NYT Bombsell: Papadopoulos not Dossier Behind FBI Launching Investigation

So it turns out this Greek guy in the Trump campaign boasted to an Australian diplomat about Russia having dirt on Hillary. It is likely this guy was a Democrat operative whose mission was to say to an Australian diplomat this so FBI has casus belli to investigate Trump to collect intel to help Hillary in the election.

www.cnn.com...

a reply to: afatos

Well of course! To trump supporters every single piece of evidence against Trump is directly from a cabal set to overthrow Trump, and everyone is in on it.

The Trump supporters on this are absolutely positively pathetic.

Know why?

Mueller is about the straightest possible arrow this country produced, look at his background and it's more impressive than any politician today, his investigation is ongoing, no final results, and yet .....

The Fox-RW has already decided that he is part of a coup.

Trump has never said a single solitary word against Russia, not one, despite the fact that they've almost run into our airplanes AND our entire intel community, and OTHER COUNTRIES intel community's knew that the Russians were acting to assist Trump long before he won, meaning that evidence is NOT a made-up part of a coup, it's evidence to be evaluated.

But, they're all wrong. And the man notorious for lying ("I never said climate change is a Chinese hoax," "Obama bugged Trump tower, sick man!" - wrong ...and on and on) the man known as a notorious liar prior to even RUNNING for office, the one who's kid said their portfolio is heavily Russian, then says he has no business in Russia, the one who won't release his tax returns, THAT guy is telling the truth!

The guy who has not investigated whether Russia hacked into our election databases - even though just b/c Russia DID hack our databases, just bc they DID want Trump and DID run ads and put out lies, just b/c Russians DID all that doesn't mean he necessarily colluded, or is not the properly elected president - yet he refuses to investigate and address it, HE is telling the truth!

You can't wait to even see the report? If he's innocent, that's what the report will show. If not, it won't, if there's not enough evidence either way, he won't be punished or have consequences. Mueller has never played anything but straight up. He's a republican, that Republicans supported when he was named. But NOW he's running a coup?

Sounds like some people know there damn well IS evidence of Russian involvement with Trump, and people deciding already to kill the messenger.

Me? I know which way I THINK it will go, but absolutely will wait to see what is found and am ready to accept the fact that he may be fully cleared. I hope so, b/c it means Putin has far less influence than the other way around.

originally posted by: Scrubdog
a reply to: afatos

Well of course! To trump supporters every single piece of evidence against Trump is directly from a cabal set to overthrow Trump, and everyone is in on it.

The Trump supporters on this are absolutely positively pathetic.

Know why?

Mueller is about the straightest possible arrow this country produced, look at his background and it's more impressive than any politician today, his investigation is ongoing, no final results, and yet .....

The Fox-RW has already decided that he is part of a coup.

Trump has never said a single solitary word against Russia, not one, despite the fact that they've almost run into our airplanes AND our entire intel community, and OTHER COUNTRIES intel community's knew that the Russians were acting to assist Trump long before he won, meaning that evidence is NOT a made-up part of a coup, it's evidence to be evaluated.

But, they're all wrong. And the man notorious for lying ("I never said climate change is a Chinese hoax," "Obama bugged Trump tower, sick man!" - wrong ...and on and on) the man known as a notorious liar prior to even RUNNING for office, the one who's kid said their portfolio is heavily Russian, then says he has no business in Russia, the one who won't release his tax returns, THAT guy is telling the truth!

The guy who has not investigated whether Russia hacked into our election databases - even though just b/c Russia DID hack our databases, just bc they DID want Trump and DID run ads and put out lies, just b/c Russians DID all that doesn't mean he necessarily colluded, or is not the properly elected president - yet he refuses to investigate and address it, HE is telling the truth!

You can't wait to even see the report? If he's innocent, that's what the report will show. If not, it won't, if there's not enough evidence either way, he won't be punished or have consequences. Mueller has never played anything but straight up. He's a republican, that Republicans supported when he was named. But NOW he's running a coup?

Sounds like some people know there damn well IS evidence of Russian involvement with Trump, and people deciding already to kill the messenger.

Me? I know which way I THINK it will go, but absolutely will wait to see what is found and am ready to accept the fact that he may be fully cleared. I hope so, b/c it means Putin has far less influence than the other way around.

Russia bad. That's the mantra. As a Chinese, I love Russia and I hate America. The way you Americans hate other countries is not the way to make friends around the world.

a reply to: afatos

I love other countries!

I love the Canadians, the Brits, the Japanese, the Australians, the French, the Germans, the Israelis, the people of India.

The Russian people aren't bad! Putin and his oligarchs is bad.

The Chinese people are amazing. They've made so much progress and been a stable necessary presence in Asia. Competition with the Chinese is fine.

Go ahead, love Russia. That's fine. But I sure don't trust Putin to do anything but attempt to make Russia more powerful than any nation on Earth and enrich his friends, with force if necessary.

Oh, and I know that the United States has done some indefensible things on the international scene over the decades, we are in no way perfect at all.

originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: onthedownlow
a reply to: theantediluvian

Your last paragraph- the guy was so excited by the info that he ran staight to a bar and shared the info with whoever he could, but he didn't share with his confidants

"So excited by the info that he ran straight to a bar" according to whom? That's a rather inventive characterization. Perhaps he took it as nothing more than a dubious rumor or he was waiting to see what developed before he brought it to Clovis/whoever. Maybe he communicated it some other way.

Oh, sorry, I was filling in the blanks. I guess it would be inventive to do that

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: 3daysgone

I have never bought that Trump colluded with the Russian government or for that matter, that the whole Mercer bunch (Bannon/Conway/Bossie/etc) that took over as Manafort exited, would have been involved in collusion with the Russian government.

I don't believe that the Trump Tower meeting with Veselnitskaya is significant either. Quite to the contrary, I think it's just an example of Veselnitskaya and associates doing exactly what they had been doing with various members of Congress in the same period. The information she was peddling wasn't a product of the Russian IC (at least not directly) — it was produced by Fusion GPS.

It never really struck me as reasonable that the dossier was the reason for the FBI's initial investigation. For one, I don't think they would have gotten FISA warrants for Manafort and Page on uncorroborated raw intel from a couple of memos (remember, what became "the dossier" was compiled from something like 16 memos sent over the course of several months, the last 2 pages being added in December). In fact, if the investigation was launched in June, it really doesn't square well with the timeline. There's no evidence that anything Steele had collected had been shared with the FBI or anyone in the USIC early enough for it to have played a major role early on.

I do believe that there was a multifaceted influence operation conducted by the Russians. I also believe that the Russians stole emails from the DNC and phished Podesta. I have no idea what impact that had on swaying voters. I think there were attempts to gain influence within the campaign through some of the advisors (Papadopoulos, Page, possibly others).

I'm not sure about Manafort but would anyone really be surprised? He's been paid tens of millions of dollars in recent years for the express purpose of influencing Western governments on behalf of the interests of Putin and his associates. He's an absolute degenerate.

Beyond that? I think there will be some more indictments coming down from the Mueller team. I hope that includes some of these other lobbyists, including Tony Podesta. Ultimately, I expect that there will be no evidence of Trump colluding and I doubt that there will be enough put together for an impeachment on obstruction. The Dems might try, maybe if they pick up control of one house of Congress in 2018 but short of a "coup" among the GOP, they're unlikely to get the votes for an impeachment and it's hugely unlikely that Trump would be removed from office in any case.

It is posts like this that are hard to argue against.

originally posted by:
The "dossier turns out to be fake?" The dossier has never been presented as anything more than raw human intel.

Except by the FBI as evidence to to FISA court eh?

Not only to you push totally bogus nonsense but now you parrott nonsense outlets who spout bogus nonsense.

The FBI and DOJ kicked off a major investigation on a political candidate because someone said something dru k at a party?

Hah... Do you choose to ignore facts or is it a disability?

When will you admit the DNC used the FBI and DOJ as a weapon against a politival rival? You should go back amd watch Comey, Lynch and Mccabe testify to congress this past 18months. Perhaps you'll see how obvious this truth has been and quit the false russian narrative.

a reply to: theantediluvian


Collusion is not illegal. BTW..time to remove the Santa Claus attire from your avatar.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Yeah not buying this in the least. It is an effort to try and salvage the fake dossier bs and nothing more.

Sen. Graham gave an interview where he calls for an independent prosecutor to review the FBI / DOJ actions and pretty much stated the dossier was in fact used to get the FISA warrant. As I and others have said before if the Dossier is what was used the entire effort by the FBI/DOJ/Special counsel is done. Since the warrants were illegally obtained anything gained from them are fruit of the poisonous tree.

Trying to link it to Popodapolis is a desperate attempt to save the narrative. By using him the can say "look, we have this person who already plead guilty, corroborating whats in the dossier".

The longer this goes the worse the left looks and the more damage they do to this country all because they lost 1.2 billion dollars and rigged election.

The left has brought this on themselves and cant accept that reality.

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by:
The "dossier turns out to be fake?" The dossier has never been presented as anything more than raw human intel.

Except by the FBI as evidence to to FISA court eh?

Not only to you push totally bogus nonsense but now you parrott nonsense outlets who spout bogus nonsense.

The FBI and DOJ kicked off a major investigation on a political candidate because someone said something dru k at a party?

Hah... Do you choose to ignore facts or is it a disability?

When will you admit the DNC used the FBI and DOJ as a weapon against a politival rival? You should go back amd watch Comey, Lynch and Mccabe testify to congress this past 18months. Perhaps you'll see how obvious this truth has been and quit the false russian narrative.

You make a good point - if the reason for the FISA warrants was that a rumour was spread after a drunken evening in London then it is just as bad as using a DNC campaign document created in collusion with the Kremlin to trigger the warrants. Either way, this looks like a serious govt. overreach. Notice how the Democrats in Washington have largely gone quiet on Trump's alleged collusion? They used to be on TV every day droning on about it.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by:
The "dossier turns out to be fake?" The dossier has never been presented as anything more than raw human intel.

Except by the FBI as evidence to to FISA court eh?

Not only to you push totally bogus nonsense but now you parrott nonsense outlets who spout bogus nonsense.

The FBI and DOJ kicked off a major investigation on a political candidate because someone said something dru k at a party?

Hah... Do you choose to ignore facts or is it a disability?

When will you admit the DNC used the FBI and DOJ as a weapon against a politival rival? You should go back amd watch Comey, Lynch and Mccabe testify to congress this past 18months. Perhaps you'll see how obvious this truth has been and quit the false russian narrative.

You make a good point - if the reason for the FISA warrants was that a rumour was spread after a drunken evening in London then it is just as bad as using a DNC campaign document created in collusion with the Kremlin to trigger the warrants. Either way, this looks like a serious govt. overreach. Notice how the Democrats in Washington have largely gone quiet on Trump's alleged collusion? They used to be on TV every day droning on about it.

The first to attempts to get a FISA warrant failed.Their first application, in June, was rejected outright by the judge. They returned with a more narrowly drawn order in July and were rejected again. Finally, before a new judge, the order was granted, on 15 October, three weeks before election day. So claiming other information was used means the first two judges were not convinced. But something was used in October that convinced the judge. Most likely Steele document.

a reply to: Scrubdog

a reply to: theantediluvian

I mentioned this breaking news in another thread.

It seems that everybody can see this plainly. Except trump people.

Months before they should have known..
This explains the tweet from trump this morning with his number one hit.. Fake News..

Papadopoulos ...not just the coffee boy any longer.

Funny everybody regognized the problem Steele this Australian but no one in trumps legal team or foreign advisors seemed to see this as a problem.

Building this case step by step. Mueller knows much more than we know. He is quietly doing his job.

a reply to: 3daysgone

The dossier isn't fake. It's another brick in the case Mueller is building.
You guys can yell fake news all you want. In the end all that yelling isn't going to mean a thing.

It's becoming more obvious every day that Russia was in cahoots to get trump elected and that trumps team welcomed the information with open arms. Now we just need the reciprocity proof to show a conspiracy against our electoral process. I'm betting Mueller is quietly gathering that proof too.

2018 is going to be very interesting.

a reply to: onthedownlow

There's the Australian diplomat. Why isn't he a witness? He was part of the drunken revelation.

a reply to: stosh64

But he doesn't question it's validity.

originally posted by: darkbake

originally posted by: Christosterone
Jesus atlantean....

Y’all are all in on the Russia scandal....

So again, please explain how the Russians caused my wife, parents and I to vote trump...

Newsflash:
Hillary sucks

-Chris

So what gives you the idea that Hillary sucks, exactly? Did you read that online? Were you influenced by what you read online? The Russians propagated many false news stories about Hillary leading up to the election, and allegedly even hacked the DNC and released their e-mails in an attempt to discredit her more. Chances are, even if they didn't influence or amplify your anti-Hillary sentiments, it happened to some people.

Even if you read anti-Hillary stuff online that did not originate from Russia, it easily could have been influenced by disinformation or propoganda campaigns that started in Russia.

So hillary doesn't suck? Never has sucked and never will suck?

It took then awhile to come up with this excuse.

Besides, what has Papadopoulos to do with the Trump team?

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

So explain how trumps people knew about the hack maybe months before anyone else if they didn't get the information from Russia?
This just puts a bow on the package of secret meetings and back channel communications that support the notion that trumps team and trump are corrupt criminals.

originally posted by: Arnie123
Thought this was a bombshell? smh.

Nothing but he said, she said, anons galore.

It's a bombshell because they badly, badly want it to be true. And at the NYT these days, that's pretty much the bar for whether they go ahead and publish a story or not.

originally posted by: Grambler
And more questions I have.

I am not seeing anywhere in this article that Papadopoulos ever alleges to offer anything to Russia for these emails, or at the very least no suggestion that he told the Australian that.

So George tells this guy Russia has dirt on emails from Hillary. That's it, not that trump paid for dirt or anything like that.

Now keep in mind, people had been saying for almost a year at that point that Hillary's server may possibly have been hacked.

So the nyts assertion that NO ONE could have known about this is ridiculous.

If I was a russian scammer trying to influence someone, it would be almost par for the course to say, We have emials from Hillary.

Notice that neither here or in the dossier is it specified where the emails came from. The Russians and wvryine else in The world knew that Hillary had a shady server that people said might have been hacked.

Had The dossier or this guy told Papadopoulos which server they specifacly hacked, that would be more compelling evidence, but just saying we have emails is proof of nothing

So we are to believe that based on this drunk conversation with an australian, and that fact that Carter page went to Russia to speak at the same university that Obama did years earlier, that the fbi decided to wiretap people and start an investigation into trumps team.

All based on a drunk saying Russia has emails.

But what the fbi didn't do is ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE SERVER THAT WAS HACKED!!!!

It doesn't seem to make sense.

Agian, why is the fbi stonewalling the oversight committee on what they used the dossier for, and what they put in te fisa application.

The bollox is getting deep. Time for the serious wellies.