What if everyone got a monthly check from the government?

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: neo96

I would imagine the money would come from the corps who have a very very small and limited number of humans making all the consumer goods that society 'needs'.
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Oh, money will come from where it comes from right now.

The government will print it.

a reply to: AMPTAH

True, but what you have to ask yourself is who is really gaining anything from the money printing?

Are you-your family? How about your neighbor? The only real way the average US citizen is gaining is keeping the crash that sooner or later is going to happen, from happening.

a reply to: AMPTAH

You can't walk anywhere you want, nor hunt, nor fish, nor farm, nor provide for your self in any way, without government permission and paying the proper licencing fees, and submitting to the government imposed regulations.

Understand the context though. People are stupid and greedy overall. Regulations for hunting and fishing came about AFTER people without them freely destroyed entire species and populations of livestock as well as fisheries. Buffalo were hunted to near extinction. Many big cat species, gators, wolves, small furry critters as well as COD and Salmon fisheries were COMPLETELY destroyed and driven almost completely from the face of the Earth. That is because, PEOPLE REALLY ARE #ING STUPID.

You need to understand that left to our own devices we will self destruct because of greed and gluttony. This is why humanity has to be herded like cattle. You should take note of other lands where regulations and enforcement do not exist. Lots of places where people are starving and the land is toxic is because people are left to free for all policies of doing whatever they want.

It may have made sense before industrialization, but machines exploded our population and make it too easy to sanitize entire chunks of a nation of anything livable or habitable without proper oversight. Then we get all"oh those idiots can't take care of themselves why should we give them aid blah blah blah" . Yea no # they cannot take care of themselves, and without oversight neither would we. Our history shows just as much. Even improper farming techniques contributed to that dust bowl disaster when the drought hit.

But if you own land, you have every right to grow whatever you want on it to feed yourself. It is only when you want to sell or give it away to feed others where you will meet regulations. That is because we don't want you to feeds us toxic or deadly unsafe contaminated food, and for that I thank the oversight. Eat it all yourself if you want, but when you want to feed others, be ready to prove it is safe for others to eat.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

I hate to say it, but in many respects you are correct.

The US needed the EPA to twist the arm of huge corps from dumping all sorts of chemicals where ever the hell they wanted. Look at how many super fund sites there are. China-India-Vietnam-Pakistan are a mess, if it is printed on the inside of your shirt (where it's made) the land and people are basically being exploited and enslaved.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry

But if you own land, you have every right to grow whatever you want on it to feed yourself.

This ain't so everywhere. Some states don't allow you to grow what you want on your own land.

Various reasons for this. For example, you're not allowed to collect "rain water" that falls on your land, but must allow that water to drain off into the local waterways. That means no trapping of water to feed your "plants". etc...

Like I said, you just cannot do what you want on your own land.

a reply to: EartOccupant

Most americans can't understand this idea, they don't even think that healthcare is a fundamental right, it's like showing card tricks to a dog.

a reply to: seasonal


Heh, in the words of Alan Greenspan "We'll never run out of money, we can just print more"

I agree the collapse is inevitable with the debt being as deep as it is. This is the equivalent of a middle class family moving to the Hamptons and buying a new sports car for every member of the family. Its all on credit, and there is no chance of paying it back. Sure, they can keep taking out new loans to pay off the old ones, but that alone is unsustainable. When you add in the fact that they continue to spend money (!), it is clear that paying off the debt is also untenable. IMO, the only way out is default/collapse and whatever terrible things that brings with it.

This government has been far too irresponsible for more than a century, each administration passing the economic "buck" off to the next.

I just hope everyone has been storing non-perishable food (or mountain house, 30 year shelf life), water, purification stuff, non-potable water, firearms, ammo, trade goods, etc. Because when the dog and pony show finally breaks down, that bloated and boisterous government will be nowhere to be found (they'll all be hiding under the "rocks" we all paid for, eating the survival rations we also paid for)

Make no mistake, just look at the true first responders to almost every major disaster. It isn't the federal government. It is dedicated local public safety authorities and the citizens who live there, all working together to protect their homes and neighbors. Except in the case of Katrina, where some remaining "officials" decided the best use of their very precious and limited time would be confiscating firearms from citizens remaining to ride out the storm. Brilliant move, morons.

If I'm not mistaken, FEMA has botched virtually every response in recent history (up until this past year, which it performed "moderately" as opposed to "incompetently bungling the response"

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: AMPTAH

True, but what you have to ask yourself is who is really gaining anything from the money printing?

If you just print money, after a while the prices of all goods and services will rise to consume that extra money.

So, you'll find yourself in a never-ending spiral of higher prices.

So, you must "control prices" of all the basic items needed for survival, and let "luxury price" float freely.

Then you can print money, and hand it out to the people, without any negative effects.

originally posted by: JBurns

I agree the collapse is inevitable with the debt being as deep as it is.

There's no collapse possible.

People keep thinking of Nazi Germany, when there was hyperinflation, and a truck load of cash was needed to buy a loaf of bread.

But, in those days, money was backed by gold.

Today, money isn't backed by anything, so you can print lots and lots of it, without a crash.

You can always pay your bills, when you can just print more notes.

Especially, when you don't even have to incur the cost of "printing" in this "digital" age.

Just add more bits and bytes to the records.

a reply to: wheresthebody

I'm hoping the next 7 years will change that.

Somehow i'm trying to stay optimistic while reading my mind.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Right, inflation is a constant in the centralized system we have with the FED. In fact it is built in. The real question is why have we not seen devastating crippling inflation?
And is all that electronic money sitting in wallstreet or bank servers or paying for wars? Has it hit the street yet? I say it hasn't, but really don't know where it is.

originally posted by: slapjacks
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take away everything that you have."

1 in 5 Americans are dependent on the government now, for income or healthcare.

a reply to: AMPTAH

But, in those days, money was backed by gold.

Today, money isn't backed by anything, so you can print lots and lots of it, without a crash.

That is a very good point, almost forgot how fake our currency had become. "Fiat" Heh, literally means "backed by the faith and reputation of a specific entity" In this case, that would be referring to the US government which has anything but my faith or the benefit of a good reputation.

At least a gold backed currency would have some semblance of legitimacy/value. Of course, when they can just decide to add something like the 16th amendment to our Constitution (which was about a direct non-apportioned tax, directly in opposition to the Constitution mind you) it should come as no surprise they would be willing to declare an intrinsically worthless piece of paper to have value vs. our usurped gold backed monetary system.

I bet if Fort Knox were ever audited, the gold is gone and I'd love to see what the result of a federal reserve audit would be.

Crunching the numbers, this would cost the US a total of 5.6 Trillion dollars a year. Who here thinks this is actually possible?

a reply to: AMPTAH
Well that is the case in like less than five states. That is not the case in the rest of the country. I can collect whatever water i want in Florida, and grow whatever food I want too as long as I am not trying to provide to others to eat, either for free or for money.
There are more than a handful of Florida members here that would can tell you that they do this very thing. So reserve you resentment to the specific states in question, because that is just not the case in all 50.

a reply to: JBurns

It's been done before.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: JBurns

I agree the collapse is inevitable with the debt being as deep as it is.

There's no collapse possible.

People keep thinking of Nazi Germany, when there was hyperinflation, and a truck load of cash was needed to buy a loaf of bread.

But, in those days, money was backed by gold.

Today, money isn't backed by anything, so you can print lots and lots of it, without a crash.

You can always pay your bills, when you can just print more notes.

Especially, when you don't even have to incur the cost of "printing" in this "digital" age.

Just add more bits and bytes to the records.

If the money was backed by gold, they could not print the massive number of notes in the WW II era Weimar Republic. The only way they could have printed more notes was to lie or use fraction backed notes, that is lying too.

A crash could or would happen when people loose faith in the US dollar. Is that possible?

a reply to: avgguy


Not I. But look at the productive economic discussion this topic has spurred.

Even the most untenable goals can lead to unexpected results in sometimes unrelated areas

originally posted by: wheresthebody
a reply to: EartOccupant

Most americans can't understand this idea, they don't even think that healthcare is a fundamental right, it's like showing card tricks to a dog.

Because corporate products,and free money are NOT human rights.

Good hell.

a reply to: neo96

I'm so glad my mom left america when she was preggers, i would have died there.