This net neutrality move seems a good thing.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: nwtrucker

What I seem to get, in general, is the idea of zero control, complete freedom and zero to little cost. That somehow I should have the right to the fastest car, say a Corvette ZR-1 and it shouldn't be any more expensive than a Honda Accord. Is that an accurate analogy?

No that is not the right analogy.
The right analogy is that you PAID and continue to pay for a corvette ZR-1 with a chip in it that when the dealer wants more money from the Chevy manufacturer, they purposely slow down and convert your ZR-1 to a yugo.

You pay for example 80 bucks a month for 60mb downloads speeds from your ISP. Why should the ISP be able to PURPOSELY go out of their way to NOT provide you with what you are paying for and PURPOSELY slow down your speeds to 1mb. All the while they continue to charge you the full price for the 60mb speeds, but only giving you 1mb download speeds?

Hmm, so your saying I don't already know what I'm buying? That the actual Yugo isn't known? You know it, I know it. So we aren't buying a ZR-1 are we? We leasing the Yugo, not buying it.

If I really want the Vette and can afford it, I will buy/lease it. otherwise, I will settle for the Yugo....over the UN....for now...

First of all and as I mentioned above, please explain the UN connection.

Be specific. I really don't know what this internet control that you allege that net neutrality gives to the UN.


Secondly, the analogy would be that you buy the more expensive performance car, but the car company limits use of the car if they want after you buy it.

That is to say, The expensive car you paid for might handle better around curves, but if you drive around too many curves, the car company has the right to take that better handling away from you because you use it too much (even though you paid for it). I mean, how dare you make full use of that better handling you paid for.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: nwtrucker

Our interwebs are really the last vestige of freedom we have at our disposal!

Meddling or subverting such to be in line with a dying age, may contribute to changing the new information age in which we live in rather a nefarious manner and quite frankly be extremely detrimental to the progress of our species in ways we cannot yet imagine.

Stuff net neutrality because it's simply another tool in "There" arsenal designed to control and retard the free movement of information.

I get your point. I do.

So your telling me that we have net neutrality? That it won't continue to increase control and restrictions no matter what law is in place?

That giving control/power to the UN is a good thing? How? Please explain how? I don't get it?

I see the control fight as better with American players than adding in outsiders. Simpler. How about China? The EU? Any doubt they restrict and control.There very well may places where the net is less controlled than the U.S., but they would be the exception that proves the rule, from what I can see.

It seems that it's up to us to keep a balance. Constant alertness.

Every aspect of our communication system is controlled. Our media across the boards. So all I suggest is fight those that abuse the freedoms. Not the freedoms, themselves. The same applies to every easpect of our political system, from guns, to immigration...you name it. The abusers, NOT the freedoms.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I am not sure where you got the idea that the UN have anything to do with this, but I will just clear that up for you right away.

This is nothing to do with the UN, the UN have no say in it at all, never did, never have, and never will.

Might be wise to explain where you got the idea that the UN had any hand in any of this, unless you are just trolling of course, which would not be a shocker in the least.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Hmm, so your saying I don't already know what I'm buying? That the actual Yugo isn't known?

Majority won't but those that work in the car industry will now. you will only see that your corvette slowed down to a crawl and not understand why.

Verizon already did this to their customers. Their customers started calling netflix saying their service sucks and after neflix investigated they discovered that verizon was PURPOSELY slowing their traffic.

You know it, I know it. So we aren't buying a ZR-1 are we? We leasing the Yugo, not buying it.

Why aren't you buying the zr-1 and leasing the yugo? If you are paying 90K you buying the ZR-1 and expect to get ZR-1 performance do you not?

Well this gives them the right to purposely slow your performance to a YUGO and yet continue to charge you for the performance of the zr-1

originally posted by: nwtrucker


Educate me please, I'm all ears.

Imagine, if you will, a highway. It's a highway you've driven for the last 8 years with no troubles...the average speed is high, sometimes there's an accident, but most of the time you're driving at the speed limit...and you have no trouble changing lanes or getting off at whichever exit you want to take. And you don't have to pay for it, other than your normal taxes.

That's Net Neutrality.

Now imagine that same highway...but you're restricted to one lane, and that lane is clogged up with a lot of traffic. However, there are 3 other lanes with virtually no traffic...but you can't get into those lanes without paying a lot of money. Oh yeah and those exits you used to take without a problem...all of a sudden you have to pay for them too, or some of them...you just can't access anymore. Oh yeah, and the highway is now a toll-road, just so you can sit in traffic and move a long at a snail's pace.

That's the lack of Net neutrality.

a reply to: interupt42

That’s true. It’s pretty amazing to watch how democrats and repubs hear different dog whistles on the same issues. Like net neutrality, tax cuts for the rich, Obamacare, shrinking public lands, shrinking medical choices for women, more rights for weapons.

a reply to: nwtrucker

"I get your point. I do."

If you get the point then you must also see the dangers involved with messing around with the free flow of information.

"So your telling me that we have net neutrality?

Not complete neutrality per-say, but a modicum of freedom to do as we wish without being told otherwise by totalitarian technocrats with there own axe to grind and/or agenda to satisfy.

"That it won't continue to increase control and restrictions no matter what law is in place?"

So we should just sit back and do as we are told, peruse only the information "They" deem acceptable because it's going to happen anyway?

If it's not broke then don't try and fix it. Or worse attempt to control or subvert to suit a minority agenda.

"Every aspect of our communication system is controlled."

It's the degree of control that's in question though, and how "They" will use said control that's the issue.

a reply to: nwtrucker

If I really want the Vette and can afford it, I will buy/lease it. otherwise, I will settle for the Yugo....over the UN....for now..

Agree you should be able to purchase the product you want and get what you pay for.

however that is exactly what you will not get by killing net neutrality.

your ISP charges you based on what package you want and chose. I chose the 100MB download package and chose to pay the 80 bucks a month for it.

however, now my ISP has the legal right to not only not provide me with what I'm paying for but go out of their way to make sure I don't get it.

For example.
1. I paid 80 bucks this month to get 100MB download speeds.

2. Comcast cashed my check

3. I go to netflix and stream 4k video at my max download speeds of 100mb that I paid for.

4. Comcast says ok we need to improve next quarter performance for the CEO to get his 50M bonus check. Lets get netflix (who already is paying us to host their content on our servers for faster speeds) to cough up some extra money.

5. netflix says f u I'm already paying you our agreed amount.

6. Ok says comcast ceo, slow down traffic to netflix.

7. All the sudden I see my netflix 4k stream crawl to 500kb and constant buffering.

8. I call netflix and tell them their service sucks and to fix it or I will cancel my service.

9. Netflix tells me the issue is not with NETFLIX its with my ISP that is PURPOSELY slowing my traffic to 400kb. I say impossible I'm paying them 80 bucks a month for 100mb download speeds.

10. I call my ISP (comcast) and ask them why they are slowing my traffic to 400kb and charging me for 100mb download speeds. they tell me to bad we have the legal right to restrict or block your traffic since net neutrality was killed.

11. I say ok Fckers I'm taking my business else where.

12. comcast laughs in my face and says and who is this other imaginary Business you are going with that provides fast internet?

Comcast continues to tell me that they are very proud of the fact that they treat their customers like Sh1t and they have no choice but to take it , because they have made sure that their are no other competitors. That is why they have been able to stay in business for decades despite being constantly voted at the most hated company by its customer base.

13. I tell them ok Fckers I'm starting my own ISP business and will put you out of business.

14. Comcast laughs even harder and says you do realize we are an Oligarch with deep pockets and direct control of your local ,state, and federal gov't right. We will stop you before you even start, just ask Google with all their billions how far they got ,how much roadblocks they had to fight, and how much lobbying and money they had to spend and not even succeed in the end.

15. I go back to paying for my corvette and getting yugo performance with my tail between my legs and a fist in the air and comcast continues to laugh.

true story to come your way.

Firstly, I apologize for not having read the thread. : ( Waiting for coffee.

I am posting a video which might or might not have been posted, but it's a great explanation.

A simple way to think of it is that Obama did it, and Trump wants to 'undo' it, because that is what he does for entertainment. It also gives these large corporative providers multiple ways to make more money, I guess because he believes they need more of your money. (you might even need to buy new equipment to maintain what you already have). Anyway, watch this vid if you want a simplified version of net neutrality.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: interupt42

That’s true. It’s pretty amazing to watch how democrats and repubs hear different dog whistles on the same issues. Like net neutrality, tax cuts for the rich, Obamacare, shrinking public lands, shrinking medical choices for women, more rights for weapons.

yes its really sad . we really need to stop the insanity and protecting the DNC and the GOP who have done nothing right for neither side.

Meh.

This is reminding me of 2012 with all the Doom Porn.

Fact is: Life without the internet was just fine. If people end up not being able to afford internet access due to this, it will be the ISP's own fault, as people realize that you really do not need the internet to do just fine in life.

In fact, I can say with certainty that the internet has made me lazy, fat and living a much more sedentary life than before.

It's amazing (and very sad) at how many people scream that they can not survive without the internet. Some I do understand (a home owned business that depends upon it, or you're employed by someone who depends upon it). But for most of us, if there was suddenly no internet at all, we'd simply go back to doing things that we used to do pre-internet.

For you young people that never knew a world without the internet, guess y'all will have to learn how to do things the hard way.

You know: read a book, get up and actually do something, or even have to interact with people in real life.

oh the horrors.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: nwtrucker

If I really want the Vette and can afford it, I will buy/lease it. otherwise, I will settle for the Yugo....over the UN....for now..

Agree you should be able to purchase the product you want and get what you pay for.

however that is exactly what you will not get by killing net neutrality.

your ISP charges you based on what package you want and chose. I chose the 100MB download package and chose to pay the 80 bucks a month for it.

however, now my ISP has the legal right to not only not provide me with what I'm paying for but go out of their way to make sure I don't get it.

For example.
1. I paid 80 bucks this month to get 100MB download speeds.

2. Comcast cashed my check

3. I go to netflix and stream 4k video at my max download speeds of 100mb that I paid for.

4. Comcast says ok we need to improve next quarter performance for the CEO to get his 50M bonus check. Lets get netflix (who already is paying us to host their content on our servers for faster speeds) to cough up some extra money.

5. netflix says f u I'm already paying you our agreed amount.

6. Ok says comcast ceo, slow down traffic to netflix.

7. All the sudden I see my netflix 4k stream crawl to 500kb and constant buffering.

8. I call netflix and tell them their service sucks and to fix it or I will cancel my service.

9. Netflix tells me the issue is not with NETFLIX its with my ISP that is PURPOSELY slowing my traffic to 400kb. I say impossible I'm paying them 80 bucks a month for 100mb download speeds.

10. I call my ISP (comcast) and ask them why they are slowing my traffic to 400kb and charging me for 100mb download speeds. they tell me to bad we have the legal right to restrict or block your traffic since net neutrality was killed.

11. I say ok Fckers I'm taking my business else where.

12. comcast laughs in my face and says and who is this other imaginary Business you are going with that provides fast internet?

Comcast continues to tell me that they are very proud of the fact that they treat their customers like Sh1t and they have no choice but to take it , because they have made sure that their are no other competitors. That is why they have been able to stay in business for decades despite being constantly voted at the most hated company by its customer base.

13. I tell them ok Fckers I'm starting my own ISP business and will put you out of business.

14. Comcast laughs even harder and says you do realize we are an Oligarch with deep pockets and direct control of your local ,state, and federal gov't right. We will stop you before you even start, just ask Google with all their billions how far they got ,how much roadblocks they had to fight, and how much lobbying and money they had to spend and not even succeed in the end.

15. I go back to paying for my corvette and getting yugo performance with my tail between my legs and a fist in the air and comcast continues to laugh.

true story to come your way.

This is why we need competition and a truly Free Market. Keeps others in check.

a reply to: nwtrucker

nwtrucker, the best way to view the internet is as a data highway. Whoever controls the internet controls the flow of data. Do you want your highway controlled by a few dominant corporations that care mainly for the interests of its shareholders? Their interests are not the same as those who don't own the corporations. In the beginning of the internet, a loosely regulated internet was okay because the technologies were blossoming and there were a relative large number of internet providers. Over time, the technologies matured and the number of internet providers shrank to the point today where there is little competition in many regions of the country. Moreover, these dominant internet providers have been caught a number of times screwing around with data flowing along the highway. That is what led to a formal dictate of net neutrality. Ajit Pai of the FCC and others fraudulently state how this regulation is hurting competition and investment in the internet, when in fact the evidence supports the converse. Pai is straight out lying. Pai is simply trying to return control over the internet to the corporations. Ironically, deregulation solves no problem. The net neutrality provisions in recently in place place still were light touch regulation. Primarily, what net neutrality did was dictated that internet providers could not throttle or block data traffic, effectively mandating a hands off policy for data. How is this too big a burden to handle? It's laughable that internet providers would argue against this when people do not want corporate control over (their) data. Would you? Finally, it's important to note that internet providers already had devised a system to provide faster access of data over the internet through pricing tiers, i.e. 10 MBs for $29/month, 100MBs for $50/month, etc. In other words, consumers pay a premium for faster connections, faster data flow. It's all bullstank. Do not support the repeal of net neutrality. You will be screwed, not today, but ultimately. You can bet on it.

No matter the argument or the complaint, the idea that government regulation is the answer is fundamentally absurd. Net Neutrality is a euphemism for government regulated internet.

a reply to: eriktheawful

"Fact is: Life without the internet was just fine."

For you or me possibly, certainly more controlled and seemingly stable, but that was by design and control over the media and political institutions.

What about those born in to the world after the inception of our interwebs?

Keeping in mind that our world and/or respective societies functioned perfectly well before the likes of the industrial revolution or electricity.

Progress is preferable to stagnation any day of the week and twice on Tuesdays in my book.

a reply to: Throes

This is why we need competition and a truly Free Market. Keeps others in check.

absolutely agree as a libertarian!!

However, you have to ask why the so called anti regulation neocon GOP didn't go after those regulations that allow for those monopolistic practices to exist in the ISP industry. Instead they go after the only consumer friendly regulation that allows for a free market to exist in the internet ,which has successfully worked since the inception of the internet.

Funny they also failed miserably in over turning their number one nemesis Obamacare, but net neutrality they succeed in getting rid off. Just so happens who is winning with Obamacare and killing net neutrality? Weill in both cases its not the consumer its the lobbyist.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
As a lay person, almost a computer moron, I have little knowledge of these 'ins and outs'.

You've literally just invalidated your entire opinion on this subject with this sentence and should be ceding your opinion to more knowledgeable people. Unfortunately ATS doesn't work like that so naturally you feel like you should give your opinion anyways, and SURPRISE, you say net neutrality is bad because it is a product of the Democrats... Sigh..

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
No matter the argument or the complaint, the idea that government regulation is the answer is fundamentally absurd. Net Neutrality is a euphemism for government regulated internet.

Your right.

So is the constitution.

It's a stack of government laws that regulate.

The effect of net neutrality going away will be the government can legally sensor your information and charge high cost for the information you receive through their employers/lobbyists.

a reply to: nwtrucker

nwtrucker,

I should add to my post a minute ago that America invented the internet. It was paid for with taxpayer money. The risks of research and development were socialized, and today the corporations are privatizing the profits. So much in fact, that Americans pay higher rates for slower data flow rates (bandwidth) than many other countries. Eliminating net neutrality will ultimately result in yet higher prices. Do you want that? If not, please contract your congressional representatives to tell them that you support net neutrality. The battle to repeal net neutrality has just begun.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Throes

This is why we need competition and a truly Free Market. Keeps others in check.

absolutely agree as a libertarian!!

However, you have to ask why the so called anti regulation neocon GOP didn't go after those regulations that allow for those monopolistic practices to exist in the ISP industry. Instead they go after the only consumer friendly regulation that allows for a free market to exist in the internet ,which has successfully worked since the inception of the internet.

Funny they also failed miserably in over turning their number one nemesis Obamacare, but net neutrality they succeed in getting rid off. Just so happens who is winning with Obamacare and killing net neutrality? Weill in both cases its not the consumer its the lobbyist.

because their employers running the show?