Is it foolish to dismiss religion as just superstition?

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: InTheLight
Then we have some people experiencing an epiphany, while others never do, so how does one explain the manifestation of a divine or supernatural being as one's reality?

I think it's a question that is missing the point.
Whether it's mental issues or divine intervention is irrelevant for those who don't get that epiphany.

There's stories in religion that have remained relevant for many years regardless of the "truth" of it.

I think that's more powerful then personal experiences that cannot be confirmed.

In my book, there is nothing more powerful than personal experience (without mental illness playing a role) as is the human condition that is repeated over and over again (war) and as related to stories in religion.

originally posted by: vinifalou
I have a opinion that a few events on the bible have an extraterrestrial explanation. You can think that's a crazy idea at first if you never researched the subject, but they mention "flying fire carriage", loss of time, "abductions", and all that stuff. They just couldn't explain back then what it was.

I've researched that idea religiously for over 20years, and I think it's crazy.

But it's not really relevant here. You are trying to find proof rather than looking at what the stories mean.
If Aliens weren't part of the equation could you still find value in religion?

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: InTheLight
Then we have some people experiencing an epiphany, while others never do, so how does one explain the manifestation of a divine or supernatural being as one's reality?

I think it's a question that is missing the point.
Whether it's mental issues or divine intervention is irrelevant for those who don't get that epiphany.

There's stories in religion that have remained relevant for many years regardless of the "truth" of it.

I think that's more powerful then personal experiences that cannot be confirmed.

In my book, there is nothing more powerful than personal experience (without mental illness playing a role).

Your personal experiences are no doubt massively powerful to you.
They cannot move someone else equally however.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: InTheLight
Then we have some people experiencing an epiphany, while others never do, so how does one explain the manifestation of a divine or supernatural being as one's reality?

I think it's a question that is missing the point.
Whether it's mental issues or divine intervention is irrelevant for those who don't get that epiphany.

There's stories in religion that have remained relevant for many years regardless of the "truth" of it.

I think that's more powerful then personal experiences that cannot be confirmed.

In my book, there is nothing more powerful than personal experience (without mental illness playing a role).

Your personal experiences are no doubt massively powerful to you.
They cannot move someone else equally however.

They most certainly do move my friends and family, some equally, some lines of communication are opened, and some not at all, but to each their own.

a reply to: Murgatroid

What a great reply.

'Is it foolish to dismiss religion'? I would actually state that it is foolish not to dismiss religion.

What if religion isn't teaching morals? What if religion is just like all of our other academics out there that teach rote memorization and regurgitation. No cognitive process will be allowed because when you start comparing reality to religion, the farce becomes apparent. Religion is actually detrimental to your progression through this reality.

Religion does not equate to spirituality. Religion suppresses spirituality, exactly as it was designed to do. Even the stories and fables in the books of the past have been corrupted. The bible corrupts our true history. Religions corrupt humanity.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
That's your reality, not everyones

To quote Spock, that is not only illogical, but self refuting as well...

One has to wonder WHY are so many agreeing with you?

Relativism is the philosophical position that all points of view are equally valid and that all truth is relative to the individual. But, if we look further, we see that this proposition is not logical. In fact, it is self refuting.

"What is true for you is not true for me. "

• If what is true for me is that relativism is false, then is it true that relativism is false?
• If you say no, then what is true for me is not true and relativism is false.
• If you say yes, then relativism is false.

"That is your reality, not mine. "

• Is my reality really real?
• If my reality is different than yours, how can my reality contradict your reality?
• If yours and mine are equally real, how can two opposite realities that exclude each other really exist at the same time?

Refuting Relativism

originally posted by: StallionDuck
The key is to search for God, according to my belief and never stop.

I think we can dismiss the idea of God completely yet still strive for "divine" insight into ourselves.
I'm not convinced that our position is really that different if at all.

a reply to: StallionDuck

t would feel liberating not to have any beliefs and I've tried

But who says that removing religion needs to include the removal of beliefs? I would say the opposite. When you remove religion then you start searching for your own answers instead of pre approved answers provided by questionable sources. I would say the removal of religion is when your quest truly begins. That is when you start to live this life and explore its mysteries.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: StallionDuck
The key is to search for God, according to my belief and never stop.

I think we can dismiss the idea of God completely yet still strive for "divine" insight into ourselves.
I'm not convinced that our position is really that different if at all.

But we just don't know, do we? would that make us all agnostic and either leaning towards belief or leaning away?

Can you dismiss someone as ignorant if they believe in god?

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: StallionDuck

originally posted by: eNumbra
Believing that eating a cracker and drinking some wine will offer you salvation is the definition of a superstition.

That, to me, is superstition. If I need to believe in a purpose, true or false, it's no one elses business but my own. It's not much different than simply saying...

You can believe whatever you wish to believe I won’t stop you.

But it is by definition, superstition.
www.dictionary.com...


It sounds like you’re just a little insecure about your beliefs

Post edit.... Why do I "sound like I'm insecure about my beliefs"? I don't feel insecure. Is there something I'm not telling me?

I've turned my back on my "beliefs" a few times in my life but none of the times was it due to disbelief more than it had to do with self righteous anger. I'm very secure in believing that God exists. Of that, I have no doubt. I can only say, if you lived my life and walked in my shoes, you would see my proof. Yet, if you want proof, you have to seek and find your own but you likely wont find it if you don't search for it. Then again, what do I know.... It might just walk up and slap you in the face Religion, on the other hand, is separate from faith or belief. To me, religion is a kind of church and the person running it, not the message or the word there in. For me, the word is truth. Because a man in white speaks it, doesn't make that man true. Only the word is true. The man is fallible, faulty, broken, not perfect and not God. However, a "church" by definition, is a place of gathering to worship and/or discuss the word. I rather worship in private. No one needs to hear my words but God. I don't have anything to prove to anyone. Discussing the mysteries and what is written, I always welcome because it's a very interesting topic. Not to mention, there are often chances that in those discussions, I understand something more clearly about that word or within myself. I have "ah hah!" moments often.

Still, I'm confused. Where do I show that I am insecure about my beliefs? I'm more sure about that than anything else in life and I'm a pretty confident person.

Religion is a by product of how we think. You can not remove religion or whatever you want to call it from our thought process.

We spend most of our thinking world in the abstract. Everything around you was created from pure abstract thought, you can't even make breakfast without first creating it abstractly. We have this capability to create things out of thin air and then make it a reality using either physical or mental tools/methods etc and religion just happens to be one of millions of creations.

To remove religion one would need to remove our ability to think abstractly, so it is never going to happen.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: StallionDuck
The key is to search for God, according to my belief and never stop.

I think we can dismiss the idea of God completely yet still strive for "divine" insight into ourselves.
I'm not convinced that our position is really that different if at all.

But we just don't know, do we? would that make us all agnostic and either leaning towards belief or leaning away?

Can you dismiss someone as ignorant if they believe in god?

Can we dismiss someone as ignorant, such as aboriginal people's belief in their spirituality?

originally posted by: ClovenSky
Religion is actually detrimental to your progression through this reality. Religion suppresses spirituality, exactly as it was designed to do. Religions corrupt humanity.

What you said is vitally important to anyone who wants to know whats really going on...

This is why I love the sig quote I use below...

I 100% disagree though that the bible corrupts our true history, everything Iv'e learned tells me just the opposite is true and I have seen it verified time and time again.

Here is just one example of many that is very similar to my experience that I have seen over the years:

For years I struggled believing that the Bible could be trusted. In fact, I was CONVINCED it couldn't be trusted! But then something very supernatural happened... Source

The citations below confirm what you said about the stealth agenda behind religion (suppress spirituality):

"Today the religions of the world remain a major tool of the Illuminati agenda. They maintain the climate of unquestioning, unthinking, ignorance, and their pseudo-morality provides a veil of hypocrisy, behind which the most sickening abuse of children can be hidden."

"Some of the most famous church "leaders" and evangelists on the planet are Illuminati operatives who use religion to manipulate and brain-wash their followers while engaging in Satanic rituals that beggar belief."

"But the mass of unthinking followers in any religion are merely the fodder and the screen behind which the real business goes on." Link

"What if there were people within the various Churches of God who covertly were guiding the members to slowly accept new ideas which are alien to the true faith and who were dedicated to destroying that faith at all costs?" JESUIT-JEDI MINDTRICKS

...most of our institutions are infiltrated and run by racists, satanists, perverts and criminals, often masquerading as devout and God-fearing Christians.

Did the Illuminati Exterminate Canadian Indian Children?

In the late forties the Illuminati wanted to infiltrate the churches because they understood the power of God within the structure of the church, and they had to find a way to infiltrate the church to break down that spiritual strength within the church, the power of the holy spirit that works within the church. They had to find a way to infiltrate that, and they wanted to bring the world into the churches so that the churches wouldn't be so strong spiritually. That was part of my father's job.

The method the illuminati used to infiltrate the organized church

What if I were to tell you, that there is a vast Satanic conspiracy to deceive the masses of every society on earth? What if I were to tell you that the top leaders of the world’s religions were in league with the Devil? Would you think I’m crazy? I would! Yet, the truth is stranger than fiction! You have been lied to my friend. Few people in the world today are aware of just how much Satan has infiltrated organized religion. Link

originally posted by: amazing
I agree with what the OP is saying.

There is quite a lot of real history in most religions books. There is great poetry. Amazing philosophical ideas. Even Scientology has some great programs to better yourself. (As reported by those that have left that religion).

As far as stories go, humans have always learned best from stories. Some of the best business books out there are in story form...think "the one minute manager" It's essential reading in most management programs, yet it's a fake story. Does it still have relevance? You betcha!

Thank you, I think you've expressed my ideas far better.

I agree with you on Scientology too, Dianetics is a fascinating book.

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: StallionDuck

t would feel liberating not to have any beliefs and I've tried

But who says that removing religion needs to include the removal of beliefs? I would say the opposite. When you remove religion then you start searching for your own answers instead of pre approved answers provided by questionable sources. I would say the removal of religion is when your quest truly begins. That is when you start to live this life and explore its mysteries.

It's so common to equate religion with beliefs these days that I at times use one for the other as well. I don't follow "religion" per say, only a belief system that includes God as the point. I've turned from my beliefs in those cases because I was angry at an outcome. In truth, hind sight, there were really just lessons... Maybe in a tough love sorta way, but lessons none the less. I look back each time and see that those situations were NOT good for me but I rebelled because no matter how 'not good' they may have been, I still wanted them with every fiber of my being and thus I rebelled like a modern day child who had his cell-phone ripped away.

I walked away from religion all so long ago when I realized that it was the strong arm of man and not what was written. Now, don't get me wrong, I'd say that religion in certain ways are good for humanity as a whole, perhaps good for some people but for me it was simply a stepping stone to be where I am today. Some learn and move on to learn more... some don't want to move on and that's ok too. For me... I just needed more and what I had around me didn't feel right. Some people can be alright with the blinders on because they can see through the vale and be content. I saw through the vale and realized it wasn't white and clean and that bothered me so I moved on.

My ways may not be right for others, but it "feels" right for me. Granted, I'm not perfect and my ways may be wrong but I'm human after all, still I'll keep searching until I have all the answers and until I'm no longer clueless.

originally posted by: amazing
But we just don't know, do we? would that make us all agnostic and either leaning towards belief or leaning away?

Can you dismiss someone as ignorant if they believe in god?

Agnostics need to grow a pair.
It's a weak position born out of being scared of a potential god or being scared of being wrong.

It depends on the reason for belief.
If Benny Hinn's miracles convince you I would probably say yes.
But then again placebo's work so technically Benny Hinn has saved some people(Probably less than he killed tho) so those few are perfectly rational to believe.

But of course you cannot dismiss someone as ignorant purely for believing in god.
It's basically saying you're stupid because you don't agree with me.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: StallionDuck
The key is to search for God, according to my belief and never stop.

I think we can dismiss the idea of God completely yet still strive for "divine" insight into ourselves.
I'm not convinced that our position is really that different if at all.

But we just don't know, do we? would that make us all agnostic and either leaning towards belief or leaning away?

Can you dismiss someone as ignorant if they believe in god?

Can we dismiss someone as ignorant, such as aboriginal people's belief in their spirituality?

We shouldn't. Who knows... They could be more correct than what we believe. Who's to say that an all powerful diety didn't come in many forms with many names to many different people? This is why I try my best to keep an open mind. It's all fascinating.

originally posted by: InTheLight
They most certainly do move my friends and family, some equally, some lines of communication are opened, and some not at all, but to each their own.

Yeah, I understand what you are saying and I agree mostly.
But I will probably continue to laugh at alien abductees until I'm actually probed personally.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: InTheLight
They most certainly do move my friends and family, some equally, some lines of communication are opened, and some not at all, but to each their own.

Yeah, I understand what you are saying and I agree mostly.
But I will probably continue to laugh at alien abductees until I'm actually probed personally.

Haha! Careful what you wish for. I tend to find that things I laugh at always have a way of coming back to kick me in the arse. In this world... anything is possible

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
I agree with you on Scientology too, Dianetics is a fascinating book.

Have you done any research on them?

Everything I have read tells me that Scientology is a NWO front designed to steer people AWAY from the truth.

Hubbard was a con-man, addicted to personal-power and out to make as much money as he possibly could. early on he was an associate with Jack Parsons in performing one of the most diabolical occult black-magic sex-rituals ever known to Man: "the babalon workings." - there is a tremendous amount of sinister EVIL behind all of this.

www.youtube.com...

Dianetics and Scientology are propagating the mental, spiritual, religious and political ideas of the New World Order people. L. Ron Hubbard had deep personal relationships with New World Order people starting at the age of 12 and then in the years of his life after that. But they were more than that, they were his recruiters and handlers, and they groomed him to be their front man for their subjects of Dianetics and Scientology.

Scientology is a New World Order front group and Hubbard was their initial front man. They groomed L. Ron Hubbard to act as their front man for propagating their subjects onto the population. Ron Hubbard’s association with New World Order people goes well beyond this short little synopsis I have just laid out. The full details of Ron Hubbard’s connections to New World Order people will be laid out in a separate chapter of this book.

Like every agent does, Ron Hubbard then hides his connection to his New World Order handlers by pretending that he alone made the mental discoveries and that he alone developed the therapy found in Dianetics.

Scientology Roots

A few good search terms I've used for research on this:

Scientology CIA MK Ultra - Google Search

Scientology Illuminati connections - Google Search

Scientology's concentration camps

Scientology PRISON CAMPS

Scientology TORTURE

Scientology's secret prison

Scientology forced child labor camps

Scientology's 'Hole'