OK I know theres mason peoples but what else?

Originally posted by The Axeman

Yeah that's an Alex Grey painting. He does some really amazing artwork. I think he had a little too much acid in his day though... Artistic inspiration through ingestion of hallucinogens. What a concept. Great work, though. www.alexgrey.com...

The painting is way cool, what an imagination that Alex guy has. About the BOTA lessons they really arent that long in fact they are kind of simple and not a lot of homework to do or anything just logical thinking. A few books are mentioned that one might purchase if he chose to. They quote Morals and Dogma in the lesson and Eliphas Levi they love Eliphas Levi. I'm at a real exciting time in life right now, just joining the Masons and all. Its good to be alive.

Originally posted by Cug
Well you got a future O.T.O. member here.

And a past Golden Dawn member.

How could you possibly leave the Golden Dawn for the OTO my friend? Thats clandestine Mason territory isn't it? Here is an interesting link....

users.erols.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">
users.erols.com...

and a tiny appetizer. You can also find the secret rituals of the OTO now on the web. You probably have already seen them if you have made up your mind to join.


The early history of the Ordo Templi Orientis or O.T.O. is shrouded in obscurity as are many organizations of this type. It emerges from the early 20th Century as a Masonic fraud. It united certain fringe and some entirely bogus Masonic and other fraternal bodies and promoted a form of sexual magical practice. It was the brainchild of Theodor Reuss (1855-1923) of Augsburg, Germany.

Reuss was a professional singer, journalist and may have been a spy for the Prussian police. He was initiated into legitimate Freemasonry in November, 1876 into Pilgrim Lodge No. 238 while in London. He was passed to the Degree of Fellowcraft in May, 1877 and raised to the Degree of Master Mason on 9 January, 1878. There is no record of Reuss having ever attended another meeting and he was dropped from membership on 1 October, 1880. This is the entire extent of his career as a Regular Mason .

Please excuse no ignorance on this subject

But what are all these things i.e MASON ,Illumnati,O.T.O Skull n Bones ect ecct

As in whats it all about Power ? Money ? Oppertunity ?
Why would anyone join any of them ?
Whats the difference between freemasons and masons ?

They all sound like money spinners to me ? but then i am not very educated in this field .......

Depends on what you believe regarding the use of fronts.

Masons seems to believe for them to be a front, they would know about it, and contend hotly that they are not.

In their opinion, bad people don't use front groups to hide their actions.

So all these organizations are places where you meet 'good friends' and 'Brothers', and 'improve yourself', but you aren't allowed to share how you've improved with any one.

Originally posted by TgSoe

Originally posted by Cug
Well you got a future O.T.O. member here.

And a past Golden Dawn member.

How could you possibly leave the Golden Dawn for the OTO my friend? Thats clandestine Mason territory isn't it?

Quite simple... I'm a Thelemite and the O.T.O. is a fraternal organization for Thelemites.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Anyway, I think that there are a few other secret societies here, but why would anyone want to discuss, say, the Woodsmen, or the Elks? THey're not 'conspiracy worthy'. So it sticks to mason, templars, and supposed 'illuminati' and the like.

BTW, what Knights Templar are on this board?

I'm a bit late in responding to this sure-to-be fascinating thread, but I am a Knight Templar (member of the Commandery in Louisville, KY since 1990) I'm also a member of the Odd Fellows, Knights of Pythias, United Ancient Order of Druids, the Beta Society, the Ancient Toltec Rite, the Freemasons (in several branches of that society) and some others.

Regards

Originally posted by senrak
I'm a bit late in responding to this sure-to-be fascinating thread, but I am a Knight Templar (member of the Commandery in Louisville, KY since 1990) I'm also a member of the Odd Fellows, Knights of Pythias, United Ancient Order of Druids, the Beta Society, the Ancient Toltec Rite, the Freemasons (in several branches of that society) and some others.

OMG Senrak IS the connection!!!

Originally posted by Cug

Quite simple... I'm a Thelemite and the O.T.O. is a fraternal organization for Thelemites.

So how soon are you going man? Did you start out in the Golden Dawn are Masons? How long have you been travelling this direction? The OTO boasts of priveledges that its hard for me to believe they can deliver but I guess anything is possible if you believe.

Originally posted by The Axeman
OMG Senrak IS the connection!!!

YES!!!! Now you must do exactly as I say . . . BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Originally posted by TgSoe

So how soon are you going man?

Not sure... it all depends when the initiations are.

Did you start out in the Golden Dawn are Masons?

GD, I have never been a Mason.

How long have you been travelling this direction?

My whole life

The OTO boasts of priveledges that its hard for me to believe they can deliver but I guess anything is possible if you believe.

Now it's my turn... What privileges do you think they offer? And why are they hard to believe?

Originally posted by Cug
GD, I have never been a Mason.

They'll tell you at one point that you ARE a Mason...and MORE of a Mason than members of the Masonic Order. ...but it isn't so.

I have copies of the rituals of the OTO (and NOT F. King's "The Secret Rituals of the OTO") The ACTUAL rituals given to me by a friend and former member.

Regards

[edit on 19-2-2005 by senrak]

Originally posted by senrak


They'll tell you at one point that you ARE a Mason...and MORE of a Mason than members of the Masonic Order. ...but it isn't so.

I don't mean to step on any toes but so what? It's all part of the O.T.O. mythos.

I don't think you will find any member of the O.T.O. who would walk into a Freemason lodge and demand to be allowed entrance for it's their right to be there. I do know of a few O.T.O. members who are also Free Masons if they thought they were already masons I wouldn't think they bother. (But I think I recall reading somewhere that a York Right? grand lodge no longer accepts The Book of the Law as the volume of the sacred law) Quite frankly I take all the mason talk from the O.T.O. as a generic term and not Free Masonry ®

As for being MORE Mason In a way you can see why Crowley thought he was right.. He awarded O.T.O. degrees by affiliation to masons up to the O.T.O.'s 7th degree so the 8th, 9th and 11th degrees that contain the Main "secret" of the O.T.O. were "more" than masonry had.

I hope you can understand that... I have the flu and my mind is a bit fuzzy at the moment.

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by senrak


They'll tell you at one point that you ARE a Mason...and MORE of a Mason than members of the Masonic Order. ...but it isn't so.

I don't mean to step on any toes but so what? It's all part of the O.T.O. mythos.

I don't think you will find any member of the O.T.O. who would walk into a Freemason lodge and demand to be allowed entrance for it's their right to be there. I do know of a few O.T.O. members who are also Free Masons if they thought they were already masons I wouldn't think they bother. (But I think I recall reading somewhere that a York Right? grand lodge no longer accepts The Book of the Law as the volume of the sacred law) Quite frankly I take all the mason talk from the O.T.O. as a generic term and not Free Masonry ®

As for being MORE Mason In a way you can see why Crowley thought he was right.. He awarded O.T.O. degrees by affiliation to masons up to the O.T.O.'s 7th degree so the 8th, 9th and 11th degrees that contain the Main "secret" of the O.T.O. were "more" than masonry had.

I hope you can understand that... I have the flu and my mind is a bit fuzzy at the moment.

I understand what you're saying and you're right no OTO member would demand entrance to a legitimate Lodge since that can't be done (in the USA anyway) without a current dues card from a recognized Masonic Lodge.

What I don't understand is the WHY of it all. i.e., why can't the OTO have it's own rituals (and some of them ARE theirs...) and not plagarize Masonic rituals and claim to BE Masonic....since they're not affiliated in any way (except that some people are members of both)

Honestly I have a problem with people BEING members of both, since we pledge a degree of loyalty to the Grand Lodge in our jurisdiction and to the various governing bodies of other Masonic bodies when/if we chose to join those. I think I'd have a hard time considering my Masonic obligations to be important AND joining a group that claims to be Masonic, confers pseud-Masonic degrees and tells it's member that it "out-Masons" the Masons.

Again, just my two cents...and I have a few friends who are still OTO members.

Regards

Originally posted by Cug


The best thing about it is the lessons on the Tarot. I think they are missing out on quite a bit with Case's dislike of Enochian.

I can understand Case's concerns, but I partially agree with you, i.e., PFC may have thrown the baby out with the bathwater, at least as far as the Enochian system is concerned. Nevertheless, the BOTA curriculum is organized in such a way that the same general results can be reproduced without delving into "official" Enochiana.

Also, those Builders of the Adytum who wish to supplement their Practice with Enochiana can find the necessary information in Regardie's "The Golden Dawn" and Crowley's "The Vision And The Voice".

I'm a former Associate Member of O.T.O. and have had the opportunity to discuss these matters with OTO initiates. Several Camps, Oases, and Lodges of OTO still use the rituals published by King, which was the official Crowley revision. In fact, when McMurtry was Caliph, he used King's expose as the ritual book to be given to Lodge officers.

Around 1997, when I was still an Associate Member, the present Caliph announced in The Magickal Link that the rituals were being revised again; the last I've heard, some OTO bodies are now using the modern revised Crowley version.

For Masons interested in the O.T.O., I would recommend a book called The Unknown God: Wilfred T. Smith And The Thelemites by Brother Martin P. Starr, 33°, Secretary of the Scottish Rite Research Society. For those who are already members of the Scottish Rite Research Society, you can read an excerpt in the new edition of Heredom in a paper titled "The Esoteric Rosicrucians".

Originally posted by Masonic Light
For Masons interested in the O.T.O., I would recommend a book called The Unknown God: Wilfred T. Smith And The Thelemites by Brother Martin P. Starr, 33°, Secretary of the Scottish Rite Research Society. For those who are already members of the Scottish Rite Research Society, you can read an excerpt in the new edition of Heredom in a paper titled "The Esoteric Rosicrucians".

Along those same lines, if any of you Masons get the opportunity to go to Masonic Weekend in D.C. (it happened last week in February) Martin is almost always there and is pretty fascinating to talk about on this subject (and other subjects, too, of course)

Originally posted by Cug

Now it's my turn... What privileges do you think they offer? And why are they hard to believe?

This is a quote from Liber OZ

W1. Man has the right to live by his own law -
to live in the way that he wills to do:
to work as he will:
to play as he will:
to rest as he will:
to die when and how he will.
2. Man has the right to eat what he will:
to drink what he will:
to dwell where he will:
to move as he will on the face of the earth.
3. Man has the right to think what he will:
to speak what he will:
to write what he will:
to draw, paint, carve, etch, mould, build as he will:
to dress as he will.
4. Man has the right to love as he will:
"take your fill and will of love as ye will, when where and with whom ye will" - AL I:51
5. Man has the right to kill those who would thwart these rights.

"the slaves shall serve" - AL II:58
"Love is the law; love under will" - AL I:57

It all sounds good man but I have difficulty believing one can live like that and get away with it. If I tried to live by those rules I would be in jail before sundown, respectfully.

Its interesting how much of the Occult message is transmitted through the Heavy Metal industry, athough I can't compare it to any other time, it was always occult-dominated!

As for the OTO, heard Crowley had something special in mind for all who wanted to become 11th degree, they took more than his word for it, .

Does a spiteful servant make a good master?

Originally posted by TgSoe

Originally posted by Cug

Now it's my turn... What privileges do you think they offer? And why are they hard to believe?

This is a quote from Liber OZ

W1. Man has the right to live by his own law -
to live in the way that he wills to do:
to work as he will:
to play as he will:
to rest as he will:
to die when and how he will.
2. Man has the right to eat what he will:
to drink what he will:
to dwell where he will:
to move as he will on the face of the earth.
3. Man has the right to think what he will:
to speak what he will:
to write what he will:
to draw, paint, carve, etch, mould, build as he will:
to dress as he will.
4. Man has the right to love as he will:
"take your fill and will of love as ye will, when where and with whom ye will" - AL I:51
5. Man has the right to kill those who would thwart these rights.

"the slaves shall serve" - AL II:58
"Love is the law; love under will" - AL I:57

It all sounds good man but I have difficulty believing one can live like that and get away with it. If I tried to live by those rules I would be in jail before sundown, respectfully.

satanism i see.

they said on this thread your teaching them ML.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by MysticOfRadiance]

Originally posted by TgSoe
It all sounds good man but I have difficulty believing one can live like that and get away with it. If I tried to live by those rules I would be in jail before sundown, respectfully.

I don't think that is supposed to be taken literally, i.e., the phrase "what you will" doesn't necessarily mean whatever you want, but rather what you are suited for. It seems to me that "What you will" meansd no man can dictate to you what you should be doing, rather it is up to you to find your path and "Do what you will".

I could be totally off here, but from what I have read on the subject (which, admittedly, is little) that seems to be the case.

Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance

satanism i see.

they said on this thread your teaching them ML.

Again, it is all a matter of interpretation. If you look at that literally, then yeah I suppose it could be classified as Satanism, being as Satanism is all about putting yourself above all else, but I really don't think these kinds of materials are meant to be taken literally.

Perhaps it is worded this way so that the man who would judge words at face value will automatically condemn them, while the seeker will search for a deeper meaning than what is on the surface.

Just my opinion, and as I said I could be wrong.