This net neutrality move seems a good thing.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: darkbake

I didn't say you did/didn't have a choice from ISP's. You have a choice to turn it off, as do your neighbors. Equating the internet to electricity is a falsehood....better yet, 1st world problem.

Personally, I wouldn't like it (obviously) but lets remember that we still have choices. We are still in control of what services we use.

It doesn't work like that.

One job I had it was expected of me to complete online training and tests. I could have done that at work, on my time off or after work but that would have destroyed my already tight schedule and since the hours I worked were not your average 9-5 job it would have cost me a fortune on travel expenses.

It would have left me disadvantaged if I had no Internet, as it was I barely had time to complete that training.

That's just one example.

The Internet is so encompassing that I could create 1000 scenarios and not run out of new ones.

Do you know what happens in the modern world when companies, employers and employees turn the Internet off?

Things that take a few minutes end up taking hours.

Buying stock, wages, advertising, employment, expenses... All sorts of things are done online these days and they save 1000's of work hours every day.

The Internet has been a highly influential thing for business, I'd hate to see the state of things today without it and turning it off is clearly not an option for tomorrow.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: DerBeobachter

This net neutrality move seems a good thing

Sometimes i really have to check twice if i am really on ATS or on a satire magazine like Der Postillon, since that Trump thing.

That whole Trump thing ate brains, as it seems!

Maybe brain eating zombies are real after all.

They are at least at every major news corporation.

I'm honestly asking all opponents of net neutrality principle, what they are expecting from this "deregulation"? Less government or corporate snooping? Lower prices and better service?

a reply to: darkbake

Sorry, triple post? By the way, the internet serves as access to information. Maybe you could think of it as the modern version of a library, but much more capable. I compare it to electricity because both electricity and the internet are considered industrial revolutions. People living in the era where electricity was recently invented might ask, “Why is electricity considered essential?” but the benefits it has on society and the individual are quite obvious and to live without it puts one at a severe disadvantage.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

12 years ago if I did not have access to the Internet I would have been disadvantaged at school. My homework was online, sources for homework were online, even materials to further my studies were online.

They had libraries at the school but I had paper rounds, I wasn't giving up my job because the school demands that I access the Internet. Hell no, I studied from home.

I can only imagine the Internet is a larger part of education now.

Anyone who thinks the Internet is for memes and cat videos are a bit "off" with the reality of things.

My only 2 good choices for Internet in the small town I live in are considered terrible with their service. I was going to rate century link but didn't after I already found over a thousand complaints on a review site. My internet suddenly slows down whenever and often when I want to use it it seems. It's very annoying. My other choices are worse I've heard. The local cable company has complaints from everyone I've heard from.

At this point I'm hoping for better tech improvements or high speed low earth orbit Internet or something to cut out the big monopolies running rural Internet across the US so poorly.
Internet speeds and prices across most of the US are third world compared to certain other countries. I'm starting to think satellite internet might be an improvement over the stupid phone company service even with supposedly much higher lag times. I've recently seen speeds drop to less than 1 meg per second several times when I'm paying for 6 before this net neutrality passed.

If your business is online you can't just forget the Internet and do without it. I've been very unhappy with my service before the republicans decided to let big corporations decide its ok to throttle speeds or block access to sites by not allowing any speed. Now all I can hope for is more competition. I feel like I live in a third world isp area. A few times recently my service just dropped and my speed was less than .5 meg per second download. That's century link service for you.

Took a whole week to schedule a service tech when service went down a few weeks ago. They said be there from 8am to 5 pm for service visit. Guy called in morning saying he was going to try to make it out. Called again about 5 pm saying he wasn't going to make it. Did same thing next day except at 430pm called and said faulty equipment found back at the office. Should be working now. It was. He never even showed up at my house.

That is terrible customer service. I'm looking for a job as well and you can't do that very easily without the internet unless all you want to do is flip burgers. Everything is online now.
If I knew for certain I'm not going to move, I might try cable or satellite internet. I heard cable internet in my area is worse than dsl though dropping routinely. Monopolies don't have real competition or they would lose all their business across rural America.

If prices start going up or speeds start dropping, this could kill republican chances of winning elections catastrophically in my opinion. I think I will check to see if Dish offers phone and Internet. Actually I could drop the phone. Problem is satellite charges for a set amount of data while phone and cable are unlimited. Less than 1 meg download at times is very frustrating.

a reply to: RAY1990

It doesn't work like that.

Sure it does. You'll not cease to live without the internet. The internet is not holding back nefarious forces that seek your demise should it be turned off.

Yes, it makes all of our lives easier, it has been a boon to mankind and arguably a curse as well. Turning it off in tandem to get the message that you won't be controlled is my premise. However, given the state of counter arguments I'm seeing, it's already taken firm root.

I rely on it just as much as anyone else. Doesn't mean that it's entitled to me, and for now, I'm not obligated to use it.

a reply to: orionthehunter

There should definitely be more competition, but the big ISPs have a monopoly on the infrastructure ($400 billion of which was paid for by taxpayers). In the UK, the government forced the major ISPs to rent out their infrastructure at cost to competitors and that brought competition, which resulted in lower prices and better service. Right now, the infrastructure costs make it cost prohibitive to start a new ISP.

There are other reasons new ISPs are hard to start, it is something worth researching, maybe it is a problem that can be solved.

a reply to: JinMI

Sure it does. You'll not cease to live without the internet. The internet is not holding back nefarious forces that seek your demise should it be turned off. 

No, without Internet I will not die. That's correct.

But that's just an ignorant statement. Companies 50 years ago could've boycotted the engine too and resorted back to horse and carriage. What do you think would've happened to them?

Yes, it makes all of our lives easier, it has been a boon to mankind and arguably a curse as well. Turning it off in tandem to get the message that you won't be controlled is my premise. However, given the state of counter arguments I'm seeing, it's already taken firm root. 

You didn't get the message did you?

A person working a 60 hour week and attempting to raise a family should find a few hours to do some banking, if both parents work then so what? You best find the time to buy groceries, complete that insurance, pay those bills.

People have all the time in the world don't they?

I rely on it just as much as anyone else. Doesn't mean that it's entitled to me, and for now, I'm not obligated to use it.

Clearly not because you don't see how it's an integral part of society today. 50 years ago some people lived a ten minute walk away from work, others would've had to walk for 5 hours. Now, what kind of a chance at success would a person having to walk 45 miles have had in a workplace?

I didn't say anyone was entitled to the internet, I was stating that your average human in a 1st world nation is left at a huge disadvantage without the internet.

Most jobs are advertised on the Internet.

a reply to: darkbake
In CZ situation is even more "decentralized", there are many backbone providers + efficient peering on ISP level. It is almost model for free market where nobody have monopoly and government have minimal control. This equilibrium is based on net neutrality.

We, as ISPs are competing in packet movement and its contents should NOT BE OUR INTEREST because
its simply stalking.

How is this notion "for government control"? it is more like: There are no nobles and every packet is equal to other. it is democracy ...

a reply to: RAY1990

Exactly, it is same cause as public education.

Hey swamp dwellers, you have to prove to be competitive members of society and may be then you will be rewarded by fresh water pipeline, sewage system, later school for cripples (what you - swamp dwellers - are) and may may maybe internet connection. This debate was led in Europe in 18. century.

What is really sad is: Such arguments are recycled in 21. century.

Hey, folks ... in reality quality internet connection to every sleepy hole in US is less then half of Pentagon annual budget.

Try to stop bombing rest of the World and build your own infrastructure as any body else ...

a reply to: RAY1990

No, what is ignorant is clamoring how much you need something then in turn demanding that you have it delivered your way.

Rephrasing that abit; it doesn't work like that.

What's more ignorant is the attempt claim that the world should stop so you can do things. The world doesn't open up so you can succeed, you need to do that yourself. Unless you're extremely lucky that is.


The whole point and only reason I'm participating in this thread is to outline the fact that folks think they 'need' the net. Which, in some cases, they very well may. I don't claim to know other folks situations. The big corps are counting on that. So you can bitch and moan about it all you want but they KNOW that you're still going to pay that bill because, hey, you "NEED' it.

a reply to: JanAmosComenius

What's that? Decentralized? Like a network? Interesting.


"Necessity is the mother of invention."

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: JanAmosComenius

What's that? Decentralized? Like a network? Interesting.


"Necessity is the mother of invention."

In fact it is decentralized. Even US top level domain registrars have physical root servers all over the world. It is possible to cut out USA and Internet will work.

originally posted by: nwtrucker


Ok, now the other side of the coin. The big greedy corporations. That they surely are. Yet, to this day, I can find alternatives to AT&T, Verizon and the rest of those bastards. Cheaper options to TV connections, internet service. Where the big boys seem never be able to shut down innovative thinking, ways to do it as well for cheaper. My examples are correct? Yes? No?

Most consumers are dissatisfied with the Big ISPS that dominate the market now.
Where are the alternatives now since that is the case?

The Mega Corporations are the Globalists and NWO crushing out the little guy.
Who do you think joins the CFR and Bilderberg Meetings?
Small Business or Global Corporations and Banks?

a reply to: JinMI

No, what is ignorant is clamoring how much you need something then in turn demanding that you have it delivered your way. 

Again, I never claimed anyone needs the internet.

I claimed that people will have drastically less chance of succeeding without it.

It's due to how society is constructed, if you can't see that then I see no reason in repeating myself. As I said, to boycott the internet would be equivalent to boycotting the automobile 30-50 years ago or the train 100 years ago.

Yeah you can do it, but we don't all live in a Mormon society. So at the end of the day we are at whim to the standards set out by society. If everyone is using cars then a horse is not going to get you far.

The whole point and only reason I'm participating in this thread is to outline the fact that folks think they 'need' the net. 

I'll simplify it for you, it's nothing about need it's about want.

Society wants people to use the Internet.

If I left school and went about my education and employment in a world where I refused to use the Internet I would lose access to a lot of things.

My education would've been affected.

I wouldn't be able to apply for most jobs.

Sure, alternatives exist, news papers, open days, agencies etc but from my experience they expect at least some information to be submitted in digital format.

. So you can bitch and moan about it all you want but they KNOW that you're still going to pay that bill because, hey, you "NEED' it.

I'm not bitching nor moaning, I feel I've focused on points to debate with you, points that you refuse to engage with or even acknowledge.

I already said people can access libraries, they don't need to pay for Internet. Coffee shops are popular hey?

People don't "need" the internet, trillions a day doesn't "need" to be transferred via the Internet either... But it does, and your average person's prospects in life are hindered without the internet.

No. Removing net nuetrality is not going to benefit you, me, anyone else who uses the internet now or from now on.

Feel free to subscibe to a corporation that will offer you a slice of internet based on how much you are willing to pay them. Without regulations that describe how that may work. In the future.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Here is the thing nwtrucker , do you know who Verizon is?? Well these are the guys pushing for the demise of Net neutrality, do you know what they own under their umbrella?? liberal outlets like Huffington Post, Yahoo and a bunch of others, now that's just one of the giants, they can based off their, volume and potential audience, make life difficult for conservative thought, think about that for a second,..I'm a lib but I want unfettered access to the Net, as having an opposition opinion is a good thing.l

a reply to: JanAmosComenius

What is really sad is: Such arguments are recycled in 21. century. 

It's a good point though.

Guilds and unions, I can't blame anyone for attempting to protect their class or trade, ensure they have rights and privileges. It's already been touched on what negative effects such entities can have.

Unions end up in the government's hand just like Guilds did the King's, we all fought at one time for a want of more.

But things repeat.

Then came trading companies, they owned nations... Then came corporation's... What do they own?

I hope things don't repeat though, because that means eventually we'll need a revolution and they're rarely bloodless.

But at the end of the day, in the western world we put these governments there and if they consistently prohibit our own ability to create infrastructure whilst also not providing it or doing so at cost to us?

Then if that's the case they are not your government, they are working for someone else.

Freedom isn't free.

It's interesting the way they've tried to smear Net Neutrality as 'An Obama initiative'. Or linking it to the UN. Or all the usual sorts of tricks they try.

The plain truth on this one is Trump, the Republicans, and the FCC, have flat-out screwed people. They've handed immense power to the corporations and screwed consumers big time.

And you guys in America are already paying an insane amount for your internet anyway. I'm shocked how much your plans already cost.