Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: The GUT

Uncle Sam does indeed seem to promote belief in the Roswell-era mythologies rather than try to cover-up E.T. as I used to believe.

Yep again like I said a bit earlier in the thread.

What we now have in the UFO community is a default position of distrust in anything the government says on the subject. But somewhat paradoxically a need to look for information from officialdom that supports their version of the truth.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

originally posted by: Willtell
The basic problem here folks may be this.

With scientific advancement without an equivalent moral or spiritual advancement may have brought the little grey, green or black men amongst us because...

The idea of focusing on “consciousness” without the virtues of the heart is probably to some very problematic

Give a kid an atomic bomb, indeed the reality that we have a president who is morally a child yet has the power to incinerate the planet is a LIVE metaphor!

take heed

Back in the day, when there were far more kundalini shamans around, if a student started to show signs
of the process operating, but they didn't have the moral development, they would flat out be killed
by their fellows. If they claimed to be "enlightened" and made a single mistake in predictions,
they would be killed. That's the oral history I was given. So by those standards, I should have been
killed a few times now...

Yes.. I agree with you vigorously.

KPB you’re a funny guy.

No no no, I don’t advocate killing people who don’t advance morally, I mean who’s to judge.


The point is too much technology while where still in the war, crime, rape, mentally illness rampant mode is dangerous.


Such kinds of people who do what you describe sound like folks from Indiana Jones movies

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: The GUT


i wish that all of us... all those weird researchers.. and us internet
conspiracy and mystical types, could come in out of the rain together..
for a better world..

I would be content to just have ten minutes in low Earth orbit so I can personally observe Earth with my own two eyes and the bodies above.

Disillusionment comes easy after you become savvy to so many untrue truths that it leaves you seriously questioning everything and not accepting anything other than one's own observations.

As such, in regards to the above, if such a thing transpired would be just as unbelievable as anything else.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

It actually makes me very uncomfortable to say anything about Dr. Vallee..
I don't want to jam him up, or be one of those idiots who misquotes him..
or shares confidences he doesn't want shared.

But I'd also like to dispel most of the mythos that swirls around
someone like him..

Other characters may be "shady". But not him.

I very much respect Dr. Vallee. He's asked some of the premier questions of our time amongst many other accomplishments. We also have his own words to go on. He's known Kit and Hal a LONG time. Here are some of his own words from FS II:

Kit is in close contact with most of the UFO groups, so his interest is only confidential among the uninformed. Right now he is on his way to Houston, where Valerie Ransone and a group of contactees have promised he would witness materializations. But what are his true intentions?…

There is no way to know what really goes on, and who pulls the strings. And even the bright ones can easily be fooled by their own system or fool themselves.

It is becoming obvious to both of us that some of the rumors about extraterrestrials have been planted, perhaps as a cover to esoteric weapons systems, or as part of psychological warfare exercises in which ufologists are a convenient test bed.

Messsengers of Deception emerges slowly in the media, stressing the hypothesis that some UFO cases are the result of psychological manipulation by the military.

I won't see Kit on this trip. Sadly, in spite of my admiration for his sharp intellect, there's a barrier between us. He's cleared for all kinds of secrets to which I have no access. It's pointless to talk, and I can't trust his bosses with my information. I carry my notes for Network Revolution. There is much to say about the world of computers we are building, the ““solid-state society”” on the distant horizon.

Sealed in boxes, our UFO library is ready to be loaded into the truck and driven away to a rented storage place where it will spend the next few years. I feel lighter and freer now, this mass of information pushed out of my life. I haven't found out what UFOs were, but I did change the level of the problem.

Too bad I can't say more in Messengers. As Frank Pace pointed out, I am condemned to understatements.

In Messengers of Deception, Dr. Vallee explores ufological deception from, mainly, two angles. The seemingly deceptive nature of the anomalous phenomenon itself and deception by frauds and intelligence agencies.

I get the sense, over and over in Forbidden Science II--and Messengers of Deception--that he has a burning desire for truth. He leaves bread crumbs but, as he stated above, he is, "condemned to understatements." That he returns time and again to the theme of intelligence agencies and ufological deception is quite remarkable.

It appears that he wants to tell us…and maybe he's done the best he can.

a reply to: mirageman

I would bet that it happened like this.

A big shot calls TDL to a meeting. He goes and it is dictated to him how it’s going to go: consequently the roll out of the NYT story and TTS academy.

He’s told in no uncertain terms, it’s going to happen this way or you don’t leave this room. Or some such coercion or maybe just a carrot—his entertainment division.

He just doesn’t control this anymore

Valerie Ransone pops up in Forbidden Science III...apparently working for the NRO as some kind of honeypot. I'd share more, but I need to find my copy for that...

Some more info here:
ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.ca...

4. 30 July 1989 pp 411-412 Richard Niemtzow. 'This lead us to a wide ranging discussion of the role of various agencies in the UFO business and we came to talk about Kit. Richard reminisced about the time when he and John Schuessler were almost 'recruited' by a woman who claimed to be working for a private investigation service in Houston. When they came to her office for a meeting about UFOs they found a dozen people working behind desks which were so neat and devoid of paperwork as if to seem unnatural, and they quickly came to a conclusion the whole thing was a setup. "Was the woman named Valerie Ransone?" I asked Richard. He seemed puzzled to find that I knew her and her operations. "Did you ever find out who she was working for? he asked. I confessed that I did not. "Schuessler tracked her down through his channels at McDonnell-Douglas. It turned out she was an agent for NRO, working with the Navy. Kit, who took care of her medically, once told me that she was amazing; she knew four times as many people as the both of us did." I laughed at that" "She also looks a lot better than both of you guys." I pointed out. "A woman as beautiful and articulate as she was would have no difficulty being invited to lunch by any company president. That didn't necessarily mean she had access." "There's something else Jacques. When I revealed to Kit, over lunch, that I knew her affiliations, he practically chocked on his food. He told me not to mention her again at the restaurant. I've only had that reaction from him twice in all the time I've known him."

I find this interesting because not only do we have a TTS type company, but here's Kit Green doing his medical stuff...in 1989.





edit: if I'm coming off too esoteric or whatever, please feel free to ask me to elaborate. I don't mean to be putting people off or anything...I just forget about the wider audience.

a reply to: 1ofthe9

For how often his name comes up and for all the context, Kit very much seems to be a gatekeeper.

For him to respond like he did also shows he could have been directly responsible for the meet up with said Honeypot.

A little more from Vallee in FS II. Dr. Hal Puthoff is another cat that had his paw in the SERPO cookie jar and now TTS. A onetime Scientologist of high-ranking and another who has portrayed himself as a believer in the ETH. Maybe he is these days, but back then (70s) he seems to lean towards the IDH…or at least that's what he's apparently leading Jacques to believe.

…When our conversation returned to the undercurrent and the activities of the government, Hal insisted it was time for me to meet his spooky friends. ““I'm ready, if they mean business. Where are they hiding?””…““They're getting nowhere,”” Hal said in frustration... ““They have no concept of the Magonia angle; they still see the topic in terms of extraterrestrial technology, propulsion systems, space hardware.”..

…Hal's contact is a boyish fellow, Dr. Christopher Green nicknamed Kit, a dynamic bespectacled young man of medium build with alert brown eyes. He holds a doctorate in biology, exudes optimism and refreshing humor…

Kit Green, Pat Price, & Hal Puthoff Back in tha' Day

…I had lunch with Pat Price and Hal Puthoff. A temporary clearance is being setup to enable me to visit Kit Green next month in hopes to better understand the chessboard. Oddly enough, in this situation, it is the individual researcher who is in the best position to gain an understanding. As I extend my contacts in Washington it is that precious freedom that I must preserve above everything else…

Don't do it, Jacques! Darn, 4 decades too late. Kind of sounds like the same trap that Bill Moore fell into.

How about we talk about the information age now as MM and Will suggest. And how the masters thereof considered it's usage:

The Planning Network (PLANET) was the first ARPANET chat system, predating the Internet. PLANET was invented by Jacques Vallee, Roy Amara, Robert Johansen, and others from the Institute of the Future in 1973.

It was the first chat program designed for the ARPANET, and enabled anybody on the network to log into the system. PLANET was used in a series of evaluation studies, and had a considerable influence on those that used it and later research.

www.livinginternet.com...

He did a lot more than that, but that gives an idea of Vallee being there from square one and his in-depth understanding of information networks and potentialities. Now, Ft. Meade and games:

I spent two fine hours in the office of Tom Belden, a legendary analyst at the Institute for Defense Analyses. He came to pick me up in Kit's office and said with a chuckle, as he guided me down the wide corridors of the CIA at Langley, ““Do you realize that I have to use this bloody Agency as my cover?”

...The day was spent training NSA analysts at Fort Meade. There was a funny moment: sitting at a classified terminal to demonstrate Planet over the Arpanet…

…He told me stories about the early use of conferencing in the Intelligence community. We discussed crisis simulation games on computer networks, a subject on which I was eager to have his wisdom. He explained why multilingual computer conferences should use interpreters rather than translators, and told me about the ingenious research games he had invented to create standardized conflict simulations within dispersed groups…

…Kit came over for a long talk about Lopez Rega, the cults of California and my theories of control systems.

In the second-to-the-last-paragraph above I've emphasized some key terms: Intelligence community, and Belden remarking on. "ingenious research games he had invented to create standardized conflict simulations within dispersed groups." Those simulations being done on networked people we might note.

a reply to: The GUT

Okay. in keeping with the KISS principal (Keep It Simple Stupid), here are a few thoughts.

On page seven of this thread, you mentioned a conversation with a Dr. Green quoted below.

"There were three spaceships that came here over thirty years, and we've got one of them. We can't figure out how it works, we've crashed it because there's a lot of physics that we've still got to learn. We do have something that's like a magnethydrodynamic toroid, and it really did get a craft of the ground, but it smelled bad and it killed a couple of pilots. And we're really sorry about that, but we did it because we've got this machine that came from another planet, and we need to know how it works." '

Source: Link to post in this thread.

So let's believe this guy spoke a truth for a moment that they may have an intact spaceship.

This would give them:

* Samples of the "exotic" materials. This may account for some of the sudden advancement of technology over the last fifty years and the military/intelligence aspects.

* The "exotic" science of quantum physics. Having to work out how the spaceship works may account for the appearance of quantum physics and advances there.

Now let's say that the spaceship is operated by thought.

* Working out how to pilot the spaceship would account for the interest in the occult and paranormal. KPB knows a lot about the antennae side of things in this thread.

* They would need to find a potential pilot in the short term.

* In the long term they would need to know how to create pilots for when the spaceships start rolling off the production lines.

Now let's consider that the spaceship is, or has an organic(?) living consciousness or is at least semi organic.

This would account for the need for specialists in parasitology, biomedical technology, etc. as mirageman wrote in this post quoted below:

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: The GUT

A quick glance over the bios reveals one thing. Below the layer of former intelligence people there is something else that jumps out. The people who didn't appear at the empty arena launch all seem to have backgrounds in biology.

Dr. Garry Nolan is a Genetics Technologies Consultant & Professor in the Department of Microbiology and Immunology at Stanford University School of Medicine.

Dr. Paul Rapp is the Brain Function & Consciousness Consultant & Professor of Military and Emergency Medicine at the Uniformed Services University

Dr. Norm Kahn is a National Security & Program Management Consultant currently a consultant on national security for the US Government, with a focus on preventing the use of biological weapons of mass destruction/disruption.

Dr. Colm Kelleher is the Biotech Consultant (biochemist).

Dr. Adele Gilpin is the Biomedical Research & Attorney. A scientist with biomedical academic and research experience as well as an active, licensed, attorney.

Even Luis Elizondo's academic background includes Microbiology, Immunology and Parasitology, with research experience in tropical diseases. Luis is also an inventor who holds several patents.

Source: link to post in this thread

In a nutshell Just maybe someone had a living (semi?) organic spaceship that operates via telepathy hidden away somewhere.

They would need to find a way to engineer a telepathic pilot who won't go insane when he or she mentally interfaces with the machine.

Just an educated guess.

---------------------------------------

For people like myself who have trouble understanding how quantum physics in relation to UFOs and consciousness might work, here is a ten minute video by physicist Jack Sarfatti that gave me a basic understanding of quantum physics in fairly layman's terms.

Vallee continues in FS II. He further defines Kit's attitudes in those days.

On the way to the Capital, and from there to New Orleans...I plan to come home through El Paso where I'll meet with Dr. Green, still in medical school. I expect we will argue again about the reality of UFOs and mutilations, both of which he keeps denying…I am unimpressed by people with secret clearances. UFOs and psychic phenomena are best studied in the field, not in the secrecy of Washington circles…

…I think of the UFO phenomenon as a kaleidoscope with three levels: a purely physical, technological level; a sociological level; and finally a personal, subliminal level playing on the subtleties of the human psyche. The first aspect could spell out an extraterrestrial origin;

the second one, if taken by itself, would point to human mythology and anthropology: that is the explanation favored by Kit and sophisticated skeptics, as opposed to Menzel and Klass, who flatly deny everything.

The third aspect is ominous: it provides a hint of a darker, terrestrial origin, earthly manipulation.

The bolding above is mine, of course, to point out item two. One of Dr. Green's ever-changing explanations for MJ-12 & Serpo indicated he believed some of it was true. And things change a lot in 30+ years I admit. Maybe he became a believer in E.T.

Bear with me while we revisit journalist Guy Russo's article from much later. What does seem consistent is Dr. Green's alleged interest in "sociological groupthink," and faked UFO data that smell an awful lot like "viral memes":

In that article titled Is Uncle Sam a Closet Ufologist? we find some interesting information pertaining to our subject from a fellow called by the pseudonym, "Jim" who has been identified by various researchers as Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green:

Then there is Jim, whose professional history in the subject goes back to his personal involvement in the Stargate project in the 1970’s and as a participant in the legendary “Working Group” meetings in the eighties. As one of the intel community’s most senior medical analysts, Jim frequently communicates with UFOlogists.

Chris Iverson believes that Tom and Jim clearly have differing agendas, noting, “Jim is the person I have had the most contact with over the last several months and he seems to be interested in the spreading of viral memes over the internet, particularly in relation to this subject.”…

“The whole subject,” Jim says in wonderfully measured speech, “is composed of three components: delusion, sociological groupthink, and a kernel of truth.” Jim then reminds that he is first and foremost a medical scientist. “My interest in this subject is much, much more professional than it is personal. That is, 90 to 95% of all persons who are engaged fully with this [UFO] subject are psychiatrically ill, and by that I mean that they are on medication or should be.”

Jim elaborates that “viral memes,”[see below] in which disturbed people seek validation in numbers on the web, is, or should be, a growing public health concern. That said, Jim nonetheless has a real interest in UFO’s, and seemingly with good reason.

Both Tom and Jim seem to share at least one rationale for their internet excursions: studying the frightening potential of “viral internet memes.”

Coined by evolutionary theorist Richard Dawkins in 1976 (The Selfish Gene), a meme is a unit of cultural information that evolves the way a gene propagates from one organism to another, and subject to all the analogous unintended mutations. In the view of many, computers and blogs could function as powerful meme “replicators.”

Richard Brodie, the creator of Microsoft Word, notes, “Most of these viruses of the mind are spread because they are intriguing or frightening or inspiring, and not necessarily because they're true. That's the problem.” It doesn’t take much intuition to envision an enemy creating memes that can be used to destabilize a society, or a freelance predator utilizing them to cozy up to potential victims. Caryn Anscomb writes online,

“The UFO community has been deeply penetrated by the manipulators of information, who couldn’t really give a fig whether there might be any valuable data pertaining to Aliens and contact hidden behind the deafening noise. That’s not their business; their business is information warfare.”

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Okay, now back to something I consider important from Jacques as he continues in FS II:

Something bothers me about such conversations with Kit: We speak past each other. I try to make him see the reality of the phenomenon because he's one of the few people in a position to bring the subject up before decision-makers, but he continues to deny it, in academic terms that don’’t take the facts into account.

This made me think of the Intelligence boys I have met. Either they don't know about such incidents, in which case they are poor analysts, or they do know and they've never shared the information, in which case they're playing games. Kit keeps explaining away the sightings by a combination of witness unreliability, fugue states, paraphrenia, or unspecified ““anthro-pological”” factors; none of which accounts for the hard core data.

Another factor freezing open debate is the meddling of the Intelligence services into a domain of research that should be allowed, above all others, to blossom freely.

And maybe even most important and obviously from the heart; Jacques isn't quite through with what seems like frustration born of experience with intelligence agency elements:

It is difficult for a scientist who is used to the culture of open criticism and honest exchange of data to feel respect for the methods of shadowy agents who invade your personal life, listen to your phone calls, open your mail, interrogate your kids in your absence and feed you false information, all in the name of some supposed higher duty to the security of the nation they claim to serve.

In my limited contacts with the agencies involved, I have met some of the brightest people I will ever know in this life, and some of the most despicable and sometimes crazy characters.

Some rather disturbing insinuations in the above. With those kind of experiences, I bet one does start assessing those around them:

“Do you work for the CIA?”” I asked him directly. He swore to me that he did not, although he had been indeed ““approached,”” as I had surmised. Brendan[O'Reagan] and I share the same reaction to the Intelligence community: Some fascination, mixed with disgust. ““These guys are unreliable, their contacts can't be trusted,”” I said. ““Not only that, but they keep playing games,”” he replied. ““You’’re right to stay away.”

Has Jacques Control System theory been hijacked? If so can we trust those who did? The literal weaponization of myth and narrative?


Forbidden Science II

a reply to: The GUT

GUT who financed Vallee in his scientific research of UFOS?

a reply to: The GUT

GUT, that was one of the most beautiful mini-posts ever. You really do get it about Dr. Vallee.

As for Dr. Vallee, this line: "I can't trust his bosses with my information" is most telling.

At that time, and maybe it has changed, or maybe it has not.. but that tells me he is loathe to
give more power to intelligence agencies, unless it is within his scope of work. (I'm just assuming
this here).

I'd also like to mention, that Dr. Vallee is great at data analysis, especially as a database analyst..
so he would be SALIVATING to get his hands on "government data", so he could analyze it, to
create new science.

That kind of data is basically impossible to get one's hands on. But without it, there is little or
no possibility for good research. You wind up BS'ing on the Internet, with barely a candle in the
dark.

A man like him would be in a most difficult position at all times.

I've only met him once in my life, and we talked for maybe 5 hours.

I wonder what, if any easter eggs he wanted to drop that i missed?

I'm a bit dense.

There was nothing overt really..

I would go on for an hour about one of my theories, and he'd interrupt if
I made a logical error.. but otherwise he let me talk. I talked far more
than he did of course.

it seems he agreed with me quite a lot.. as I discussed all the issues
with various theories.. he never once revealed anything, of this i am
certain.

But it's the conversations we had, that had the most interest and the
least objections, that have fascinated me the most ever since.

Dr. Vallee doesn't say much over email.. I can't blame him.. given
the leaking sieve that the Internet is for private information.

If I get another good idea, I'll write up a paper again.. and maybe
we can have a lengthy conversation again.

Thanks for your fair treatment and great posts GUT. You are a treasure.

Kev

a reply to: Willtell

I've got some answers from here and there, but that's pretty complicated and we'd also have to define his research a bit broader than UFO but overlapping considering his Interdimensional Hypothesis.

He did a lot with his own money from books and such. But from his time with J. Allen Hynek there were various funded projects. Then there's the Stanford University and SRI stuff. It would be a long list including Robert Bigelow.

a reply to: The GUT

Thanks...

If I may indulge you again.

What was the deal on he and Hynek giving that computer over to Bennewitz

Any info on that caper?

Was that part of his research?


Btw anyone can take a bite of these questions

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

I"m 99% certain that he was using a metaphor about the ships, and was using the usual disinformation
mantra, because the truth is 100x more shocking than a mere sentient smart ship.

Of all the info in that thread that you quoted, this is the word that creeps me out the most of all.

"Parasitology,"

Three possibilities here:

1) The gentleman is an expert in parasitology, but that's not actually what they wanted him for.

2) To help research the occult parasite theory further.

3) They are interested in things lie Toxiplasmosis, where an organism in cat litter can mind control
a mouse, to prance in front of a cat without fear, to be killed and eaten, and thus to continue
it's lifecycle.

Not believing in accidents, one way or another, it would seem that mind control is a major interest..
no surprise there.

Kev

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: Willtell

I've got some answers from here and there, but that's pretty complicated and we'd also have to define his research a bit broader than UFO but overlapping considering his Interdimensional Hypothesis.

He did a lot with his own money from books and such. But from his time with J. Allen Hynek there were various funded projects. Then there's the Stanford University and SRI stuff. It would be a long list including Robert Bigelow.

In other words; genuinely interested but had a leash around his neck. Clearly he was a very useful resource to have around then and now.

On a side note. How genius it is to cloak your best tech under the veil of woo and off world happenings. But to further railroad the search for truth by constantly Mish mashing the two and dump BS half truths all over it, the ability to truly understand either becomes unachievable.

Further goes to show how all this technology we use and is used against us, came from our good friend here. Scary to think that the architect for the internet and our ability to discuss here on ATS, is also heavily involved in Black ops and woo woo.

a reply to: The GUT

Beautiful post.

"Has Jacques Control System theory been hijacked? If so can we trust those who did? The literal weaponization of myth and narrative?"

Myth and narrative has always been weaponzied. Christianity for example. If you read from the sparse accounts still available from Pagans, before Christians took control of the narrative (killed the pagans and destroyed nearly all their written works)

you'll find references from the last egyptian high priest who said, "there has never been a god who was born a man"
then something about how the stars are gods. That was the egyptian belief system. But these kind of refreences
have been scrubbed from the world by the Christian control loop...(not referring to anything mystical necessarily).

This is one example.. of course with Trump, and his ability to destroy all facts and to make blatant, known
lies the "new and eternal truth" retroactively.. we seen that sort of thing more and more.

All of us try to pass our mythology off in a way that influences others behavior.. it's what humans do.. try to sell
others on their personal BS.

Now, are there mass efforts from the letter agencies to use this? In conjunction with game theory and simulations?
Of course. I even have a link for it somewhere...

What interests me are nested control loops. When the deceivers are deceived.

Here's a thought for you:

wouldn't it be fascinating if a skilled programmer (like Jacques) had spotted "machine code elements" in one or
more "control loop segments", that people weren't aware WERE control loop segments?

there are many levels at which this observation would be fascinating.

Kev

originally posted by: Willtell

Thanks...

If I may indulge you again.

What was the deal on he and Hynek giving that computer over to Bennewitz

Any info on that caper?

Was that part of his research?


Btw anyone can take a bite of these questions

Only since you asked because It's primarily from Bill Moore, so we have to take it with a grain of salt, but it is information that deserves to be included in the mix I guess because...Bennewitz.

I also suggest that a rereading of Messengers of Deception is a worthwhile and timely endeavor in light of all the various stuff that has been revealed, written, and researched about the matters discussed here in the intervening years.

I was rather surprised, a while back, when ATS member and researcher CardDown sent me the text of an email from Bill Moore to Saucer Smear circa 2000 that also suggested a careful rereading of Vallee's Messengers of Deception. The letter we are gonna take a look at casts aspersions on Dr. Vallee and throws a ball in his court.

NOTE: Item #2 below was one paragraph in the original, but I have broken it into 3 for easier perusal:

Saucer Smear Volume 47, No. 7 August 10th, 2000

Former ufologist WILLIAM ("Bill") MOORE writes:

"Several quick comments, which you may publish if you wish:

1. "Rick Doty is either mistaken or misinformed when he says I 'was paid' for such services as may have been rendered to AFOSI et al., in the early 1980s. While it is true that money was offered on several occasions, I never once accepted a penny of it. Therefore I can say with a clear conscience that everything and anything I might have done in this regard was entirely out of my own pocket.

2. "Regarding the Bennewitz Affair in general - two things which have never come to light and which might prove most interesting to ufoology are the roles played by doctors J. Allen Hynek and Jacques Vallee. It is not generally known that Dr. James Harder was involved (at least early on, although perhaps not later).

I personally know that Hynek was still under contract as a USAF consultant at the time, and Vallee had very close ties with the CIA and others (although what his obligations to them may have been, I do not know). For those still hoping to uncover some hidden treasure in this whole mess, here is a good place to begin.

Many of Bennewitz's bizarre views on abductions seem to have come to him as a result of Harder's involvement. Hynek's hitherto unknown forte had to do with providing Bennewitz a carefully crafted means of 'decoding' the supposed 'alien' transmissions he was intercepting. As for Vallee, numerous clues pertaining to his particular specialty can be gleaned by a careful rereading of his book 'Messengers of Deception'...

web.archive.org...://www.martiansgohome.com/smear/v47/ss000810.htm

Since Harder is mentioned and has been linked by some researchers with the CIA and ufological disinformation as well as being "thrust" at Betty and Barney Hill, I'll include some background on him as well.

Dr. Harder was perhaps best known as a prominent UFO researcher who has studied the subject for over 50 years, first becoming interested in 1952. He was Director of Research for the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO) from 1969-1982. APRO was one of the first civilian organizations to study the UFO phenomenon. When the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Science and Astronautics held hearings on UFOs in 1968, he was one of six scientists asked to testify on UFOs before the committee. In a 1998 interview, Harder said the subject was generally treated with disdain by the scientific community, but he was still one of about 300 academics who were actively investigating the phenomenon.

Harder was the primary investigator on a number of classical UFO cases, mainly related to alien abductions, including the 1973 Pascagoula Abduction and the 1975 Travis Walton case. He also took over the Betty and Barney Hill abduction investigation and continued it for many years. According to Harder, in about 95% of abduction cases he's studied, abductees report the encounter as positive, benevolent, and/or enlightening. He also investigated the claims of legendary CIA remote viewer Pat Price (who allegedly died under suspicious circumstances in 1975). Based on his remote viewing, Price believed aliens had underground bases at four locations on Earth.

en.wikipedia.org...

Link to Dr. Harder's statement at the 1968 UFO SYMPOSIUM AT THE US CONGRESS

There are more statements from someone (I don't recall) if I recall correctly about Dr. Hynek having a hand in the computer delivered to Paul. Maybe CardDown can help?

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Okay great, I was burying the lede and you didn't bury the lede...


You know a lot of these guys worked for the US army—DIA, or air force, or the CIA. Over the years even the navy had a hand in some of this…

In my research, of course um a little low key, keep things to the vest though tend to zero in on what’s important sometimes.

Anyway…

Sort of like the CIA and FBI and DIA when they get in the way of each other and end up investigating El Chapo, for example, the same target, all at the same time, often there are problems---a fiasco ensues, agents running over each other.

I figure in this UFO thing there’s the same things goes on there.

You have the air force, Army, DIA and of course our old friends the CIA

Each of these characters we’re dealing with, I figure, are associated with one or more of these agencies.

Take our old friend, Andrija Puharich, for instance, originally worked for the US army. Eventually he ended up working for the CIA---grew embittered over the years with the CIA, and according to the known information became paranoid, actually John Alexander told me here on an AMA that Puharich turned into an extreme paranoid thinking the CIA was gunning for him.

He died alone, and afraid of the CIA while being evicted out of his last sponsors mansion. He supposedly fell down the stairs.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

I'd say that the chinese and russian hackers always have our best technology at all times,
due to the USA cyber ineptitude (i'm in information security as part of my job).

That the gubmit has "nearly or actually unearthly" tech is just part of the psyop.

This kind of mythological control system is genius.. it traps the minds of both
the dimmest and the brightest of the populace.

Kev