Sometimes Whole Civilizations Just Vanish

a reply to: FauxMulder

Some here I hadn't heard about, and certainly material for further reading!

Nicely done.

a reply to: intrptr

Yes,so they have here in new Zealand ,why should we be surprised by this?

a reply to: FauxMulder


Thanks I will have a look.

originally posted by: hiddenNZ
a reply to: intrptr

Yes,so they have here in new Zealand ,why should we be surprised by this?

I'm not surprised, only saddened.

originally posted by: Murgatroid
a reply to: Hecate666

Again IF science were 'done properly' you would be correct...

The science establishment is like the medical model – sterilized white suits with unchallengeable answers sent down to us from sacred Mount Know-It-All. Until they’re disproven. Time and again. Unfortunately, much of the scientific community is blackmailed into towing the party line or they’ll lose their research grants or places in the scientific hierarchy or University system.

Still, I have no respect for anyone who cows to that, for whatever reason. It’s because people won’t stand up that humanity is becoming a full-on slave race. These NWO pushers are everywhere. And they love the cloak of their bastardized “science” to supposedly validate their programs.

www.zengardner.com...

So what's the debate about? You just agreed that science is a good thing if done properly as it should. Which in the majority of cases it is. I know, I've worked in sciences for many years.
I never disagreed that science can be abused or used for nefarious reasons, hence my emphasis on 'properly'.

So you agree with what I said and I agree with what you posted, the only gripe I have is with your generalisation as seen on the 'meme' you posted.

You can't just say 'science' is bad because of XYZ, because [as said before] science isn't a religion or a belief or a person or an opinion, it is a formula to get the most correct data via a specified way of doing things. It can not be bad. Only humans can make it bad.

Don't blame science, it's innocent. Blame corrupt people and gullibles that don't understand what science means.........at all.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: Byrd

OK, where did I confuse them? Are you talking about because I wrote Sanxingdui Culture? That is the name it goes by.

Byrd means that none of the peoples you listed are classified as civilizations.
It's a term of Anthropological classification that you are using incorrectly here.

Harte

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: FauxMulder


I was looking at a video the other day of the distribution of standing stones in Britain, one can see that all the remaining ones are on high ground. With none on the lower Eastern side, it occurred that when Dogerland went under, its entirely feasible that most of the British Isles on the lower Eastern side could have been inundated, Which could date the stones at a greater age than previously thought. That is the sea level went up and swallowed a lot of land, then receded a bit until what you have left today where the inundated places have no standing stones.

There is quite a lot of evidence that there was large scale (for the time) settlement on Dogerland. Underwater archaeologists find quite a lot of artefacts from samples dredged up from areas that used to be good land there.

a reply to: Harte

Ok, thanks.

a reply to: FauxMulder

excellent thread, being a Scot I am a fan of the Picts

the people over at forgotten languages are interested in them too as they are pre indo european culture
its interesting that nothing is really known about their language or their customs

i've read that their disappearance was due to their amalgamation with the scots , and various other local groups through marriage etc

Im still really interested in them because of the tri skele found at newton grange
and interesting symbol

It would be amazing to find some pict writing I dont think there are any examples known

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: FauxMulder

excellent thread, being a Scot I am a fan of the Picts

the people over at forgotten languages are interested in them too as they are pre indo european culture
its interesting that nothing is really known about their language or their customs

i've read that their disappearance was due to their amalgamation with the scots , and various other local groups through marriage etc

Im still really interested in them because of the tri skele found at newton grange
and interesting symbol

It would be amazing to find some pict writing I dont think there are any examples known

There are some Ogham, or Ogham-esque writing inscriptions on Pictish monuments. But we've never been able to decipher them.

The really wacky thing is there are a number of Pictish carvings that show Picts with books. But we've never found a single Pictish book.

a reply to: FauxMulder

This may have already been posted somewhere, but who is to say these cultures didn't just "advance"? I mean look at America; our culture of just 100 years ago is sooooooo far removed from the culture of today. We traded our magazines, books (for the most part) and writing utensils in for tablets, touch screens, and stylists (very generally speaking). Where did the old culture (civilization..) go?

Take transport for example too; our horse bridles, saddles, horse shoes, etc have been traded in for cars, trucks and trains and planes. Some one looking at our culture 1000 years from now will see the great change over from one technological civilization to another and will think the past culture died out or mysteriously "disappeared". When in fact we are the SAME civilization only more advanced.

Look at how we read information today; on PDF's, computers, and databases, CD's, thumb drives, hard drives etc. None of these can be read without the right interface. Maybe the same is true for the older(est) civilization. Maybe such Ooparts could account for this, we just don't know how to read there storage devices. Could a back woods Amazon tribesman read a CD if we gave him one?

a reply to: Painterz

thats it Im on a quest to find a pictish burial site and maybe even a book

I bet there is one in the vatican !

Great OP. Ancient cultures have always fascinated me. On the disappearances, I tend to take the war/invasion view. That doesn't necessarily mean they were all killed though. Conquered peoples are often forced into slavery or at least forced to assimilate into the culture of the conquerors. Hence you would see an abrupt decline in the types of artifacts that hint to the presence of the conquered people.

a reply to: randyvs

Just throwing this out there

culdiantrust.org...

Edit: I don't agree with their 'theology' but from an historical perspective perhaps their documents are realistic.

a reply to: sapien82

they are pre indo european culture

what are you talking about?

The Picts were a tribal confederation of peoples who lived in what is today eastern and northern Scotland during the Late Iron Age and Early Medieval periods. They are thought to have been ethnolinguistically Celtic. Where they lived and what their culture was like can be inferred from the geographical distribution of brochs, Brittonic place name elements, and Pictish stones. Picts are attested to in written records from before the Roman conquest of Britain to the 10th century, when they are thought to have merged with the Gaels. They lived to the north of the rivers Forth and Clyde, and spoke the now-extinct Pictish language, which is thought to have been closely related to the Celtic Brittonic language spoken by the Britons who lived to the south of them

Picts

a reply to: punkinworks10

The Picts remind me of the Woads in the 2004 movie King Arthur, the Celtic rebels that held off the Romans from invading northern Britain and wore full body war paint. Is this simply a movie trope or is there some basis to that? Hollywood obviously isn't the best source of history.

originally posted by: stormcell
Clovis people have been thought to have disappeared due to a extreme solar flare event or even a distant supernova that caused intense bombarbment of the North American continent. It would have damaged the DNA of every mammal and even the North polar ice sheets. It was thought to have taken the Earth out of the ice age.

Even the Wiki page directed to by the OP states: "Clovis people are considered to be the ancestors of most of the indigenous cultures of the Americas."
We're talking a change in culture and technology...not the disappearance of a population.

a reply to: face23785

As terrible as that was, it was pretty accurate as to the "texture" of the period, though the brittons' representation as wild tribesmen is just a re enforcement of roman bias. The brittons, and they came in many flavors, were a urbanized society, not just wildmen men running around in the forest half naked all the time.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: face23785

As terrible as that was, it was pretty accurate as to the "texture" of the period, though the brittons' representation as wild tribesmen is just a re enforcement of roman bias. The brittons, and they came in many flavors, were a urbanized society, not just wildmen men running around in the forest half naked all the time.

Thanks for the info.

a reply to: punkinworks10

I thought that they had been there since the last ice age

my bad I thought they were there since before civilisation began in Iran / Iraq

im confusing this with the ice age peoples of the northern and western isles , orkeny etc, and skara brae
I thought the picts were descendants of those peoples

compared to other sources as to the origins of the picts that would make more sense to me !