The Historical Reason Why Calling Haiti A %-Hole Really Is Incredibly Racist.

I'm spinning this off from the thread about Trump's diatribe against Haiti and Africa because I think the historical perspective on why it really is an incredibly racist statement is long enough and complex enough and interesting enough to stand alone. I think also because it's historical, it doesn't belong in the mud-pit.


I'm seeing a lot of people defending Trump by saying what he said was not racist. But I think a lot of people don't understand the very important historical context on this one.

The first thing we have to talk about is the trans-atlantic slave trade. And the way the European and American empires built their wealth. How the wealth of the West was built on stealing other peoples stuff. This is simple historical fact.

For example. The French colony that became Haiti provided much of the wealth that fuelled the French Empire. 2/3rds of the sugar and 3/4rs of the coffee that Europe consumed came from Haiti. This was produced by slaves working the farms. So it was unbelievably profitable for the whites.

The modern country of Haiti was founded on a revolution against this system. The slaves, the poor, they said enough is enough. We are not working to make white foreign slave holders rich.

The European countries and the USA refused to recognise Haiti as a country when they declared their independence. For their temerity in daring to break free from the shackles of slavery. Europe and the USA refused to trade with them for decades.

Haiti eventually got recognition by agreeing to pay a gigantic bribe to the international world. 150 million gold francs to French landowners to 'compensate' them for the loss of their farms and slaves. Haiti paid it, but it took them almost all of the 19th century to do so.

Haiti was forced to borrow large sums of money at ruinous interest rates from American and European bankers to pay this bribe to gain their freedom. In 1914 those very banks got President Wilson of the USA to send US Marines to Haiti to empty/steal the Haitian gold reserve.

There then followed a 19 year US military occupation of Haiti. This resulted in chaos.

The 20th Century did not go much better for them. They suffered systematic theft and oppression from American and European powers. The US invaded again in 94-95, 2004. Because they did not like the governments the Haitians tried to install. They used the IMF and World Bank to impose new loans and destructive trade policies, including the infamous rice tariff that Clinton apologised for but no US president did anything to overturn.



This is why Haiti is a poor ****-hole. They are poor because rich white westerners made them poor, kept them poor, and smashed them back into the stone age every time they tried to get their heads above water.

But Trump and his supporters are assuming Haiti is just naturally poor, maybe because they think black people are lazy, or just not good at building wealth, that's why they come to America isn't it? That's why Trump held up Norway as an example of a good country, they are white, look, they can build wealth. Whites are better than Blacks. That is the message here.

But the fact is Haiti is poor because we made them poor. Poor because we kept them poor.

And this is why Trump's statements yesterday are racist. Even if you personally didn't think they were. You probably didn't consider this greater historical context.

Was he being intentionally racist when he said that?

If he was I completely understand the uproar.

If not then once again we have the public left in a spin due to MSM promoting anything that might upset people in the hope we carry on promoting their divide and conquer agenda.

It really is so simple that people should stop wasting their life writing threads.

a reply to: Painterz

Its not racism. Our government has done this to white nations too.

Its criminal. Smedley butler wrote a book on it being a racket. But it wasnt race...it was money

originally posted by: and14263
Was he being intentionally racist when he said that?

If he was I completely understand the uproar.

If not then once again we have the public left in a spin due to MSM promoting anything that might upset people in the hope we carry on promoting their divide and conquer agenda.

It really is so simple that people should stop wasting their life writing threads.

We obviously cannot tell if he was being intentionally racist. If he understood the historical reason why Haiti is poor, would he have said what he said? Probably not. And I think it's fair to say Trump probably doesn't know the history of Haiti.

But when he threw in the comment about Norway, to make the compare and contrast against the poor Black nations, with the rich White nation, I think we have to ask, why was that comparison in his head? And that's where it becomes racist.

But, this thread is more for the historical perspective.


It's interesting that you're telling me I'm wasting my life writing this thread, did you say that in the 12 page long thread which is defending Trump on this site? Or is it just 'wasting my life' when I'm pointing out uncomfortable yet important historical facts?

How in the ungodly hades are you bringing the US into this ?
I would ask that question in a much stronger version , but I am trying to be just a bit peaceful today
You need a dang history lesson , bad....
Haiti

Poor the feelings out on Hillary Clinton as SoS. She probably wasnt the start but was a fairly good follow - up

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Painterz

Its not racism. Our government has done this to white nations too.

Its criminal. Smedley butler wrote a book on it being a racket. But it wasnt race...it was money

Which white nations are you thinking of?

The only one I can think of is the Lend/lease loans during the war to the United Kingdom, which largely bankrupted the UK and transferred the wealth from the British Empire to the American Empire.

I cannot think of any white nations where America has sent in the marines to overthrow their governments or seize their gold reserves.... but maybe if the UK had refused to pay back the loans, they would have done so here.

In fact, didn't somebody find theoretical plans the Pentagon put together in the 50s for a potential invasion of the UK?



But to be honest, I don't think, 'We did this to the UK too' makes it 'not racist', does it? Trump deliberately compared and contrasted poor black nations with rich white nations.

a reply to: Painterz


Ummm...WE...didn't do a damned thing to the Haitians...

I had no hand in any of that...did you...?

I'm tired of being lumped in with the greedy plunderers...

This is a they situation...no We or I...THEY...

Perhaps if you were leeching off of the public dole...like any good government union stooge...you might have a case...and you might be/no doubt are...part of the problem...


"That's all folks"...



YouSir

a reply to: Painterz

Calling someone poor or an a-hole isn't racist, regardless of how they got to that state.

If I call Trump a rich moron -- is that racist??

originally posted by: Gothmog
How in the ungodly hades are you bringing the US into this ?
I would ask that question in a much stronger version , but I am trying to be just a bit peaceful today
You need a dang history lesson , bad....
Haiti

Because, in the very same link you have linked me to, it says things like this:

"In the first decades of the 20th century Haiti experienced great political instability and was heavily in debt to France, Germany and the United States. Fearing possible foreign intervention, President Woodrow Wilson sent U.S. Marines into Haiti in December 1914, just after the outbreak of World War I. They removed $500,000 from the Haitian National Bank for "safe-keeping" (sic) in New York, thus giving the United States control of the bank"

originally posted by: YouSir
a reply to: Painterz


Ummm...WE...didn't do a damned thing to the Haitians...

I had no hand in any of that...did you...?

I'm tired of being lumped in with the greedy plunderers...

This is a they situation...no We or I...THEY...

Perhaps if you were leeching off of the public dole...like any good government union stooge...you might have a case...and you might be/no doubt are...part of the problem...


"That's all folks"...

YouSir

America didn't do anything to Haiti?

Perhaps you haven't heard of the 1915 American invasion of Haiti?

During the nineteen years of the U.S. occupation, fifteen thousand Haitians were killed.

The US occupation of Haiti during Operation Uphold Democracy in 94?

Here, try reading this:

www.newyorker.com...



And no, of course YOU PERSONALLY did not have a hand in the system of Empire building that the Western powers did, YOU PERSONALLY did not subjugate foreign nations and steal their wealth. But WE all live in rich Western countries that are rich because of our Empires, in a world filled with mostly poor nations that are poor because we stole all of their wealth and used it to build the infrastructure of our nations back during Empire days.

We didn't do it. But we do enjoy the advantages of it.

Would've been better if he called them DEPLORABLE. Juvenile name-calling such as "racist" is the user's last resort when they can't back up their beliefs with valid facts. I see it 24/7 from ADULTS on the left in social media. Sad. a reply to: Painterz

a reply to: Painterz


I agree with you and applaud your efforts, but this kind of thing is like showing card tricks to a dog.

a reply to: Painterz


Let's not tell people the truth. There are countries that are horrible, that's why people risk their lives trying to leave.

Me myself, I'm more concerned about my Fellow Americans and our Country first and foremost. Once we fix all our problems, then we can go and save the rest of the world and right wrongs.

Telling people the truth hurts, I get it. I'd rather we take care of America before Haiti or whatever other country that's like that.

But that's probably racist to some here.

a reply to: Painterz

The UK started the slave trade, Scotland is/was part of the UK empire, therefore all Scots are responsible for African and caribbean countries problems.

Fallacy.

To se state a place is an adjective doesnt make your statement inherently imply / apply to its historical origins / ramifications.

i.e.:
If you call someone a POS it doesn't inherently mean you're talking about the persons upbringing / their parents / the school they went to / the friends they had / the friends they have / their first girlfriend / the street they grew up on / their first car.

originally posted by: dividedwefall
Would've been better if he called them DEPLORABLE. Juvenile name-calling such as "racist" is the user's last resort when they can't back up their beliefs with valid facts. I see it 24/7 from ADULTS on the left in social media. Sad. a reply to: Painterz

Dude, I've just written several hundred words of historical valid facts about why the statement actually is 'racist'. I didn't deploy the word as a juvenile name calling, but as an illustration that comments from the President of the USA about a country like Haiti come with significant historical context that illustrate a deep and profound sense of racial superiority/inferiority that has come to be known as 'racism'.

If you want to be the adult here, why don't you read the historical context I've outlined above and offer your perspective on how it isn't racist to call Haiti a *-hole?

Racism is all opinion anyway and frankly the charges of it are getting really boring. What I want to know is the answer to Trump’s question. Why ARE we taking so many people from these crappy countries?

The man hit the nail on the head. Let’s stop talking about semantics and answer the question. I want to know.

a reply to: lakenheath24

The UK started the slave trade,

Yes, the U.K. must have been responsible for supplying the slaves that built The Egyptian Pyramids.

a reply to: Metallicus

Apparently it's because a lot of people are convinced everything about the crappy (see what I did there) state of their countries is all our fault, so we need import their crap here.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: Painterz

The UK started the slave trade, Scotland is/was part of the UK empire, therefore all Scots are responsible for African and caribbean countries problems.

Partially, yes. (Except the UK didn't start the slave trade.) Look around at all of the grand glorious buildings we have in the UK and Scotland, and how many of them were built off the back of monies raised from both the slave trade and particularly our imperial plundering of India.

Look at the infrastructure we built with those profits, the railways, the hospitals, the schools. The wealth we were able to build up.

People living in this country personally did not do this, we are not personally responsible, but we have all enjoyed the benefits of what happened during the Empire.

Think how much more infrastructure India could have had if they'd been allowed to spend the wealth extracted from them in India? Do you not think they'd have had a leg up on where they are today if we'd not taken the profits?


This is part of why immigration into the UK from a state that is part of the Commonwealth used to be easier. It was part of how the UK government said to ex-Empire countries okay, we took most of your stuff, but in return you can come and live here, sorry about that.