A Driver’s Suicide Reveals the Dark Side of the Gig Economy

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Willtell

He should have taken courses to increase his skill level and get out of that job.

Self responsibility has to come into play at some point in these situations.

Believe me, in the end this isn’t progress if we lose our souls in the process

I ask you again: what do you propose if you do not think new businesses that compete with older should be allowed?

Anyone can vent and rage, but can you provide a solution that is fair to all?

originally posted by: nightbringr

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Willtell

He should have taken courses to increase his skill level and get out of that job.

Self responsibility has to come into play at some point in these situations.

Believe me, in the end this isn’t progress if we lose our souls in the process

I ask you again: what do you propose if you do not think new businesses that compete with older should be allowed?

Anyone can vent and rage, but can you provide a solution that is fair to all?

I do not say they should not be allowed, just moderated so the shock will not destroy the old.


They don’t have to let the new so overwhelm the old and just snuff them out of existence so crudely just to placate some greedy rich people.

There is always a middle course where some allowance for the old can be considered.

In the US where the politicians are whores and can be bribed this will eventfully destroy this country, I believe.

In Europe, they at least try to do better

originally posted by: nightbringr

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Willtell

He should have taken courses to increase his skill level and get out of that job.

Self responsibility has to come into play at some point in these situations.

Believe me, in the end this isn’t progress if we lose our souls in the process

I ask you again: what do you propose if you do not think new businesses that compete with older should be allowed?

Anyone can vent and rage, but can you provide a solution that is fair to all?

Its not that they are new businesses, rather that they are economically disruptive.
Their competition model is skewed by fiddling their ways out of paying taxes at the same level as established businesses...In the case of Uber, they don't employ the vast majority of their workforce so pay zero employer's taxes, their profits are sieved through shell companies to avoid most of their corporation taxes and they force their contractors to operate on such slim margins that they price the companies that do employ people and do pay taxes out of business. The only winners are Uber shareholders, the workers lose because they earn less for more work, society loses because there is less tax revenue coming in and ultimately the customers lose because their safety isn't a priority for uber in the way that, say a proper cab company is forced to prioritise it.

Another thing particularly about this UBER situation.

They destroyed a way of life that made many ordinary people successful through the cab industry.

Not filthy rich like the Uber executives.

A poor person could save and get a taxi medallion and eventually live a good middle class life.

Also, a person could make a living as a cab or limousine driver

Now these Uber drivers only average 6 months working for Uber.

A part time profession makes a few people filthy rich and destroyed an industry that allowed a decent livable wage.

Now these drivers are not going to make any decent career out of ruining their cars for Uber.

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: nightbringr

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Willtell

He should have taken courses to increase his skill level and get out of that job.

Self responsibility has to come into play at some point in these situations.

Believe me, in the end this isn’t progress if we lose our souls in the process

I ask you again: what do you propose if you do not think new businesses that compete with older should be allowed?

Anyone can vent and rage, but can you provide a solution that is fair to all?

I do not say they should not be allowed, just moderated so the shock will not destroy the old.


They don’t have to let the new so overwhelm the old and just snuff them out of existence so crudely just to placate some greedy rich people.

There is always a middle course where some allowance for the old can be considered.

In the US where the politicians are whores and can be bribed this will eventfully destroy this country, I believe.

In Europe, they at least try to do better

I'm not seeing this as greedy people. It's a company that's does what taxis do more efficiently. They also have extremely flexible hours, allowing people to work small shifts, even supplementing their income by simply picking up a person heading in the same direction in their way home from work. It's brilliant, and helps those who need to top off their income.

Uber drivers have the potential to make more than taxi drivers with much less red tape. Success is driven by innovation.

You are simply saying it isn't right without offering any solid solutions. Since you again did not answer my question, I put it fourth again: what policies or regulations would you put in place to level the playing field?

a reply to: Willtell

I agree with you that we have a problem with the working class is getting worse and worse under our current system in the United States. We probably are in agreement of the rampant greed of the is the root cause of the evil. But I believe we disagree on the who is to blame, and the solutions.

New York is as progressive as it gets in the country. It is run by supposed to be socialist fighting for the poor people. They carry the Blue flag blaming the red team. But are they really for us? Do their socialist policies stop this type of tragic incidents from happening? Doesn't New York already have more than enough rules and regulations to protect us? How did that work out?

No matter what political system or economic system we have, it will fail to protect the poor people for as long as the power is held by greedy politicians, often is cahoot with the greedy rich people. The more power you give them, the less power we little people have. It really doesn't matter if we votes or not for as long as you give too much power to the ruling class. We are pretty much at the point where the voices of the working class do not matter any more.

How is it the fault of gig economy when the taxi license fee costed as much as $1,000,000 at its height, in the progressive city of New York? Would a true capitalist even want any taxi license fees? Would a true socialist allow such unfair fees to be enforced? So again, it does not matter what system we have. It matters how much power you gave up to the ruling class just because they said they are from the party you think that represent you. We keep voting for the same people who screwed us all.

We get what we deserve. We gave the ruling class the power. Not only we refuse to hold them accountable for their crimes, we circle the wagon around our oppressors for as long as they are "on your side". For as long as the charges are brought by the opposite side, your team is never guilty of anything. We common folks are all victims, but yet we turn ours best weapon, our voices, against each other over ideological differences. Instead of focusing on the deeds the ruling class had done, we fight to empower them for party identities, or other identities. We even gleefully spread their lies, and attack their enemies for free. That's like self enslaving. No wonder we are screwed.

If we want to reverse the trend and regain power. We must stop identifying ourselves rigidly as a fixed group. Stop treating each other as enemies. We must join force to hold the ruling class accountable regardless what side they are on. We need to get rid of the corrupted politicians before we can stop getting screwed by them.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Willtell

He should have taken courses to increase his skill level and get out of that job.

Self responsibility has to come into play at some point in these situations.

So, you are going to give advice to a dead man? But no judgment, right?

No. Advice to the LIVING, who are allowing themselves be over-stressed. Change Things.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: seasonal

What's incredible simple is the thought pattern you were responding to.

Is it?

Haven't you ever worked in fast food? I can tell you for a fact, that there are people who have a hard time learning to use the fry stations. I wish this wasn't so. But it is.

a reply to: Blue Shift

My son was working at a UPS sorting center.. 3am to 9pm. Was stressing him out, so he took online courses to learn software development. Is now on a team writing apps for Android and Apple. Less stress. More money.

I feel bad for children who are sick, poor, etc.. but not adults who are in control of their own destiny.

a reply to: seasonal

Yes..there are some people who are not able to learn new skills. To be honest, I know people who live better on the government, than they would driving a cab 100 hours a week. They got real "smart" at navigating the government goldmine, instead of killing themselves working for peanuts.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: seasonal

It is interesting how he breaks down IQ levels to what type of skills a person can expect to have. It was also interesting that towards the end he talked about trying to train a person in a new skill on the lower end of the normal IQ range where the kids in his class have basically a range that they could spend 10 mins learning and do it perfect where a lower normal IQ could spend 10 hours and still need more help.

Speaks a lot as to why a good size of American workers tend to learn a repetitive skill and then repeat it for the next 50 years. He also talked about that automation wipes jobs at the lower IQ levels and then works up from there.

It's a scary world, and our system is NOT set up to deal with what is coming.

I think capitalism and automation is either going to be a God sent or a corporatist's wet dream. It can't be both.


,,,

All the concentration about so called “progress” is always only about a way to make more money for the few


One day, I believe that philosophy is going to cause a great big bang in our culture.

They put at the center of their life, profit and they deem that progress.

Why not progress for making life better, more fulfilling, other than the pursuit of wealth.

For instance, why not try to, over time, move from an 8-hour workday, to a 6-hour workday.


Of course, we all know an 8-hour workday usually equals a 10-hour workday


Give people more time off…vacation time. Maybe to spend with ones family, pursue other things than merely the dog eat dog society we have built.


We were evolving, somewhat, to that up until the early 1980’s when they slammed on the breaks. Began to break unions, instill a greed ethic in the ethos of the society and just wrecked any chance for a balancing philosophy to work against the philosophy of greed and selfishness that has taken over our society.

a reply to: nospam2014


If we want to reverse the trend and regain power.


We never had any power to regain in the first place.

We were slowely evolving to a better more fair society at one point but recently we’ve been backsliding.

Actually, this issue is probably above the standard left/right paradigm since both groups let the rich destroy this society

Even though the right are worse generally, the left is also guilty

Greed is so universal that it can overtake philosophy

a reply to: Willtell



False scarcity pushes people to do things they otherwise wouldn't. That is if false scarcity is thing.

Why not progress for making life better, more fulfilling, other than the pursuit of wealth.

For instance, why not try to, over time, move from an 8-hour workday, to a 6-hour workday.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: nightbringr

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Willtell

He should have taken courses to increase his skill level and get out of that job.

Self responsibility has to come into play at some point in these situations.

Believe me, in the end this isn’t progress if we lose our souls in the process

I ask you again: what do you propose if you do not think new businesses that compete with older should be allowed?

Anyone can vent and rage, but can you provide a solution that is fair to all?

Its not that they are new businesses, rather that they are economically disruptive.
Their competition model is skewed by fiddling their ways out of paying taxes at the same level as established businesses...In the case of Uber, they don't employ the vast majority of their workforce so pay zero employer's taxes, their profits are sieved through shell companies to avoid most of their corporation taxes and they force their contractors to operate on such slim margins that they price the companies that do employ people and do pay taxes out of business. The only winners are Uber shareholders, the workers lose because they earn less for more work, society loses because there is less tax revenue coming in and ultimately the customers lose because their safety isn't a priority for uber in the way that, say a proper cab company is forced to prioritise it.

If this is all true, the blame lies with the government. They need to close any loopholes or change taxation laws that allow Uber to avoid paying their fair share.

As far as paying their employees very little, I see nothing wrong with that. As long as it is minimum wage or better. It's up to people to take personal responsibility in life. If you are making minimum wage, you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself why.

originally posted by: nightbringr

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: nightbringr

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Willtell

He should have taken courses to increase his skill level and get out of that job.

Self responsibility has to come into play at some point in these situations.

Believe me, in the end this isn’t progress if we lose our souls in the process

I ask you again: what do you propose if you do not think new businesses that compete with older should be allowed?

Anyone can vent and rage, but can you provide a solution that is fair to all?

Its not that they are new businesses, rather that they are economically disruptive.
Their competition model is skewed by fiddling their ways out of paying taxes at the same level as established businesses...In the case of Uber, they don't employ the vast majority of their workforce so pay zero employer's taxes, their profits are sieved through shell companies to avoid most of their corporation taxes and they force their contractors to operate on such slim margins that they price the companies that do employ people and do pay taxes out of business. The only winners are Uber shareholders, the workers lose because they earn less for more work, society loses because there is less tax revenue coming in and ultimately the customers lose because their safety isn't a priority for uber in the way that, say a proper cab company is forced to prioritise it.

If this is all true, the blame lies with the government. They need to close any loopholes or change taxation laws that allow Uber to avoid paying their fair share.

As far as paying their employees very little, I see nothing wrong with that. As long as it is minimum wage or better. It's up to people to take personal responsibility in life. If you are making minimum wage, you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself why.

More regs?????

originally posted by: seasonal
Also he is 60, if he does some retraining, and let's say it takes him 2-3 years, providing he isn't evicted or has a major set back that puts him at 63ish, takes another 3-6 months to find a job. He could be 64. Lot'sof companies wanting to invest in a soon to retire guy-even if he has another 15 years left in him?

Hey, 60 isn't ancient!

Actually, since he could drive and apparently has a decent driving record, he could MOVE THE HELL OUT OF NEW YORK and find honest work driving cars between dealerships. If my white-collar crime scheme doesn't pay off for retirement, that's my next gig. Plenty of work for old people if they MOVE OUT OF ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE PLACES TO LIVE ON THE PLANET.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: seasonal
Also he is 60, if he does some retraining, and let's say it takes him 2-3 years, providing he isn't evicted or has a major set back that puts him at 63ish, takes another 3-6 months to find a job. He could be 64. Lot'sof companies wanting to invest in a soon to retire guy-even if he has another 15 years left in him?

Hey, 60 isn't ancient!

Actually, since he could drive and apparently has a decent driving record, he could MOVE THE HELL OUT OF NEW YORK and find honest work driving cars between dealerships. If my white-collar crime scheme doesn't pay off for retirement, that's my next gig. Plenty of work for old people if they MOVE OUT OF ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE PLACES TO LIVE ON THE PLANET.

I didn't say 60 was ancient.

We don't know what is keeping him in NY.
Generalized solutions rarely address individual circumstances and easy answers rarely work for others. In the skilled trades there is a saying when a non-trades man is giving advice on a job, it called "all ya got to do". And all you got to do is ripe with simplified abstracts that rarely work.

a reply to: Willtell

I think it's pretty important to understand that technological progress has a human cost. Sadly this gentleman seems to have paid a high price in his hopes of reaching others.

originally posted by: LookingForABetterLife
As a former driver for Yellow Cab. I understand his pain. The only way to make any money is to work 20 hour days 7 days a week. With all your money going towards gas and car lease, there was little left over to survive on. Cab driving is a job I wish everyone knows is nothing but a way to have your wallet connected to a money sucking vacuum clear operated by big companies and big government.

No; see -- you guys don't get it. The taxi industry evolved. You want to make money being a taxi, buy your own car, pick up the people you want to pick up, when you want to pick em up. Like it or not, Uber/Lyft took over. Why? Because it's a better experience for the end user. They get rides in nicer cars, from more charismatic people.

Uber pays you what they pay you, but the tips are all yours, they get none. Be a great driver, get great money; it does work. Don't expect to lease a car from Bruce's Taxi, pay for the gas and make sure to bring it back topped off for the next driver or get fined and expect to make more than you do at Uber/Lyft. Just let the taxi companies die. They should have developed their own dispatching app, and be hiring drivers with their own cars, they didn't, so bye bye they go.

Like; this is called "Failure to Adapt." Taxi drivers are still a thing, still make great money, but make it from a different kind of car service, no more yellow cabs, they basic.


I'm not saying the Job Market right now is great or anything, just that you can still make money as a driver for a car service, and this guy shot himself for his own failures while blaming everybody else.