How I prove God exists.

originally posted by: Tempter
But if 95% of the world agreed on anything else like they do in a Creator then it would be considered fact, right?

Believing in God is nearly universal yet unprovable, for now.

100% of people view matter as solid even though we have thoroughly proved it to be mostly nothing.
Perhaps god is the same sort of useful delusion.

The need for god is a question that cannot be ignored, I answer it differently...

I think it comes down to human's ability to plan conversations in advance.
We have to simulate people and their responses in our heads, it's not a huge leap from imaginary people you know to imaginary people you don't.

a reply to: DpatC

The content of your post is similar to Buddhist teachings. Put simply, when we are born we see the true miracle before us but as we get older, our ego kicks in and starts classifying everything in this world in relationship to our self. So when we call a bird, "a bird", we no longer see the true bird but a representation of the bird as a label in our brain. And if that bird benefits us or not.

A lot of people of faith also see GOD as a label. Their ego wants to know if that label (GOD) benefits us or not (Heavon or Hell). That is the brick wall that will stop people from realizing GOD, Their ego.

originally posted by: DpatC
I apologize for the length of this but please read in its entirety. I was forwarded this a few weeks ago and well seems kinda relevant to this thread.

I liked that, but what happens next?

STUDENT: Hey professor, what are you doing in the unemployment line?

PROFESSOR: They thought I was victimising people in my class because of their religion so they fired me. What are you doing in the unemployment line?

STUDENT: I flunked out, I probably should have listened to my professors.

My proof of God comes from my experiences with Him, beginning when I was an aggressive agnostic. I only believed what I saw and thought that when a person dies they ceased to exist. I could tell you at great length all about those experiences but wouldn't expect anyone to believe it since they were not there. Have hope though, as we are given the ability to gain our own proof of God by going to Him directly (James 1:5). Sometimes the lines of communication aren't working so well. If that's the case, send me a message and I can try to help. Or, if you just want to talk about what you've come to believe and why, that's cool too.

If dialogue isn't your thing, the link I have in my signature line gives some background information about Jesus Christ and why his presence is important.

originally posted by: craterman
If God does indeed exist, it is a certainty that He wishes to remain hidden. So why in the world would anyone look for proof of God's existence with His material creation??
But, his handy work is all around us, some recognize it right away, others say it is all a grand eternal accident (very much knowing that accidents do not create structure, but destroy it) and deny God.
Another thing is certain, your, his, hers, mine and any opinions about the matter, plays no role in the truth of the matter.

There is one sign of a God, or a creator. That is, for a creator of Earth.

And everyone recognized it as a sign of creation. It was mentioned in the Bible, as well.


The sign of a creator is right above us, every day, and every night.


Both Sun and moon together, are the sign of a God, a creator.




Compare any other planets to Earth, first of all.

They have moons, of course, like Earth does.

They also have the Sun, right?

And the Sun is supposed to be 93 million miles from Earth, right?

And our moon is supposedly just 240,000 miles from Earth, right?


They are also the only two celestial bodies directly above Earth.

When the two celestial bodies eclipsed, perfectly, it was a universal sign, for all people to see, of creation.


There cannot be two celestial bodies above us that could fit perfectly, as one. If you think this can be all from random chance, think again.

What are the chances of two celestial bodies being the exact same size? Or nearly the same size?

From all of the celestial bodies within our solar system, none are the exact same size. Only a few, very tiny, moons..might get close in size, but nowhere close to a perfect match!


So Earth has only two celestial bodies, among the virtually countless others in the galaxy. No other celestial bodies in the solar system are the same size, only the two above Earth.

What do you suppose the odds of this happening by random chance?

Just from the other celestial bodies in our solar system, there are no two, other than Earth's two, which are even close to being the same size. Yet, Earth has two which are the EXACT same size!

The odds of it being random are extremely small, from that alone..


But the clincher is that they ALIGN perfectly, too!

The Sun and moon are the only celestial bodies above Earth, among millions, of all sizes, and shapes, and they just happen to be the exact same size, and shape, and they align perfectly as one.

It is their perfect alignment that shows us they are the exact same size.

No more lucky coincidences and random chance.



Btw - the Sun and moon ARE the exact same size, align perfectly, above Earth, which indicates there IS a God, or creator.


Then we were all told the Sun was NOT at all the exact same size an the moon. Not at all. It just LOOKS like they are the same size, from Earth! The Sun is much, much larger than the moon, in 'fact'. It is also much, much, further away from Earth than the moon is, and THAT'S why they appear - only on Earth - to be the exact same size!

They didn't have any explanation for how one of them 93 million miles away could align perfectly with another one only 240,000 miles away, however. So it's never really mentioned.



The purpose of this ridiculous story is to make us forget about God, as our creator.

We came from pond scum, billions of years ago. We used to be apes, but we 'evolved' into humans, over a few more millions of years. Every form of life was created out of pond scum, too! It just happened by random chance!

Everything happens randomly, over 'millions/billions of years'.


Nobody knows who built the Great Pyramids, but they sure know all life was first created millions of years ago, with pond scum!!

a reply to: Pachomius

Dear Misterlondon, let us work as to concur on what is proof and what is opinion. As you bring up the word opinion, certainly you have a concept of what is opinion, so let us all here dear colleagues read from Mister his concept of what is opinion. I will from my part proffer my concept of what is proof.

Instead of confusing readers and trying to redefine words why not just use the already existing definitions of these words, opinion and proof?

a reply to: turbonium1

They are also the only two celestial bodies directly above Earth.

What does this even mean?


everything we see in the sky is directly above the earth in all directions, every star, planet, moon. etc.

What are the chances of two celestial bodies being the exact same size? Or nearly the same size?

earth and Venus and close in size.


So you have one example there in just our own solar system, with the number of galaxies housing 1000 of others systems I would say its quite common to find 2 celestial bodies that are similar in size.

What do you suppose the odds of this happening by random chance?

the eclipse, the odds are phenomenal seeing as it will only be visible for a certain period of time until the moon drifts further out and eclipses wont be possible.

So Earth has only two celestial bodies, among the virtually countless others in the galaxy.

WTF


I can see with my naked eye 1000s of celestial objects every night, yes these are all in our Galaxy.

No other celestial bodies in the solar system are the same size, only the two above Earth.

Yes they are, going by your logic, all the starts are the same size, 1000s of them, they ll look the same size, some a little bigger than others which is why they seem brighter.

It is their perfect alignment that shows us they are the exact same size.

Oh I get it, flat earth.

The purpose of this ridiculous story is to make us forget about God, as our creator.

and yet more than 2/3rds of the worlds population still worship one God or another.

Yeah humans have forgotten.

a reply to: Realtruth

Where in my example of dropping a ball, proving that gravity is real and a measurable force, did my senses fail me?

Yes you listed HOW senses can fail - but in the experiment I listed, how were my senses deceived such that the proven force of gravity is, in fact, not real and I was "deceived".

originally posted by: Pachomius
1. I define God as in concept first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.
2. So I search for everything with a beginning to its existence.
3. And I find everything I experience to be in existence having a beginning to its existence.
4. There, that is the evidence of God existing, in concept as first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.
5. Wherefore God exists, in concept as first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

if he causes everything that has a beginning, how exactly did he cause himself?

also, the ontological argument is not as foolproof as you make it sound.

ontological disproof

a reply to: TzarChasm

I don't like politics and religion.
But... I see how marvelous a woman is and totally break down into believing in God and his craft.
Absolutely genius...

a reply to: Woodcarver

Then that force, the most fundamental one, is God!

Not complicated!

To a computer, the 120v power supply is God.

God is not an output. It is the most fundamental input from which all other inputs originate. As long as you think materialistically, you will liken God to be water, the sun, sex, the government, or some other poor understanding of THE MOST HIGH POWER (which by definition is the lowest frequency highest amplitude waveform there is, which happens to be a dynamic magnetic waveform that permeates all, has no beginning, and no end.)

Thanks, dear colleagues here, for your reactions to my OP.


Let us all work together as to concur to be systematic on our resolution of the issue, God exists or not.

Why be systematic?

Simple: because nothing is ever achieved by man unsystematically, i.e. chaotically with no controls.

At this point someone will tell me that random mutation leads to new species according to the mentors of evolution.

Dear someone, please go and undertake random mutation and when you achieve a new species, you can report here.

To act systematically, from my part, I propose that we all folks who do care to resolve the issue God exists or not, we must work as to concur on a concept of God accepted by everyone, accepted namely as a thought in our mind: then we will go forth to look for evidence affirming that an entity exists outside and independent of our mind, that corresponds to the concept of God we all concur on.

Here is my proposed concept of God, namely:

God in concept is first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

Now, dear colleagues here, please let us each one think up a concept of God, and let us all know about it: so that we can work on them together to come to finally the concept concurred on by everyone on what is God.

Then we will go to the objective world of empirical reality, outside and independent of our mind, to look for evidence of such a being, that corresponds to the concept of God we have concurred on in our minds.


originally posted by: Pachomius
1. I define God as in concept first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.
2. So I search for everything with a beginning to its existence.
3. And I find everything I experience to be in existence having a beginning to its existence.
4. There, that is the evidence of God existing, in concept as first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.
5. Wherefore God exists, in concept as first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: DISRAELI

Again a "theory" of an external mover does not Prove a God

It can't be proven Until HE shows himself

What if the order of the universe is God showing himself?

And even what said event occurs... how does it prove a God when it could easily be a technology?

A technology employed by an autonomous intelligence?

a reply to: Tempter

Actually, the problem here is that if someone did "prove" God existed, it would be strong evidence that God did not exist... That IS the problem here....

To "prove" something requires that it follow physical laws, and occurs in the context of time. (Try to prove something without involving time or physical laws).

So if you did "prove" God existed - it would infer that God existed in a physical context and in a time context, but if it (God) did, it (God) wouldn't be God now would it? (starting to sound like Monty Python ).

a reply to: Teikiatsu

What if the order of the universe is God showing himself?

Could be...

A technology employed by an autonomous intelligence?

Perhaps... or maybe a race of creatures that are far more advanced then we could imagine

who knows

originally posted by: Akragon

A technology employed by an autonomous intelligence?

Perhaps... or maybe a race of creatures that are far more advanced then we could imagine

who knows

Who says God couldn't be a technologically advanced being who is far more advanced than we could imagine?

originally posted by: InhaleExhale


everything we see in the sky is directly above the earth in all directions, every star, planet, moon. etc.


earth and Venus and close in size.


So you have one example there in just our own solar system, with the number of galaxies housing 1000 of others systems I would say its quite common to find 2 celestial bodies that are similar in size.


the eclipse, the odds are phenomenal seeing as it will only be visible for a certain period of time until the moon drifts further out and eclipses wont be possible.


I can see with my naked eye 1000s of celestial objects every night, yes these are all in our Galaxy.


Yes they are, going by your logic, all the starts are the same size, 1000s of them, they ll look the same size, some a little bigger than others which is why they seem brighter.



Oh I get it, flat earth.


and yet more than 2/3rds of the worlds population still worship one God or another.

Yeah humans have forgotten.

First point - the Sun and moon are the only 2 celestial bodies [d]directly above us, seen every day/night. Everything else above us is just seen as a vast blanket of tiny lights, in the distance. You need telescopes to even see a few details. By human eye, they are all twinkling lights. We have only two celestial bodies close to Earth, and one is seen in daylight, the other at night (in general). And they are the exact same size, and are perfectly aligned to each other, and even eclipse each other perfectly....all by random chance, of course!

The other planets - Mars has 2 moons, of different size, and the Sun doesn't eclipse with either one. And it would not match in size, if it did. Venus and Mercury don't even have a moon. Saturn has 69 moons, Jupiter has 69 moons, Uranus has 27 moons, Neptune has 14 moons, and even a dwarf planet, like Pluto, has 5 moons.

A total of 184 moons are known to exist in our solar system, and 8 planets, at least 5 dwarf planets (Pluto included)...

Only one planet, which has only one of those 184 moons, somehow has the only moon which is the exact same size as the Sun. The only planet with life, advanced enough to see it.

But even more, these two celestial bodies are aligned perfectly, to unite as one, above the only planet with any life capable of seeing it.

I can't even begin to consider all the permutations and variables involved in such an event occurring by random.

But if you think life, itself, was all created by random chance, out of some primordial soup, then I'm sure you'd think celestial bodies align in perfect unison, all by random chance, too...

It's very ironic that the people who claim life cannot possibly have been created by a superior being, are the same people who believe that scientists will eventually be able to create life!!

How I despise the absolute arrogance of these self-appointed gods, of 'science'.

a reply to: turbonium1

We have only two celestial bodies close to Earth, and one is seen in daylight, the other at night (in general). And they are the exact same size,

LMAO!!

Well done...

No wonder you despise science...

A child, in a way, see parents as gods, who feed them, and take care of them, and know everything. African tribes thought people were gods, because only gods could fly in the heavens.

Why would anyone think life cannot have been created by some far advanced entity - a God - when they firmly believe that WE can someday create life?

Scientists claim that we are eventually going to know how to create life. Because we have greatly advanced our knowledge, already, they are confident it will happen, eventually.

If they ever actually do create life, THEY become Gods!

Only primordial soup could create life, until science came along!

originally posted by: turbonium1
Why would anyone think life cannot have been created by some far advanced entity - a God - when they firmly believe that WE can someday create life?

Scientists claim that we are eventually going to know how to create life. Because we have greatly advanced our knowledge, already, they are confident it will happen, eventually.

No on is saying advanced intelligent life could not be seen or misinterpreted as 'God'. But that isn't the reference people are making when they try to prove the existence of (a) God.

People are, so far as I can tell, referring to the supernatural reference of a religious God - not aliens.

Pachomius said in his OP:

1. I define God as in concept first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

That does not sound like an alien to me - that sounds like the reference to the God described in the Bible - the supernatural entity.

And his points of proof or his opinion on how he proves God to himself fail between points 3 and 4, in my opinion.