understanding for these women.

I have nothing but compassion for all people. I cannot prove that to you, only represent what I feel in words to the best of my ability.

Originally posted by riley

The problem here is there are two lives involved and some people believe there is only one. This is false.

I agree.. but the difference is one is a small under developed fetus completely dependent on a fully formed human being.

So you're saying the one who's life is a quarter over is more important than a life that has yet to begin? It is less important because it is dependent?

Originally posted by riley

By Declaration of Independence, each individual is promised life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Abortion is also a violation of the constitution.

Going by that.. so would forcing a woman to continue a pregnancy she is illequiped to deal with.

There are other options. My friend cannot have a baby despite numerous attempts and modern methods. She wants this more than anything and has so much love to give. Also, where is the rest of this family to support said pregnant woman who cannot 'deal with it'? Fragmented, right. That's another problem we have to fix. Finally, if a man throws his DNA into this, he should be jointed responsible at least fiscally. This whole 'get her pregnant and move on to the next because I am the alpha male' garbage has got to stop. We have ways of verifying DNA these days.

Originally posted by riley

Declaration of Independence: (omitted quote)

Whoa! unalienable right to Life? Wow. What a gift!

Constitution: (omitted quote)

Does that help?

Yeah it would help alot if I were actually an American.

You have a good point. I'm not qualified to speak on the laws of other countries nor would it be right for me to say 'All other countries should be run like the U.S.'

Originally posted by Kinja
LOL the definition of Slut as I learned it, was, Immoral woman. If slut has evolved to have limited meaning thats your issue.

Yeah right- it's pretty obvious what context you meant it in.

Any woman having an abortion is immoral. Thus a Slut by my definition. Save the tears for the murdered children.

A woman who has an abortion for health reasons is not immoral.. and a rape vitim is not immoral. If you were to physically force her to carry that child YOU would be just as immoral as the rapist.. likewise a woman who cannot carry a child fullterm for whatever health reason. This aside.. christianity does not have a monopoly on morality.. and as for yourself.. going by what jesus taught.. 'He' would not condone mudering doctors or pregnant women.. but you do.. which makes you unchristian and IMMORAL anyway.

[edit on 20-2-2005 by riley]

Originally posted by curme
Actually, I believe the original Hebrew translation reads: "Thou shalt not kill with malice."

Thanks. I don't read Hebrew and appreciate any clarifications. Is there another way to kill besides with malice? Didn't Jesus say to love? How does one love and kill at the same time?

Originally posted by curme
But anyway, what does your religion have to do with anything? I mean, go to church, drink the blood of Christ, have fun. Just keep it to yourself. All of this diversity stuff is trying to normailize your lifestyle into the mainstream!

I wouldn't give 2 rat droppings about the mainstream or normalization. I never had it so why would I start now? The scripture is chock full of good ideas. If you think about them, they make sense. Sense is what our world needs. If you don't want to hear it, there is that thing called an 'ignore' button. I don't feel I push my ideas on anyone or make anyone believe anything. In fact, I can't! You get to post the same number and length of posts as I do.

Originally posted by Kinja

Originally posted by riley
So you approve of terrorism? :shk:

LMAO! call it what ya want to. I will lose no sleep over any slut who gets murdered in her quest to murder an innocent child. I will lose no sleep over the death of any demonic doctor who makes his living murdering innocent children. I have no compassion for people who murder children.

Dude, I cannot believe you honestly feel this way. Hopefully you're just angry at riley or something. Bearing the cross on your avatar picture I hope you believe in God. If so, please pray about this.

Pray, train, study.
God bless.

I guess I was a bit optimistic that anyone here, with claims of aligning themselves to the teaching of Jesus, would advocate bombing a clinic. Well, I guess though in small percentage, the posts here reveal something . I'll take this as a lesson tonight.

(pssst, however I'm still pro-life )

Originally posted by saint4God
Thanks. I don't read Hebrew and appreciate any clarifications. Is there another way to kill besides with malice? Didn't Jesus say to love? How does one love and kill at the same time?

Quick lesson for your selective observance of biblical teachings. Jesus was all about loving thy neighbor. However, You ask how can you love and kill at the same time. By your expressed understanding, its no killing whatsoever, not under any circumstance. This is wrong. Your understanding of teaching has a minor flaw. Self defense allows killing. Defending an infant would most definitely justify killing. Abortion doctors and the women ordering the murder of children would be justified. Imagine if you will, your flawed perspective of Jesus and his apostles, Why would Jesus who is anti killing by your "claim", allow his disciples to carry swords. Just in case they find a fish or loaf of bread in the garden at night? Here in Matthew, a disciple drew his sword and defended Jesus by cutting off the ear of one of the Jewish priests servants who came to arrest Jesus.

Matthew 26:51 - And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.

Matthew 26:52 - Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

You cannot have it both ways. Thou shalt not kill was not meant for defense or Justice. In response to the actions of his disciple, Jesus' words were essentially 'live by the sword die by the sword.' there was no recitation of the laws given to Moses by God.

Originally posted by Kinja
Quick lesson for your selective observance of biblical teachings. Jesus was all about loving thy neighbor. However, You ask how can you love and kill at the same time. By your expressed understanding, its no killing whatsoever, not under any circumstance. This is wrong.

Perhaps. I'm not saying I'm absolutely right, I can only say what I've experienced, felt, read, discussed and understood. I see no resolution killing.

Originally posted by Kinja
Your understanding of teaching has a minor flaw. Self defense allows killing.

thelibra and I had this discussion before. I'd come to the conclusion, given the situation, I would use non-lethal force. I could not kill someone.

Originally posted by Kinja
Defending an infant would most definitely justify killing. Abortion doctors and the women ordering the murder of children would be justified. Imagine if you will, your flawed perspective of Jesus and his apostles, Why would Jesus who is anti killing by your "claim", allow his disciples to carry swords.

Did JESUS carry a sword? Am I to follow Jesus or his followers?

Originally posted by Kinja
Just in case they find a fish or loaf of bread in the garden at night?

God only knows. He made buds with all sorts of peeps, sword carrying and not.

Originally posted by Kinja
Here in Matthew, a disciple drew his sword and defended Jesus by cutting off the ear of one of the Jewish priests servants who came to arrest Jesus.

Right! And let's see what Jesus had to say about it... (thanks for including the quotes by the way):

Originally posted by Kinja
Matthew 26:51 - And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.

Ouch! Is that right? Hm...

Originally posted by Kinja
Matthew 26:52 - Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place:

What translation are you using? Mine says (NIV Matt 26:52): "Put your sword back in its place". I don't think he meant that the sword's place is skewered into the servant's body, do you? Besides, Jesus was willingly taken captive. The Son of God did not do anything to defend himself and questioned why the priests bothered bringing servants with weapons. Read on, there's more to that story.

Originally posted by Kinja
for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Aka, if you pick up a gun, expect a gunfight. Again, Jesus was unarmed.

Originally posted by Kinja
You cannot have it both ways.

I agree. There is only one way. No killing.

Originally posted by Kinja
Thou shalt not kill was not meant for defense or Justice. In response to the actions of his disciple, Jesus' words were essentially 'live by the sword die by the sword.' there was no recitation of the laws given to Moses by God.

What about Jesus saying that he was not here to abolish the law, but to fulfill it? How about the sermon where he spoke of the greatest commandment(s), where all the laws and prophets were included within it. Jesus was not the 'abolisher of Mosaic Law', he explained the meaning behind the law.

I'm wishing for dispute, I just want you to kick out that anger and hatred and replace it with the love that Jesus talked about over and over again. I'd quote it to make my case as you were working to do above, but I'm sure the mods and people here would tire of reading four books of gospel.

[edit on 20-2-2005 by saint4God]