Sometimes Whole Civilizations Just Vanish

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Yes, but there are other location's such as Poanape with it's Nan Madol ruin's, possibility's of advanced society's - pre Maori in New Zealand with several sites off limit's to the public and to archaeologists as well.

In the case of Rappa Nui - easter island we have an explanation or at least a partial one, over population with limited resources leading to societal collapse, civil war and the complete annihilation of the Long Ears whom were the noble cast of the island.

Poanape offers a possibility that the ruin's are potentially either far older than is currently accepted OR that the island has subsided and substantial territory once capable of supporting a much larger population than today has been lost to the sea since there are rumor's of ruin's under the water to Nan Madol but much deeper meaning that the ruin's we see today could have been built by the population of the older city as the water rose whom may then have been able to subsist for a time on fishing alone until they had over fished the region.

Here however is a far more reasonable explanation for the sunken city, still two city's on a tiny island?.
www.pohnpei-adventure.com...

Then of course there are the mysterious cultures whom lived under ground in Anatolia, the builders of Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku in Bolivia and of course so very many more from South Africa to the Arctic, from the east to the west and of course like these island city's often in the most unexpected places.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie



six mins in to the vid you can see spindle gears made from a very hard stone. That's from the Cairo Museum, it proves that the maths they had were put to practical use. This type of gearing is modern. Which makes you think perhaps their lathes and machine tools were made of stone

It also seems to have been in the gear cluster and has been subjected to extreme wear on most of the face.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: FauxMulder

Perhaps "Climate Change"? i know it is "not politically correct" to say that "Climate Change has happened in the past", but we do know that several ancient people had to migrate to new areas because of dramatic climate changes have occurred in the past.

The greedy bastards just couldn't stop cooking meat, putting all that smoke in the atmosphere, and they just HAD to create all that godforsaken bronze, and iron, and what have you...deforestation from all the ship and fort/wall building. they just loved having a life of convenience so much that they raped mother earth and didn't think of the consequenses... we should learn from them before its too late my friend...

a reply to: anonentity

Kind of put's a new spin on Heron (Also called by the name Hero) of Alexandria and a possible source of technical inspiration not in his own mind.
en.wikipedia.org...
www.elixirofknowledge.com...
Hmm what if he did not simply invent these contraptions but was inspired from a more ancient source of knowledge and invention than himself.

a reply to: LABTECH767


Yes pockets of technical knowledge left in diverse places all over the globe, waiting for global communications to put it all together again. It was probably a different technology, but it 's amazing what you can do with a constant running water supply, and a few belts. Along with a bit of time to invent a solution.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Thecakeisalie



six mins in to the vid you can see spindle gears made from a very hard stone. That's from the Cairo Museum, it proves that the maths they had were put to practical use. This type of gearing is modern. Which makes you think perhaps their lathes and machine tools

were made of stone

It also seems to have been in the gear cluster and has been subjected to extreme wear on most of the face.

Those are part of a grain grinding mill, I believe, and they're not THAT old (800 BC or thereabouts.) It's comparable to other technology around the Mediterranean at the same time.

Ditto the iron tools. Egypt gets reliable iron tools sometime around the New Kingdom.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: anonentity

Kind of put's a new spin on Heron (Also called by the name Hero) of Alexandria and a possible source of technical inspiration not in his own mind.
en.wikipedia.org...
www.elixirofknowledge.com...
Hmm what if he did not simply invent these contraptions but was inspired from a more ancient source of knowledge and invention than himself.

Then he would have done more with it than make a few toys and improve ways to make religious statues move and speak (to impress the masses.) His inventions are actually pretty basic. Had there been more, he could have done much more.

originally posted by: 3n19m470

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: FauxMulder

Perhaps "Climate Change"? i know it is "not politically correct" to say that "Climate Change has happened in the past", but we do know that several ancient people had to migrate to new areas because of dramatic climate changes have occurred in the past.

The greedy bastards just couldn't stop cooking meat, putting all that smoke in the atmosphere, and they just HAD to create all that godforsaken bronze, and iron, and what have you...deforestation from all the ship and fort/wall building. they just loved having a life of convenience so much that they raped mother earth and didn't think of the consequenses... we should learn from them before its too late my friend...

You should see how much destruction non-technological humans leave on the planet. Humans are not tidy creatures, and the lower the tech the bigger the mess.

a reply to: FauxMulder

Also (returning to the topic), the groups mentioned are not civilizations but cultures.

Cultures tend to be groups fairly small in number, with no centralized government, few to no domestic animals and plants, and little ability to farm. Cultures tend to vanish simply because something larger comes in and takes over.

In the case of the Clovis people, it's not so much "vanished" as "stopped using the technology." Clovis points are only good for hunting huge animals like mammoths. If you have no mammoths, you have no need for those points and so you make smaller points.... but the identifying trait of your culture (those massive stone spearpoints) is now gone even though you haven't gone anywhere. Your culture just changed.

The Picts (as others said) did not vanish but were conquered... or merged with the Scotti and with other tribes.

And this is the problem with your initial thesis... these are not actual civilizations and they don't exactly vanish overnight but instead meet outside forces and begin a decline as their small centers of power get taken over by others.

Nothing as large as a civilization (cities, farms, government, the whole thing) has vanished overnight. Over time, yes, overnight, no. A culture (small centers of power, no big governing body) can vanish in a few weeks or months (depending on the group's size.)

a reply to: Byrd

Morning Bryd,

With respect to Clovis, it is beginning look like Clovis blade making skills were somewhat "lost" during the Younger Dryas as the daughter cultures, folsom, redstone, cumberland etc., developed there seemed to be a decrease in overall mfg quality.
This is very appearant the newer and further away from the core Clovis areas.
The points found in Mex., Ca, Washington, while having the basic characteristics of classic Clovis, they just arent quite the same. To me they represent copies made withouit knowing the actual method of mfg.

And I am of the opinion that they are actually butchering knife blades and that bone,antler and smaller stone points were used for killing points.

It also seems to me that Clovis wasnt as mobile as people had thought. Sure they sourced materials from all over, but they also lived in villages and dug wells. And a new analysis of points is showing that its likely one person or a very small group of commonly trained individuals made a large number of points found all through the central US. Their widely spread distribution and material sources precludes the makers of the points being the agency by which they spread.

a reply to: GreenGunther

Well despite weather you can see it in todays world.
Or weather anyone else can. Gods word is supported by flood stories handed down from over
200 cultures world wide and any thinking person
Should give that more credit than todays obviously
Biased science. Science that closes its mind is politics not science.