Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: Guest101

The Cometa report does not provide any evidence for the ETH.

No known report provides any evidence for the ETH, as there is no evidence for it.

People see unidentified things.

Sometimes people get fried with radiation or non-ionizing radiation.

But that hardly "proves" anything.

There is more evidence that my cat is an alien creature from Reticuli Zeta.

He doesn't come when called. He doesn't understand English. He takes what he wants
and shows me no respect. He acts in non-human ways and is mysterious.

Humor. But true too. That's more evidence than the ETH has ever garnered.

(I've talked to the guy who tracked a retrograde orbit "UFO" almost before we had a space
program.. the virtual father of modern UFOlogy.. and he doesn't find any evidence for
the ETH. He's been at it, with unparalleled access, since before most of us were even
alive.. that's why he developed other theories).

Now, when the government goes to enormous lengths to convince someone that little green
men are involved, say Bennewitz, then THAT sort of thing makes one ask the sort of questions
like are asked at ATS.

I'm not a UFO coverup scholar like MM and The Gut, but one does not have to be.

I'd like to know about this vast pool of evidence you have for physical craft with biological
aliens?

I'm not arguing that people see things, and that sometimes there are physical/physiological
effects. Just like a bolt of lightning. You can see it, and it affects you. But it's not there
physically in any meaningful sense.

Discuss.

a reply to: Guest101

Excellent observation. BOTH sides fail to come up with undisputable evidence.

originally posted by: SacredLore
a reply to: Guest101

Excellent observation. BOTH sides fail to come up with undisputable evidence.

there are just two sides?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Sometimes I wonder why it matters where it comes from. ET, dimensional, outside our cognition, [insert hypothesis here], etc.

Reminds me of 'ASL' in the early days of IRC, but perhaps I'm anti science in that regard?

originally posted by: zeroPointOneQ
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Sometimes I wonder why it matters where it comes from. ET, dimensional, outside our cognition, [insert hypothesis here], etc.

Reminds me of 'ASL' in the early days of IRC, but perhaps I'm anti science in that regard?

Well.. if you were to ask me, what my ultimate theory of "reality" was?

Almost certainly one of the following is true:

1) We are in an ancestor simulation.
2) space/time is an emergent property of quantum/"hilbert space", so effectively the Universe itself
is a 'computer simulation'.

Everything repeats (stars/galaxies/presumably universes) die and are (presumably) reborn.

We are either assholz or not.. then we die.. rinse and repeat. Always dying.. always being reborn.

I do think there are species closer to the top of the simulation food chain.. for what it matters..
lets call them.. (drum roll) plasma intelligences.

I think we might run into them occasionally.

So we are ghosts, chasing slightly more real ghosts.

But that doesn't mean it's kosher to lie to us, to deceive us, for USA national security reasons.

And to lie to us, to make the mortgage payment.. that's just poor form. Boo hiss.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Or you could have reality with a simulated layer on top of it, but this view is more narrow I must admit (I like yours more).

Anyway, I understand what you mean. That mentality has the same effect as what they did in the middle ages.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I would say a postmodern Buddhist-type theoretical analysis

Then what is the goal of it all in context or out of context if you cant

The postmodern relates to the simulation aspect.

Now that word, SIMULATION is interesting.

Were basically copying something or naturally mimicking something

What does that actually amount to—in other words what is the meaning of “ were in a simulation”

simulation of what ?


Before you answer, I want to warn you I know the answer to these questions.

a reply to: Willtell

I'm not a post-modernist.

In scenario 1), it was valid to say "simulation".

In scenario 2), I was "sloppy" (on purpose) with my use of computer simulation.

Scenario 2 is not a simulation - it's the field of all possibilities expressed (for want of a better term)
in "Hilbert space".

Call it the infinite canvas.

So whether we are an emergent property,

or in a simulation underneath an emergent unlimited probability-matrix

it really doesn't matter, does it?

Addition:

Just to move the conversation along, so we can get back on topic faster:

I'm not a post-modernist (buddhish). nor a dvaitist/advaitist.

I can't stand the depressing "nothing is real" thing. Everything is gray thing.

My personal position is that *everything* is real, somewhere, sometime.
(even Jesus.. but not in this universe).

All the fighting and dying about concepts is so silly.

Discuss them? Sure.

But leave it at that.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

One meme to rule them all can be understood in multiple ways, but most of them are 'wrong'.

originally posted by: zeroPointOneQ
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

One meme to rule them all can be understood in multiple ways, but most of them are 'wrong'.

They are all wrong, for what it matters.

If everything is true (somewhere, sometime), then nothing matters.

All you can do is have fun and (hopefully) not be an azzhole.

It's said that "enlightened masters" are like little children.. and you can hardly
get sense out of them most of the time.

Now I don't like the enlightenment game.. but with even philosophical maturity
one can see why such a person might be that way.

I AM interested in proving how thorougly we are being lied to, and Im also interested
in chasing ghosts a little bit.

But if we don't have fun doing it, why bother?

Kev

a reply to: Guest101

Hello Guest101. Glad to see you in the thread.

Look at the hard facts in the elaborate introduction by Mirageman. It just paints a picture of a billionaire who wants to get to the bottom of the UFO mystery and who uses his money, influence, and contacts to get his hands on as much data as possible. Some of the alliances he created over the years were disappointments or led to conflicts and were terminated. His latest project is the To the Stars Academy.....

This view is a perfectly valid one if you take the current situation in pure isolation. Bigelow has had a long held interest in UFOs. He earned a lot of money and spent some of it on his interests. He even got a new storage facility paid with US taxpayers money. So good deal from his point of view.

From what I’ve read in this thread so far, the prevalent opinion seems to be that AATIP, BAASS, and related groups like the aviary group are part of an organized government operation that intentionally tries to convince Americans of an alien presence.....

What I would say is that 'organized government operation' is not the phrase I would choose. It's more a case of joining the dots and reading between the lines. There are around 2.5m people employed in the US Government. Many will spend their lives hardly ever thinking about UFOs while others will have their own private opinions about them with some believing they are alien spacecraft (like Elizondo suggested). In the US Navy,and in Congress it seems there are people who think UFOs are demons.

The 'US government' may have an official position of;

"The U.S. government has no evidence that any life exists outside our planet, or that an extraterrestrial presence has contacted or engaged any member of the human race....

But it doesn't mean that's a viewpoint of every single employee.

So you have people like those in the Aviary and others (so called whistleblowers) poking their nose into the 'paranormal' subjects. Some worked on strange things decades ago. They've been there since at least the Bennewitz affair which has some very unethical practices involved and a lot of disinformation. SERPO deserves a mention too. There is a loose group of people with their own agendas to misinform, disinform, study and possibly gain financially from these scenarios.

Bigelow has links to some of these people. Some worked for him at NIDS and remain close to him to this day. Colm Kelleher is on the board of To the Stars as well. Bigelow also restricted the flow of information from MUFON by controlling their funding. What happened to the Ambient Monitoring Project?

Then you have the personalities who treat ufology like it's one big sci-fi convention. Every UFO story must be preserved as such, "aliens are above us and all around us, read my book, see me in conference".

To sum that all up.

What I am saying is that there isn't an almighty evil US government department employing all these people to spread lies about UFOs and aliens. But there seems to be a group of personalities perpetually meddling in the subject with, perhaps, overlapping but also different agendas and interests. They could be personal and could be more professional agendas. From just observing what is said on social media to causing mental breakdowns in people like Paul Bennewitz. Of course some of it is also to create an entertainment franchise. Which is probably ultimately all that will come of the "To the Stars" Project. But we will have to wait and see.

ETA:

What we now have in the UFO community is a default position of distrust in anything the government says on the subject. But somewhat paradoxically a need to look for information from officialdom that supports their version of the truth.

a reply to: mirageman

An excellent response!

I 99% agree.

I suppose there is a little selection bias on my part.. because I have studied
MKUltra some ("paranormalish research"), Puharic (paranormal research),
know more about the works of the "sorcerer physicists" than most,
know the guy who revealed the pentacle memorandum, have been a member
of occult groups that were monitored by the government, etc. etc.

Now, does 99% of the U.S. government have nothing to do with this stuff?
(some number like that, or more), i'm absolutely certain of that.

But that remaining 1% (say) is very disturbing. Less than 1% of the government
stuck radioactive material up the noses of soldiers, or didn't treat them for
syphilis, or dumped '___' over LA.

So small in percentage .. but very psychologically compelling.

The other part of my disagreeing with you, is that I know for a fact, that at least
*some* actual, possibly ground-breaking research is being done on the "antennae
effect".

But the rest may be pure fluff.

It's always strange, how a tiny sliver of truth is at the heart of some really B.S.
stuff.

So there -- we may disagree 2% in total; not a bad level of agreement.

Wonderful thread. I've learned far more from you, than you'll ever learn from me.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I assume you are referring to precognitive remote viewing to locate future events when you tal of antennae?

originally posted by: ctj83
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I assume you are referring to precognitive remote viewing to locate future events when you tal of antennae?

My take on the "antenna effect" may not be precisely the same as the researchers' take on that term.

I think there has been enough material floating around in this thread and other threads, to safely say that
the "researchers" are looking for evidence in the brain and body, that shows the effect PSP events/creatures/UFOs
can have on observers. (PSP=Precognative Sentient Phenomenon), and want, if possible to replicate this, so that
they can turn regular people into "URI Gellers" (yes, I know he's probably 90% quack... but THEY believe in him).

Uril Geller could supposedly do various things, that would make government spies and scientists (who are
open-minded and looking for new physics) go weak in the knees.

Now in MY personal experience, this "antenna" is the result of various meditative practice, especially those
practiced by some very arcane Kundalini Yoga cults. It is said, that upon reaching "enlightenment", the
"golden power" cracks open the top of the head around a certain suture.. (sounds wild I know)
but I've experienced this first hand. Now what happened to me is debatable.. I certainly don't FEEL
enlightened, LOL.

But the fact that some of these people are researching something very much like something that I'm
relatively an expert in, does give me pause. I personally think that they don't know precisely what
they are doing, but then they (at least some of them) are scientists, and I strictly speaking am just
a technologist.

So I wish them well.

In closing, to answer your question.. the publc line seems to be that this Antenna research is to
help Roberg Bigelow to find crashed UFO remains..to scoop up the technology.

Well, given what I know (about my own experience anyway, I can't speak for those guys), that's
either "cover" or he really believes that, and he's being played. (RB that is).

But no matter the motive, I wish the researchers well, and hope that if they find something,
that they find a way to leak it to the world, at least after it's made RB a lot of money.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Your Doppelganger was here earlier young Kevin. I assume you are back to your good self now?

The other part of my disagreeing with you, is that I know for a fact, that at least *some* actual, possibly ground-breaking research is being done on the "antennae effect". ...

Well actually I just didn't mention it. Although it was mentioned here in the OP.

This is what I find most intriguing.

What exactly does it point to? Something metaphysical perhaps?

Over to you Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
Now in MY personal experience, this "antenna" is the result of various meditative practice, especially those practiced by some very arcane Kundalini Yoga cults.

Also the ingestion of such things as marijuana (some strains more than others), which contains a chemical stew that can produce a dopamine burst. Or so I've heard. It'll be interesting to see somebody isolate the responsible chemical when they finally make the stuff legal across the board.

a reply to: mirageman

Frankly, I wouldn't have minded starting a new profile, and walking away from 50% of
the baseless woo I used to go on about..but i guess it can't hurt to demonstrate that
"woo disease" is difficult to walk away from.. it's taken me something like 55 years
to find my balance, relatively speaking. You know that 25% of the people who get
this stuff die (according to KG), so I'm not doing so bad!

When I was in the Kundalini cult, we'd get letters from people "dying of Kundalini arousal"
(or conversion disorder.. however you want to put it... I don't care).

Basically EVERYONE goes insane, when you make those brain changes.. supposedly in deep
dark metaphysial history, various "Tao Immortals" and the like, "awakened" without
corruption, but I don't believe that.

Also, calling the process "awakening" is really generous.. it's a physiological disturbance..
which tends to give one hypergraphia (I had it), and sometimes you get "paranormal
abilities' too. Or seeming paranormal at least.

But yes... there was some difficulty with my original profile and I came back right into
the middle of a mini ban/moderate storm, and ACCIDENTALLY got mixed up in that.

All is well now.

For a more "conventional" look at this subject, I'd highly recommend the very rare book,
"electric UFO's" by Budden.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
Now in MY personal experience, this "antenna" is the result of various meditative practice, especially those practiced by some very arcane Kundalini Yoga cults.

Also the ingestion of such things as marijuana (some strains more than others), which contains a chemical stew that can produce a dopamine burst. Or so I've heard. It'll be interesting to see somebody isolate the responsible chemical when they finally make the stuff legal across the board.

Seratonin overproduction is an important part of the process, as well as Testosterone.
There's a reason that yoga practictioners were supposed to be celibate, and were nealry
always male.

In the far past, people started wars to learn "arcane information" like this.. I agree.. that someday,
part of the preparation process may just be popping a pill.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

So reading between the lines. Are you saying that this 'ability', 'altered state' or whatever we choose to call it has been studied for decades and often led to mental instability because we couldn't always control it. But now we may be able to control and stabilize it?

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

So reading between the lines. Are you saying that this 'ability', 'altered state' or whatever we choose to call it has been studied for decades and often led to mental instability because we couldn't always control it. But now we may be able to control and stabilize it?

It has been studied for over 5,000 years. No BS.
There are ancient texts written over thousands of years.. some of which we still have..
This is the "secret of the ages".. the "inner power that makes one a god" that
is mentioned in the Vedas, the Tantras, in Kashmiri Shamanism, etc. This is also
called the philosopher's stone of internal alchemy.

Interestingly, in a few cases, people just fall out of a window and on their head.. so
all that meditation is just ONE way to awaken it.

But yes.. this is the deep, dark secret of the human race.. that over the millenia,
a few people have success with this, and re-wire their brain.

This is the thing which starts most religions.

But more often than not, it goes bad.

This is what those UFO researchers are REALLY playing with.. but are too ignorant to
know it.

Not surprisingly, apparently non-ionizing radiation and other factors, such as chemical
ones like Blue Shift mentioned can get you part of the way.

Now.. to quite the dark emperor "you (I) am ignorant about a great many thingssss..."

I would like to see a collaboration between the UFO scientists and the yoga experts
on this one.. only there may be maybe 3 living people who still know this stuff..
on a scientific basis anyway.. the usual practictioners are so deluded by the religion
that wrapped this up.. that they really know nothing of value.

Kev