The Historical Reason Why Calling Haiti A %-Hole Really Is Incredibly Racist.

originally posted by: alldaylong
Yes, the U.K. must have been responsible for supplying the slaves that built The Egyptian Pyramids.

Slaves didn't build the... well not a great many of the pyramids, but the Egyptians did slave raid Nubia / Kerma for various purposes (for conscript archer troops was a common reason). The pyramids were religious and national pride thing so proper Egyptians were made to build them, and if they didn't do their annual months on the job quota well then....

Essentially every 'civilization' ever did slaves.

Just FYI:

This thread is not in the Pit.

a reply to: Painterz

A more recent episode of why haiti is crappy would be Hillarys scamming of that country.

Goodman: What is the Clinton Foundation controversy in Haiti about?

Ortel: The simple answer is that billions of dollars in “aid” supposedly were raised to help the desperately poor people of Haiti, yet Bill Clinton and the Clinton Foundation refuse to account, in granular and verified fashion, for any of this aid. If Haiti (before the latest storm) had obviously been better off, perhaps this controversy would not now be swirling with hurricane force winds. But accounts from multiple parties suggest that Haiti has little to show in the parts of the nation that were devastated in January 2010.

So Haitians are more than upset over what happened to their missing aid.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Funny, I dont remember even a small percentage of the outrage of Hillary helping cause Haiti to be crappy as trump just calling it that.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
Just FYI:

This thread is not in the Pit.

Indeed, yes. And I am trying to respond to people as adults and address their points maturely.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Painterz

A more recent episode of why haiti is crappy would be Hillarys scamming of that country.

Goodman: What is the Clinton Foundation controversy in Haiti about?

Ortel: The simple answer is that billions of dollars in “aid” supposedly were raised to help the desperately poor people of Haiti, yet Bill Clinton and the Clinton Foundation refuse to account, in granular and verified fashion, for any of this aid. If Haiti (before the latest storm) had obviously been better off, perhaps this controversy would not now be swirling with hurricane force winds. But accounts from multiple parties suggest that Haiti has little to show in the parts of the nation that were devastated in January 2010.

So Haitians are more than upset over what happened to their missing aid.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Funny, I dont remember even a small percentage of the outrage of Hillary helping cause Haiti to be crappy as trump just calling it that.

Exactly, yes, Hillary is also responsible for reasons why Haiti is in a mess. This interference goes way back to when Haiti first gained it's independence. Wealthy American and Europeans interfering in the country to keep it poor and screwed over.

But stating 'but hilary!' doesn't excuse Trump. We're not talking about Hilary here. But if Hilary had, god help us, become President, I am fairly certain her Haitian meddling would have blown up at some point and become an issue just as this Trump thing has become an issue.

originally posted by: Painterz

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Painterz

A more recent episode of why haiti is crappy would be Hillarys scamming of that country.

Goodman: What is the Clinton Foundation controversy in Haiti about?

Ortel: The simple answer is that billions of dollars in “aid” supposedly were raised to help the desperately poor people of Haiti, yet Bill Clinton and the Clinton Foundation refuse to account, in granular and verified fashion, for any of this aid. If Haiti (before the latest storm) had obviously been better off, perhaps this controversy would not now be swirling with hurricane force winds. But accounts from multiple parties suggest that Haiti has little to show in the parts of the nation that were devastated in January 2010.

So Haitians are more than upset over what happened to their missing aid.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Funny, I dont remember even a small percentage of the outrage of Hillary helping cause Haiti to be crappy as trump just calling it that.

Exactly, yes, Hillary is also responsible for reasons why Haiti is in a mess. This interference goes way back to when Haiti first gained it's independence. Wealthy American and Europeans interfering in the country to keep it poor and screwed over.

But stating 'but hilary!' doesn't excuse Trump. We're not talking about Hilary here. But if Hilary had, god help us, become President, I am fairly certain her Haitian meddling would have blown up at some point and become an issue just as this Trump thing has become an issue.

But its not just about trump is it?

Its about the reaction to what he said.

Its about the claims that he is a racist for saying it.

And its about the same people that are most hysterical about Trumps WORDS not giving a damn about HIllarys ACTIONS in harming Haiti.

It shows that they dont really care about Haiti, they just want another excuse to attack trump.

a reply to: Painterz

So usually actions speak louder than words.

Hillary actually did something monstrous. Trump just said something and not even directly against Haiti, and if you're making just about Haiti, what does that say about your opinion of Haiti? Doesn't that imply you are just as racist by that definition as anyone else?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Painterz

So usually actions speak louder than words.

Hillary actually did something monstrous. Trump just said something and not even directly against Haiti, and if you're making just about Haiti, what does that say about your opinion of Haiti? Doesn't that imply you are just as racist by that definition as anyone else?

Keep in mind what Hillary did in Haiti has been known for years.

How many politicians, celebrities, and media people that you see going insane today about how trumps a racist said one word about HIllarys actions toward Haiti during the election?

It is very obvious that these people do not care about haiti at all, its just a pawn in a game to attack trump.

Haiti is a ****hole.
Even after western white churches send group after group to the island to help them build clean water systems and schools for kids.

Big waste of time in my opinion.

Thanks for the effort trying to teach those (deliberately?) living in the "valley of the clueless"!
But they never will be willing to see amd accept facts, even if you "stone" them with facts and history. In their post factual world of rightwinger and redneck fake news and Breitbart reality they have their own facts, their own history, their own reality. They are not able to see the beam in their own eyes, but love to hate the mote in everbody else eyes.

You can´t teach un- or undereducated beings that are not willing to be teached, which just want to live in their own little reality, till the Führer is dead and the Trumps and Trumpeteers Fourth Reich becomes a even bigger sh*thole than it is now! Completely destroyed, by the real Axis of the Good then, not only destroyed in huge parts, like it is now.

You could better walk into the next zoo and teach a gorrilla to play chess, would be more successful than trying to teach those that never wanted to learn anything more than what fits into their little rightwinger echo chambers.

If we are honest, Trumpeteers/righwingers mostly don´t love Trump, they love that he made it "politically correct", modern and "hip" again, to hate others, to make others responsible for your own faults and sad life. It´s the same with the neonazis in germany! The "left behind", the unemployed, the "concerned" citizens can´t vote the AfD nazi party to be saved, because if they read their party program, their voters would have mentioned that they are the first that have to suffer from the monster-neo"liberal" manchester-capitalism program of their "idols". But why do they still vote for them. Can´t they read, don´t they want to read that program?

Or is all that of secondary importance if your real reason is just to hate, everybody and loud, in public, if you can yell Sieg Heil again and raise your right arm(to show how high sh*t is stacked in Naziland)?

I am pretty sure those Nazis that ever existed are just happy now that they can speak out loud again, without getting lynched. Therefore they even accept to be fooled again, by "politicians that work only and explicit for the people", even more than before!

Stupidity rules and is not curable by education, if the patient refuses to take the cure!

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Painterz

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Painterz

A more recent episode of why haiti is crappy would be Hillarys scamming of that country.

Goodman: What is the Clinton Foundation controversy in Haiti about?

Ortel: The simple answer is that billions of dollars in “aid” supposedly were raised to help the desperately poor people of Haiti, yet Bill Clinton and the Clinton Foundation refuse to account, in granular and verified fashion, for any of this aid. If Haiti (before the latest storm) had obviously been better off, perhaps this controversy would not now be swirling with hurricane force winds. But accounts from multiple parties suggest that Haiti has little to show in the parts of the nation that were devastated in January 2010.

So Haitians are more than upset over what happened to their missing aid.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Funny, I dont remember even a small percentage of the outrage of Hillary helping cause Haiti to be crappy as trump just calling it that.

Exactly, yes, Hillary is also responsible for reasons why Haiti is in a mess. This interference goes way back to when Haiti first gained it's independence. Wealthy American and Europeans interfering in the country to keep it poor and screwed over.

But stating 'but hilary!' doesn't excuse Trump. We're not talking about Hilary here. But if Hilary had, god help us, become President, I am fairly certain her Haitian meddling would have blown up at some point and become an issue just as this Trump thing has become an issue.

But its not just about trump is it?

Its about the reaction to what he said.

Its about the claims that he is a racist for saying it.

And its about the same people that are most hysterical about Trumps WORDS not giving a damn about HIllarys ACTIONS in harming Haiti.

It shows that they dont really care about Haiti, they just want another excuse to attack trump.

I do see your point.

It's a big world, this debate is large enough for both things to be true, for Trump to be horribly racist, and for a lot of the people upset about him being racist to be two-faced about it.


Perhaps one good thing that can come out of this is maybe more people can be educated about Haiti, and exactly why they are in the mess they are in, and how that is Europe and America's fault, and perhaps we might get more people motivated to do something to help them.

This is thread is a perfect example of 'the problem' with mankinds modern measure of emotions. It's the pathetic hyper sensationalization of everything.

a reply to: DerBeobachter

Bluntone is right!

Group after group goes to Haiti and has forever to try to help the people there. But nothing there ever changes. The island is fatally corrupt on its own. Its own people. Until that fact begins to change and that has to start with Haiti's people, then nothing anyone does will make a lasting impact.

And that patterns repeats itself in country after country.

It's beginning to repeat itself in the US. I imagine its repeating itself in your EU countries right now for all you are denying it and attempting to put yourself on a pseudo-moral pedestal at the moment.

A shathole is a shathole is a shathole, no ifs ands or buts about it.

originally posted by: Painterz

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: Painterz

The UK started the slave trade, Scotland is/was part of the UK empire, therefore all Scots are responsible for African and caribbean countries problems.

Partially, yes. (Except the UK didn't start the slave trade.) Look around at all of the grand glorious buildings we have in the UK and Scotland, and how many of them were built off the back of monies raised from both the slave trade and particularly our imperial plundering of India.

Look at the infrastructure we built with those profits, the railways, the hospitals, the schools. The wealth we were able to build up.

People living in this country personally did not do this, we are not personally responsible, but we have all enjoyed the benefits of what happened during the Empire.

Think how much more infrastructure India could have had if they'd been allowed to spend the wealth extracted from them in India? Do you not think they'd have had a leg up on where they are today if we'd not taken the profits?


This is part of why immigration into the UK from a state that is part of the Commonwealth used to be easier. It was part of how the UK government said to ex-Empire countries okay, we took most of your stuff, but in return you can come and live here, sorry about that.

Cool, while your country lays down and allows its citizens to be taken advantage of, we on the other hand voted someone in to protect our countries economic safety for it's citizens. A lot of us feel our country has been taken advantage of for far to long and quite frankly are completely fed up with it. There is a whole list of countries doing just fine that do nothing to aid these other countries. Our country has been giving aid to 95% of the countries in the world, yet all we get in return is hate from those same countries. So if they don't like us, then why do they take our money and want to immigrate here? Oh I know for their share of my taxpayers money. I'm just glad your #ty take on how our country should run has no weight. There will always be less fortunate people in this world and to blame the U.S. for all it's problems is a drum thats been beat for way to long.

a reply to: Painterz

I dismiss your premise that Trump was being horribly racist by saying this.

Even if you are right in the OP that its other fault that haiti is poor and therefore not acceptable to say that (which I disagree with) it is not racist to say that they are poor.

The point is that not just out in the real world, but even here on ATS, we see people shouting about trumps words tenfold if not more than hillarys actions.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DerBeobachter

Bluntone is right!

Group after group goes to Haiti and has forever to try to help the people there. But nothing there ever changes. The island is fatally corrupt on its own. Its own people. Until that fact begins to change and that has to start with Haiti's people, then nothing anyone does will make a lasting impact.

And that patterns repeats itself in country after country.

It's beginning to repeat itself in the US. I imagine its repeating itself in your EU countries right now for all you are denying it and attempting to put yourself on a pseudo-moral pedestal at the moment.

Did you actually read my post?

Most of the history of 'people going into Haiti to try and help them', has actually been people going into Haiti and stealing, for example, their gold reserves, under the pretense of 'trying to help them'.


People 'trying to help haiti' was landing them with massive loans from American and European banks at ruinous rates of interest that kept their country impoverished since it was founded.


And what you are doing is echoing precisely why what Trump said was racist. You're saying 'The haitians are poor because they are less good than rich white people'. You're saying the Haitians are poor because there is something inherently flawed about being Haitian, about being black. That black people are poor because they are black.

This is a racist statement. I'm sorry if that upsets you. But it's true. Black people in this world are mostly poor because rich white nations have kept them poor in order to steal their wealth.

a reply to: Painterz

IMO you didn't prove why the statement was racist. You showed historical reasons why the place is a crap-hole. You interpreted those reasons as racist, but as BFT has clearly pointed out it was more about money and power than race. Would you consider my statement racist if I point out that most any major city, here in the US, that consistently elects Democratic officials to office, that those cities are worse than some 3rd world nations with violence, poverty, and living conditions? Would my statement be partisan, racist, or just plain fact? It seems people are to quick to call everything racist when sometimes facts are just that...facts.

a reply to: Painterz

Then you didn't read what Bluntone said that I reacted to.

And you didn't further read my post which went on say the pattern of people becoming corrupt repeats in country after country ... inclduding the US and the EU. Or are you implying I only said that because I think too many people in those place are no longer white and only non-white people are corrupt?

If that's seriously what you think, then you need your head examined.

a reply to: Painterz

Okay well the premise of your thread is wrong.

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: Painterz

Calling someone poor or an a-hole isn't racist, regardless of how they got to that state.

If I call Trump a rich moron -- is that racist??

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Fallacy.

To se state a place is an adjective doesnt make your statement inherently imply / apply to its historical origins / ramifications.

i.e.:
If you call someone a POS it doesn't inherently mean you're talking about the persons upbringing / their parents / the school they went to / the friends they had / the friends they have / their first girlfriend / the street they grew up on / their first car.

I'm always for a a good cause history lesson, but it should have been framed about why he coulda shoulda been more delicate about the subject.

Or does ignorance of history actually imply racism on a persons part?

The same adjective could be said for the bulk of India where who doesn't know white British F'd them over for a century, wouldnt make it racist.

In fact, I've heard a black African scholar on NPR radio not 2 months ago argue that colonialism actually had improvements they wouldnt have had in Africa, that the place being stuck on 'dormant' ever since the colonial powers left isnt the fault of the powers.

And int he case of Haiti, is it imperialist powers fault they clear cut the place flat to the ground? Isn't that a leading case of it being a snip hole?

Not to cut US any slack. I'm a staunch a stickler of imperialism as anyone could be, but if we're going to talk about historical ignorance well lets not leave anything out.

Ergo, you might find it odd Indian's apparently aren't particularly bitter with the British for their crimes as they did actually bring lasting infrastructure / education type improvements that many dont expect they'd have had without all that suffering. I myself never expected such sentiments. Yet I do still skewer them for their human rights violations without mercy as that part of the history should never be repeated. Yet even here if a Brit said India is a s-hole it wouldnt make the person a racist.