The God of Judgment Versus the God of Unconditional Love

a reply to: dfnj2015

I try not to understand God and his creation anymore, nor theeven with my fascination with the arts, because if there was one, it would be far beyond us as we could be to bacteria.

Yea, hindsight a bitch when it comes to karma and the dynamics of communication. People want reasons and explanations for the things that happen, and the god(s) were our ancestors attempts at explaining those odds. Thing is such perceptions become very ego centric, and will often leave us constantly self analyizing and contradicting our selfs to the random whims or instances of nature that would prey on our idea of what is just or un just.

Overall, my perception of God has shifted from personaifcations of God relationship with humanity, to a more etheral pov. My reason being, i would get a really bad tick, with a splitting headache.

In the broadest, most easily relateable sense, I believe in a God of unconditional Love.

However, I think our experience of that goes far, far beyond the emotion. Even in the human experience, "Love" is a nebulous term no matter how much we try to confine it to specific aspects of solely the emotion.

Its not accurate, but I think the most concise way to convey my perspective is to say that our diverse perception of Love (both the emotion and beyond) is the human experience of a force like gravity.

In that, it "means" many things to many different systems. And like most things, we tend to erroneously project the limited, specific human perception of those forces and events to everything and everyone else.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Text The other problem with eternal damnation is that it is cruel and unusual punishment according to our secular laws. Even murderers are not sentence to a life of torture and suffering. Having billions of people being tortured in Hell for all eternity is not what I would consider what a God of love would allow to happen.

Where in the world are people getting eternal damnation from and how exactly does that work with what Jesus teaches? Someone is not understanding all of this eternal torture thing all wrong.

a reply to: Seede

you punish yourself. God waits on you, not the other way around.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Based on human experiments, there is no amount of evil God will not tolerate in order preserve our free-will. God is pro-choice in accepting of all our behaviors. It appears our omnipotent God needs absolutely nothing from us and just does not care how we treat each other. And if we crap in our own beds, or treat each other badly, God just sit's back and lets us kill each other without stepping in. I don't think God is that much concerned about sin otherwise he would have prevented the bombing of Dresden in WWII. But as far as I can tell, even if he did, there are thousands of other times when unnecessary evil goes unchallenged. Not that I am judging God. I'm just saying God does not seem to be getting involved in policing the choices man makes.

What is also jaw dropping and stunning is how relentless nature is in carrying out the laws of physics exactly the same way every time. Every time I drop a ball it hits the ground. Every time! It seems our creator God created the Universe, set it in motion, and doesn't appear to be actively participating in the affairs of man.

The Old Testament disagree with you. God ordered genocide. God flooded human to the point of near extinction. God ordered Moses to stone a man to death just because he gathered wood on Sabbath day.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
As far as I can tell, God is not popping in and out of the clouds yelling instructions at people on how to behave better.

But God did popping in and out of the clouds yelling instructions at people on how to behave better, through His prophets and Messiahs.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Everyone is saved!

According to Jesus but I'm pretty sure many disagreed. They would argue salvation through works.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I think the God of unconditional love is a more accurate representation of how God behaves. God is pro-choice. Nature is relentless. And an omnipotent God needs absolutely nothing from us. Take all those together and here is what I believe an a God of unconditional love would be like in terms of salvation. After we die, a God of unconditional love would allow everything through the gates of heaven to experience eternal bliss regardless of our Earthly sins or how we practiced or not practiced our religion. Sins are conditions of love. A God of unconditional love would love each of us regardless of our sins. A creator God would love every piece of his creation equally because as creator, He is responsible for everything in His creation.

In terms of morality, to be closer to a creator God of unconditional love, then every person you meet you would treat as the most sacred and divine object on Earth. To be like a God of unconditional love, you would be loving and accepting of everyone you meet regardless of their bad behaviors. This doesn't mean you do not have boundaries in relationships. It's just means you stop judging people as not being worthy of love.

That's not true. God required sacrifice. And Jesus Christ had to pay for it.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
So good people, which God is right? Which God is more powerful? Is having faith in a God of unconditional love enough to get you through the gates to experience the prize of eternal heavenly bliss?

Having faith? Does such God even exist?

a reply to: EasternShadow

The Old Testament disagree with you. God ordered genocide. God flooded human to the point of near extinction. God ordered Moses to stone a man to death just because he gathered wood on Sabbath day.

You say The Most High ordered genocide? Depends upon how you understand what happened. I read this as God taught the Hebrews how to survive. In other words what would have happened if the Hebrews had simply sat back and accepted their own eventual demise and remain slaves to the Egyptians? Quite a different story is it not?

What would have happened if the moon worshipers of Jericho had been allowed to overcome the Hebrews? Or the Philistines allowed to defeat David. Quite a different story? To the victor goes the spoils? Not in your understanding you say? Could it be that you simply do not like the God of Moses? You have a bone to pick with God.

God flooded humans and almost wiped them out? What about God killed Giants, Nephilim, and Eloid races along with Adams race? Why? because all of them had degenerated to the point of no return. All had reached the point of sexual depravity as well as cannibalism and feared no god whatsoever. It was done to save His creation.

The man was stoned for theft and lying. He was a thief and a liar because he accepted the laws of God and then stole on the day that others were obeying that law. If everyone had acted in the same manner then God would have been the liar for not enforcing His covenant. Let's be clear about this covenant. No one compels anyone to accept an agreement with God. Almost all of mankind does not accept a covenant with God but if you do swear a covenant with God then you are bound by that agreement and will eventually be held accountable.

Example number one. Don't eat of that forbidden fruit or you will die. Example two. The soul that sins will surly die. That covers everyone does it not?

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: EasternShadow
You say The Most High ordered genocide? Depends upon how you understand what happened. I read this as God taught the Hebrews how to survive. In other words what would have happened if the Hebrews had simply sat back and accepted their own eventual demise and remain slaves to the Egyptians? Quite a different story is it not?

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"
How is killing infants, children, women and animals suppose to teach the Hebrews how to survive?

originally posted by: Seede
What would have happened if the moon worshipers of Jericho had been allowed to overcome the Hebrews? Or the Philistines allowed to defeat David. Quite a different story? To the victor goes the spoils? Not in your understanding you say?

My understanding is that God teach us to forgive our enemy.

Romans 12:17-21 ESV Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Matthew 5:43-48 ESV “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

God said, "Repay no one evil for evil.. " God talks about forgiveness and good deeds. So How did killing infants, children, women and animals justify such acts? Did God forgot his own words?

originally posted by: Seede
God flooded humans and almost wiped them out? What about God killed Giants, Nephilim, and Eloid races along with Adams race? Why? because all of them had degenerated to the point of no return. All had reached the point of sexual depravity as well as cannibalism and feared no god whatsoever. It was done to save His creation.

His creation were not only the Giants, Nephilim, Eloid and Adam race. Adam race did not migrate to Mesopotamia only. They migrate to Indus Valley, Australia and Far East. There are other civilizations far away from Noah and his tribe. What were their sin that God determined to wipe them too? What are God's Laws to them? What is the justification to punish others who know nothing about Abraham's God and beyond Noah's reach? God is justice and merciful but God isnt acting out of justification. He's acting out of vengeance.

originally posted by: Seede
The man was stoned for theft and lying. He was a thief and a liar because he accepted the laws of God and then stole on the day that others were obeying that law. If everyone had acted in the same manner then God would have been the liar for not enforcing His covenant. Let's be clear about this covenant. No one compels anyone to accept an agreement with God. Almost all of mankind does not accept a covenant with God but if you do swear a covenant with God then you are bound by that agreement and will eventually be held accountable.

Example number one. Don't eat of that forbidden fruit or you will die. Example two. The soul that sins will surly die. That covers everyone does it not?

So the punishment for theft and lying is stoned to death?

Paul wrote Colossians 2:16-17

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Then why didn't God condemn Paul as theft and liar to be stoned to death, as well? Why didn't God enforce his covenant to Paul? Paul clearly dismiss the importance of God's covenant he agreed to follow.

originally posted by: Seede
Could it be that you simply do not like the God of Moses? You have a bone to pick with God.

I do not like A Source that inspired Hitler to justify his HOLOCAUST. A source that demanded Yeshua to sacrifice himself and yet acting like a hypocrite hiding behind his own words.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: dfnj2015
Dfnj, why are you taking characteristics of what you presume the Christian God is and then asking us to explain your assumptions
Your comprehension of our God Is wrong
God is called Justice, merciful, Gracious, you can't be gracious or merciful if there is no wrath to be turned away from.

You have the right to your opinion. I was not making a claim about God or the way God is. All I said is I have faith in a God of unconditional love. My faith is my faith. It is not commentary on God.

Are you sure?..

originally posted by: dfnj2015
The God of Judgment:

The God of Unconditional Love:

I think splitting the two into separate entities will only serve to add to your confusion.

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: dfnj2015
Dfnj, why are you taking characteristics of what you presume the Christian God is and then asking us to explain your assumptions
Your comprehension of our God Is wrong
God is called Justice, merciful, Gracious, you can't be gracious or merciful if there is no wrath to be turned away from.

You have the right to your opinion. I was not making a claim about God or the way God is. All I said is I have faith in a God of unconditional love. My faith is my faith. It is not commentary on God.

Are you sure?..

Choosing my faith is my choice.

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

originally posted by: dfnj2015
The God of Judgment:

The God of Unconditional Love:

I think splitting the two into separate entities will only serve to add to your confusion.

No conditions.

The god of judgment is the god who has forgotten that everything is connected.

Christ taught us that The Kingdom of God is within us (Luke 17:21), that we do to Him whatever we do to others (Matthew 25:40), that God gives sunlight and rain to the good and evil (Matthew 5:45).

If hurting others is hurting God, because God is The Spirit (Unity/Oneness/Love) within us beyond the Mind (negative thoughts) and the Body (negative action), then God will know not to hurt anyone for all eternity.

The Body may die, maybe even the Mind (a second death), but Spirit which is Life and Love and Unity, is Everlasting and Holy.