It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
In short: Jesus should have sat and reigned on the Roman Imperial throne instead of Caligula and successors, following Tiberius' death, since Jesus was the only living true heir to Julius Caesar. That makes all the other Caesars and Augusti into frauds and rivals of Jesus and the true Caesari. And when all the fraudulent Roman emperors' reign ended with the Fall of the Roman Empire, the Pope took over the Roman Curia, where he still reigns as something more than both man, kings and emperors alike.
This is what John of Patmos revealed to us in a parables as two beasts in the 13th chapter of his Apocalypse:
==> 1st beast («the kings»): All the illegitimate emperors of Rome. From the conspiracy against Julius Caesar in 44BC until the Roman Empire ended into utter ruins after a few centuries and the Eastern sideshow kept kicking for quite a while longer.
==> 2nd beast («The false prophet»): The Pope. All Popes who have ruled the Roman Curia from the fall of the Empire until this day and tomorrow.
I don't see the connection between Jesus and anything roman...
originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
I don't think so.
The early and medieval Christians would have eaten up such stories, using them as defense against persecution, and we'd all know, if it were true.
It would also have made a nonsense of Jesus actual mission here on Earth, according to the Gospel accounts.
Question: "What does it mean that Jesus is the son of David?"
Answer: Seventeen verses in the New Testament describe Jesus as the “son of David.” But the question arises, how could Jesus be the son of David if David lived approximately 1,000 years before Jesus? The answer is that Christ (the Messiah) was the fulfillment of the prophecy of the seed of David (2 Samuel 7:12–16). Jesus is the promised Messiah, which means He had to be of the lineage of David. Matthew 1 gives the genealogical proof that Jesus, in His humanity, was a direct descendant of Abraham and David through Joseph, Jesus’ legal father. The genealogy in Luke 3 traces Jesus’ lineage through His mother, Mary. Jesus is a descendant of David by adoption through Joseph and by blood through Mary. “As to his earthly life [Christ Jesus] was a descendant of David” (Romans 1:3).
Primarily, the title “Son of David” is more than a statement of physical genealogy. It is a Messianic title. When people referred to Jesus as the Son of David, they meant that He was the long-awaited Deliverer, the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies.
how is he his son?
The question is to be answered upon true and just notions of the Messiah, but unanswerable upon the principles of the Pharisees; who expected the Messiah only as a mere man, that should be of the seed of David, and so his son; and should sit upon his throne, and be a prosperous and victorious prince, and deliver them out of the hands of their temporal enemies: they were able to make answer to the question, separately considered, as that he should be of the lineage and house of David; should lineally descend from him, be of his family, one of his offspring and posterity, and so be properly and naturally his son; but how he could be so, consistent with his being David's Lord, puzzled them. Had they understood and owned the proper divinity of the Messiah, they might have answered, that as he was God, he was David's Lord, his maker, and his king; and, as man, was David's son, and so both his root and offspring; and this our Lord meant to bring them to a confession of, or put them to confusion and silence, which was the consequence.
John [ESV] 6:14 When the people saw the sign that he had done, they said, “This is indeed the Prophet who is to come into the world!” / 15 Perceiving then that they were about to come and take him by force to make him king, Jesus withdrew again to the mountain by himself.
Revelation [ESV] 17:14 They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.
«Matthew [ESV] 12:26...if Satan (or any king or powerful entity) casts out Satan (that is, himself, in this case Satan himself), he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?»
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
I don't think so.
The early and medieval Christians would have eaten up such stories, using them as defense against persecution, and we'd all know, if it were true.
Claiming all emperors of the Roman Empire were imposters would give the Christians protection? Let me quote yourself here: «I don't think so.»
It would also have made a nonsense of Jesus actual mission here on Earth, according to the Gospel accounts.
And that actual mission was again? Oh, a political run: Matthew 28 (last verses of this gospel, verses 16-20): The Great Commission (ESV commentaries mine)
Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me (since Jesus was the only true heir to Julius Caesar, and very much persecuted one, from obvious reasons). Go therefore and make disciples (followers loyal to the true Caesar)
of all nations, baptizing them (or lit. subdue them)
(or rather into) the name (legacy) of the Father (Jesus called God Eli [or rather Heli with silenced H in Greek]
while nailed to the tree, that is Lat. Julius in Hebrew)
and of the Son (Jesus' father, Julius Caesar's only direct heir, Caesarion) and of the Holy Spirit (or rather «according to the Command of God»)
, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you (that he only revealed to his twelve original apostles). And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Time goes by, and then comes Saulus, the first Pope (not Peter in other words, Peter was true to Jesus, but still a slave of Saulus), and the arch type of the pontiff.
No other person has shaped Christendom more than Saulus. When you read the epistles of Saulus, put on the devil's glasses, for all he commands the (60AD +/- a year or two) churches to do and not do and what he tells them are threats and false theology effectively excluding these Christians from anything Jewish, like excluding them from synagogues for worshipping humans as gods and prohibit Christians from circumcising their sons etc), take this sentence from Sauli letter to the Philippians for instance (verse 4:22) :
All the saints greet you (the saints Saulus had killed or enslaved), especially those of (....you who belong to...) Caesar’s household (i.e. the descendants of Jesus).
The young boy Caesarion survived, his body was never found when his parents, Julius and Cleopatra, fell victim of treason leaving the young lad's mighty parents killed
originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
The young boy Caesarion survived, his body was never found when his parents, Julius and Cleopatra, fell victim of treason leaving the young lad's mighty parents killed
Just a point of order, are you saying Cleopatra and Julius Ceaser died concurrently, orphaning Cesarion? As I am sure you are aware, Cleopatra outlived Julius and died as Marc Antony's consort.
Otherwise, I do enjoy this take on the legend...appreciate the fodder
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: chr0naut
Are you saying that Heli and Julius is not the same name? If you remove the latin male suffix -us in Julius, you get Juli, and in many Latin dialects and languages J and H are used interchangeably
, as in Huli, and Verner's law also shows how E and U are common vowel shifts, i.e. Heli is one of many possible Hebrew readings of the name Julius, and if you translate it into Koine Greek you actually get the name Helios, the Sun. Jesus and Caesars are all about Solar worship. That's linguistics btw, you know, the Logos thing?
Where on Earth did you manage to translate Julius into Yehuda?
First syllable of Jehuda is Jahveh for heavens' sakes.
And your other anachronisms only show your lack of imagination and your limited understanding of basic hermeneutics. *shaking head*