Pro_Life Violence

Originally posted by Jakko
You know that the bible never actually says you are going to hell if you do do not believe in God.
The bible says there is no other way to heaven and God than through Jesus Christ. That's quite a difference.

It doesnt matter what the bible has in it, its what is translated over and preached.







[edit on 15-3-2005 by SpittinCobra]

Originally posted by riley
It is your job to filter out the distructive lunatics from your religion [to protect it] so they do not harm society.. if you do not.. non christians will.

That's nonsense.
It is not my job to filter anything. There will always be people who try to harm society, either in the name of some God or in the name of money/greed/lust. I don't have the illusion that I can stop this.

All I can do is help where I can, and gove my opinion where I can, and pray where I can. But most of all be open to other points of view. I am probably not 100% right about everything either, and as long as everyone realizes this for himself, we can at least try to learn from eachother.

Originally posted by saint4God
I'm surprised a company...er... I mean agency hasn't thought of meeting
this demand by included international children on their adoption list. I'd
also be interested in what figures would result if all the aborted childred
were given to adoption instead. Lots to chew on. Thanks again.

There are a lot of adoption agencies that specialize in overseas adoptions.
Mostly because of a lack of availability of babies here in America. Most
are non-profit. Our adoption agency is out of Birmingham AL - Villa Hope is
it's name (google them up). They have some domestic adoptions, but most
of their adoptions are from China (where baby girls are left to die -
infanticide - which is the next step after abortion), Peru, Bolivia, and Mexico. Mexico, Peru, and Bolivia have an almost non-exhistant abortion
rate. There are many, many children and babies being adopted from
there. In China, women who want their baby to have a chance at life, will
abandon their daughters in an orphanage, knowing that Americans go to
China to adopt. Other adoption agencies specialize in adoptions from
the Philippines and Korea - both countries with low abortion rates.

The only exception to this is the Russian/Ukraine adoptions. There is a
BIG abortion rate in that area of the world. One study I read a few years
ago suggested that the average Russian woman has 6 abortions in her
lifetime. There are children available for adoption from this area. Not as
many as the other countries, but there are some.

'Interrupted adoptions' happen more often with children adopted from
the Russian/Ukraine area. 20% are 'interrupted'. This means that the
child and parents didn't bond and there are severe behavioral problems
with the children and they have to be institutionalized. Most interrupted
adoptions happen with children from the Russian/Ukraine area.
I don't know why.

Anyways - our non-profit adoption agency is - Villa Hope. The big adoption
agency for Korea is HOLT. Both can be googled and you can take a look
at their programs and costs.

ADOPTION IS THE OPTION.

(Adoption is the reason I had big hopes for John McCain being president
or vice president. He has 6 or 7 children. His youngest was adopted from
an orphanage in India run by Mother Teresa. I think with him in the White
House, or in the #2 spot, perhaps adoption costs could be looked at and
hopefully reduced somehow.)



[edit on 3/15/2005 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Jakko
You know that the bible never actually says you are going to hell if you do do not believe in God.
The bible says there is no other way to heaven and God than through Jesus Christ. That's quite a difference.

You do not have to choose God or not before you die, which leads me to believe you somehow will still be able to choose for God after you die.
The only thing is that God loves you and that God wants a bond with you while you're still alive, rather than when your life is over.

I'd like to pursue this topic if you don't mind Jakko. I've had somewhat the same impression from my readings. What about the judgement? I hear that's not going to be easy at all, especially if you reject God and his Son in this life. Anyone can believe what they see, but it takes a true act of faith to believe what you don't see. As my public school Chemistry teacher said, "what you can't see is real". Thinking about that really changes one's paradigm. I believe Christians are 'saved' from that judgement in addition to Hell. There's a few spots where it talks about judgement if you'd like me to include.

I learned a lot from your post. I was very surprised to learn the enormous abortion rates in other countries. Hopefully this will be an encouraging message for mothers needing options. There are some who feels giving up a child for adoption is worse than terminating.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
ADOPTION IS THE OPTION.

Sounds like a bumpersticker! Maybe it'll become a catch-phrase and help some people out.

Well saint, what about when the christian who "shares" his religion does this in the most retarded way possible?
The listener would surely reject God, based on the flawed info he gets, but if the listener would truly know what christianity is about the listener would choose for God at once.

I believe God, in his infinite wisdom, understand such situations as well.
I don't know how God did it, but I am quite sure the rules and laws in His system cover every exception, every extreme and every situation in a righteous way.

Originally posted by Jakko
Well saint, what about when the christian who "shares" his religion does this in the most retarded way possible?
The listener would surely reject God, based on the flawed info he gets, but if the listener would truly know what christianity is about the listener would choose for God at once.

I believe God, in his infinite wisdom, understand such situations as well.
I don't know how God did it, but I am quite sure the rules and laws in His system cover every exception, every extreme and every situation in a righteous way.

I think you answered the question the same way I would have. God knows what is being rejected and why *nods*. Still there are those who choose to reject God because of God. That's what I'm thinking won't bode well with the One at the grand stadium even after that unbeliever gets there and says, "Oops! I believe now! Can I have a ticket for the big show?" In that case, there will probably be a 'sold out' sign hanging there for that individual.

[edit on 15-3-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by riley
It is your job to filter out the distructive lunatics from your religion [to protect it] so they do not harm society.. if you do not.. non christians will.

That's nonsense.

What is nonsence is trying to palm of people's defensive reactions to fundy's hate rhetoric as anti-christian biggotry.

It is not my job to filter anything. There will always be people who try to harm society, either in the name of some God or in the name of money/greed/lust. I don't have the illusion that I can stop this.

When people do it in the name of your relgion you should.. I was raised christian and know what 'the word' is.. it's meant to promote love. If you see a few misguided 'sheep' perhaps you should look to your own ranks to lead them back. They are more dangerous than non believers.

Originally posted by Jakko
You know that the bible never actually says you are going to hell if you do do not believe in God.
The bible says there is no other way to heaven and God than through Jesus Christ. That's quite a difference.

You do not have to choose God or not before you die, which leads me to believe you somehow will still be able to choose for God after you die.
The only thing is that God loves you and that God wants a bond with you while you're still alive, rather than when your life is over.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Originally posted by jake1997
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Being condemned is something else than going to hell.
And this doesn't say anything about having to do all this before you die.

Originally posted by riley
What is nonsence is trying to palm of people's defensive reactions to fundy's hate rhetoric as anti-christian biggotry.

Uhm???
Listen it's really not that hard to flame christianity all together when an idiot who calls himself christian shows up, but if you want to use your brains a littlebit more you could also just wonder wether the person in question is really speaking from his religion or his ignorance.
It takes some thought, I know.

When people do it in the name of your relgion you should.. I was raised christian and know what 'the word' is.. it's meant to promote love. If you see a few misguided 'sheep' perhaps you should look to your own ranks to lead them back. They are more dangerous than non believers.

Lead them back?
I wish it was that simple. Some sheep don't really want to be led back by me, simple as that. And it is not my responsibility to make every idiot in the world aware of his/her own idiocy.
All I can do is share my point of view, and if that doesn't do it then too bad.

How is history christian bashing? How is naming off the dif. Inquisitions, Crusades, Trials, Massacers, Slaughters, causing the Dark Ages, how is that christian bashing? I think that is called history lesson...... Thank PP for Islam, sure they have become almost as corrupt as the Church, but hell, back then they did something good.

The Crusades were religon based, as I said, on corrupted religon, but hell, Christianity has been corrupted since Jesus died.

Also, mentioning how the church covered/hide facts/child rapists isn;t bashing, it's the truth!!!!!! But FINALLY a Bishop came and apologized for the actions, and said the victims should be praised for their courage to come out against the rapists. Sure he waited until documents were found that proved the church was hiding several child rapists, and one who killed a nun when she caught him.

Anyways, on topic, a church shooting happened, thought maybe the pro-choice people were finally standing up for themselves, but nope, just some nutcase. So, real people dead count is.... PC-0, PL-30,000 and rising......

Oh yea! That woman who killed her kid for being satan, or Yates who killed her kids for satan was gonna get them or something, so again, how many Jews have killed their kids for being satan?

BTW: I ignore Jestaman, I don't read what he posts, not clicking ignore button for I consider that weak. Along with Kinja, btw, where did he go?

hmmm...pro-choice ppl already commcit their acts of violence upon unborned children... i think scrapping them out of a wumb, flushing them out with salt, lettin them born to their sholders and then suck their brains out with a needle....seems violent enough to me.... but thats just me ...and what the heck do i know anyway right ???

"Power to the People...Save the Dolphins.... but abort the
Children..."...


and by the way... I am not a christian and I am not totally Pro-Choice either... i think abortion is the last resort... it is beeing OVER-USED AND ABUSED... and yes ...women (like myself) do have the right to choose, choose between what kind of Contraceptive they should use...Abortion should not be use as a contraceptive method... there is NO EXCUSE for the millions of babies killed around the world under the "women choice" balloney... Besides cases of rape, incest, abuse of extreme deformaties i see no point for abortion...and im not waving a Bible in my hand...

and i could be alot more rude, but theres no point or need...

[edit on 15-3-2005 by BaastetNoir]

Saint Bartholemew’s Day Massacre,
August 24 1572

Slaughter of some 3,000 Protestants (Huguenots)
in Paris, more than 20,000 elsewhere in France.

23,000 of people of my faith died . Jumped the poor guys in the middle of the night when they were asleep. Was this a war about religion? Nope. Do I blame the faith that enacted this? Nope. It was about 1 King and 1 Law. Being Protestant just painted the target, but they were not killed because of religious decree in scripture. In fact, if you bend the spine of the Book that founded Christianity, I'm sure you'll be surprised to see the command was to "love your enemy" AND "love your neighbor". Does that sound like the word "war" to anyone?

Candidly, this whole "Christianity is responsible for every death" bit is not only is full of holes, it's a sunken ship.

How do you know it was sunken? If it was in the Bermuda Triangle it could have been taken by aliens......

Yes, it doesn't make sense, but christians still blame the Jews for killing Jesus, so when the last of them stop blaming the Jews, we can stop blaming the Church for doing what it did, at least the christianity part. The church is christianity while christianity is not the chruch, but it is what controls it. Church says kill all Jews, all Jews will be killed. Church says use condoms, condoms will be used. Church says Genesis means this, then that is what Genesis means. The church is christianity, christianity isn't the church.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
How do you know it was sunken? If it was in the Bermuda Triangle it could have been taken by aliens......

LOL! Thanks

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Church says kill all Jews, all Jews will be killed.

Ack! Then it'd be time to switch churches. I know a nice one right down the street that goes by the Book. Did I mention they have a good band?

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Church says use condoms, condoms will be used.

Now that I think of it, I don't recall the church mentioning anything about it. Probably because the Bible doesn't talk about the relationship between condoms and salvation.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Church says Genesis means this, then that is what Genesis means. The church is christianity, christianity isn't the church.

If we were all physically blind, could not read braille, nor had access to the Bible on CD, then I think you'd have a good point. The church gets an hour of our time. How many hours does a Christian read the Book on their own? Well, that'll tell you what proportion of a Christian's knowledge is by reading vs. hearing as well as how effective the church is at getting you to study on your own. I know there are 'Sunday Only Christians' but notice they get put into quote marks? It's like saying I'm a Nascar driver because I watch it on tv.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
christians still blame the Jews for killing Jesus

Wrong.

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by riley
What is nonsence is trying to palm of people's defensive reactions to fundy's hate rhetoric as anti-christian biggotry.

Uhm???
Listen it's really not that hard to flame christianity all together when an idiot who calls himself christian shows up, but if you want to use your brains a littlebit more you could also just wonder wether the person in question is really speaking from his religion or his ignorance.
It takes some thought, I know.

Except, as I said before it's not just 'an' idiot.. there are several that troll around here using the bible to hate. I think they are ignorant of morality yes.. but considering they know the bible I wouldn't call them ignorant of it. I think the reason they follow in the first place is for 'moral power' not christ.. christ promoted love not hate [but admitedly when you point this out; they run to the OT over-rule it because they actaully like hating].

Lead them back?
I wish it was that simple. Some sheep don't really want to be led back by me, simple as that. And it is not my responsibility to make every idiot in the world aware of his/her own idiocy.
All I can do is share my point of view, and if that doesn't do it then too bad.

Thats all you have to do.. to turn a blind eye to woman bashing because they are 'on the same side' [prolife] only encourages them.

Originally posted by BaastetNoir
hmmm...pro-choice ppl already commcit their acts of violence upon unborned children...

AGAIN
Pro-choice does NOT mean pro-abortion.. it just means not imposing morals on others.

choose between what kind of Contraceptive they should use...Abortion should not be use as a contraceptive method...

Agreed- there needs to be much more focus on teaching teenagers how to use contraception effectively so it does not fail.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Church says use condoms, condoms will be used.

Now that I think of it, I don't recall the church mentioning anything about it. Probably because the Bible doesn't talk about the relationship between condoms and salvation.

Well .... not directly. Onanism is why many don't practice contraception.
It's in the old testament - I don't have the exact scripture quote in front
of me so ya'll will have to google up onanism to look it up. But to
paraphrase - God said that for humans to 'spill their seed' would mean
eternal death (hell). And since God is the same always, never changing,
when God says that something is a sin and punishable by death and hell,
then that sin is always a sin punishable by death and hell. That's the
thought process behind Onanism. Something that was that big of a sin
a thousand years ago wouldn't suddenly become acceptable now. That
wouldn't be just to those who went to hell for breaking that law of God's
a thousand years ago.

I know the Catholic church subscribes to this, but I also know many
Presbyterians and others who follow this thought process as well.
It's not just a 'Catholic' thing.